Problem with brakes or front wheels or ?? I need as much help as I can get
Hi everyone! I had a problem. I almost wrecked my bike, I was lucky and didn't. Whew. I was at fault but so was the guy in front of me as we were going together as a group and I am the most newbie here (he is too but this is his second Can-Am) anyway, he stopped suddenly and I had no time to stop completely so I had to avoid him but hit 3 speed bumps (walls) really fast and hard. Other people do not think my problem is from this issue and that may be the case. The "accident" happened on the 19th. I rode the bike back to my hotel no problem (2 hours or more) and I rode around for 2 more days in Mexico City. I also rode home (3 hours) and noticed NOTHING. I wasn't paying alot of attention to be frank as the other more experienced riders thought my bike was fine, we stopped at the next gas station and checked it out visually. Checked the air in the tires, the back shock, everything was normal, no need for air in anything at all.
This I noticed today the 24th. I decided to go to the bank, it is a short trip, about 20 min away going easy. I came back after I noticed the rubbing sound, and a sound like keys jingling on the right tire, the left had a rubbing sound as well but much less pronounced. I came back and one of my guys here has been a motorcycle rider for a while now, of course nothing like this one! haha, he has taken apart my bike and put it back together (the Tupperware) to help install the new speakers I have, the bajaron sway bar, the belt guard, the skid plate (which took a hit in my "accident" but is still good!, and the leds that I have installed along with the separate fusebox. So he has learned very fast alot about this bike, which is helpful! We have never fooled with the wheels, brakes, or anything else "down there". Well after this I went and got him we rode around listening to it some and we both agreed something is not right. We came back, and he took both front wheels off and swapped them, and it still is the same deal. We also visually checked out all the parts that we can see, to me it seems that the rubbing is the brake pads but on the left tire it seems to be the ball bearings (if it has that inside the actual post the wheel rotates on) I have posted a video of the "accident" as well as the noise I hear on the wheel. I hope this helps someone to help me. I am over 3 hours away from the nearest dealer, they told me to drive it in, but I don't want to hurt my bike.
this shows the noise
my almost wreck.
Right now I am pretty depressed as I ride my bike daily, I love it, it is my only vice. I cannot live without it, and I hate my car now. Go figure, I have a pretty nice car too...a Nissan Altima. Go figure, I am selling the car.
These are my options locally maybe:
1. Brake person for cars?
2. Alignment? car place again?
Those are basically my options or
3. The Italika guy (our motorcycle joint here for cheap bikes) but not that cheap labor wise but not horribly expensive either.
I want to ride my bike, and use it daily....hehe so I am being a baby too...which I am entitled to be sometimes.....
I have a feeling that (remember I know nothing) that the "hit" made it go UN-aligned, and with that it is so bad that the brake pads are rubbing on both sides of it, the round donut, disc thing (the big one that I have found out is part of the brakes) is getting pretty hot from this rubbing even on small short trips (like this test trip where he took it up to 3rd for a few seconds) you can hear the rubbing quite a bit. Maybe it is supposed to get hot, but my guy (remember he only knows what life has taught him and he rides motorcycles some) says this doesn't seem right to him. But obviously something is wrong. My guy said that the back wheel is also making this rubbing noise, I am getting more convinced it is the brakes or something? Anyway I don't want to have to drive it 3 hours away (this is going 70 miles per hour) to take it in to the dealer if this is going to ruin something or kill me possibly too. If I can find a solution, we are both (me and the guy) pretty mechanically inclined, but we are not wizards either.
Any advice please? I am willing and ready to check it out 100%. Having it towed 3 hours away will cost me a fortune. So if I can help myself out that would be good!
Trying to diagnose a problem from a video is just guessing but here it goes. The noise does sound like a brake issue, I take it that you have looked to see if there was anything obvious that was bent in the front suspension so I would remove the calipers and spin the wheel, if the noise stops than it probably is not a brake noise and either something got bent and is rubbing (look for a shiny track on the rotating assembly) or inspect and/or replace the wheel bearing. I
f the noise is in the brakes inspect the brake pads for wear (How many miles are on your bike?) and replace if worn out and check your rotor for run-out.
My best guess from the sound is that you have issues with your brake pads.
If you can't do this work any decent auto or motorcycle mechanic should be able to.
Looking at your video of the incident I doubt that it caused any serious damage (other than maybe needing a clean pair of shorts) but I got a feeling that your bumpskid paid for itself.
Do you mean "would remove the calipers and spin the wheel, if the noise stops than it probably is not a brake noise and either something got bent and is rubbing" or don't you mean if the noise stops then it is most likely a brake problem? Without the calipers on right? Sorry, but what you said sounded wrong to me? Remember I don't know that much. I have 3000 miles on it. Yes I am starting to believe it is my brake pads. I took it in about 300 miles ago because I had the Brake Failure screen of death on it, I rode it 3 hours to the dealer and I got a funny look on my mechanics face when I asked him if he had checked them (the reason I took it in) but they were more worried about changing the oil/filter etc....and he said yes, he did, but I suspected they only checked buds and didn't really check the brakes. So tomorrow I will be checking this. Thank you so much! haha, I held on for dear life, and believe me it was not easy, I think I did a pretty good job of avoiding the guy in front, and staying on the bike. hehe, and yes the skid plate took some heat!
Last edited by beadaholic; 09-24-2015 at 08:01 PM.
Sounds like brake pads are shot. The rotor appears to have some scoring near the outer edge similar to the way mine were. I managed to get almost 12k miles out of my front pads and 14k out of the rear. I would change the pads since it appears like it's needed. I doubt the bearings are the problem. Good look!
From the videos, thanks for that, you were on the brakes as you hit the bumps but does not seem that drastic. Scary, no doubt. Know your guys can check to see if the discs are in anyway bent. The small disc with the square holes for the abs brakes should be checked as well. There is a sensor that reads off that disc and should not be touching or running on it. You can remove the calipers or run a putty knife between the pads and the disc to see if you are dragging the brakes or there is debris stuck in there fron that dirt patch. Berings you can check with the wheel on holding 12/6 and 3/9 and wiggle back and forth. If that is the sound on both sides I would check the pads for embeded gravel...jmo...
2012 RS sm5 , 998cc V-Twin 106hp DIY brake and park brake Classic Black
You mentioned that your rear tire is rubbing. That could be your "missing belt guard". Look for a shiney section on the left sidewall. The guard may have come lose or bent going over the speed bumps. Others have advised you about the front. Good luck.
I can't get the spinning wheel vid to play (but I am on the iPad, bloody Apple crap!! )
Buuut regardless, did you REALLY stand on the brake pedal when you tried to stop?? From the vid of the incident, it doesn't sound or look like you did. I couldn't see or hear the ABS kicking in, & if you'd stood on the pedal HARD it shoulda popped the foot board down (which makes a fairly distinctive noise - your Spyder does have foot boards rather than pegs, doesn't it?) AND the ABS shoulda kicked in (which makes a fast chattering thumping noise as well as makes the whole bike vibrate a little.) None of those things seem to happen, so if you did put all your weight & then some on the brake pedal & yet those things didn't happen there hasta be something wrong with your brakes, one way or another.
Now all that said, it really was a pretty swish 'avoid manoeuvre' you successfully carried out, but in the normal course of events, people tend to get a little sensitive about any noise or vibration after that sort of incident & save. So it could be that the noises etc are perfectly normal but you are hyper-sensitive because of the near miss - except that in this case the bike didn't actually make the extra noises you'd expect to hear during a full on panic stop on a bike with ABS & that sexy drop-away footboard; plus the fella in front managed to stop in time (fairly quickly too, going by when the brake lights come on & when he actually stopped) so you/your bike should've been able to stop as well!! These Spyders stop pretty damn fast under full brakes, much faster than any car & most other bikes & your evade showed you have pretty quick reactions, so I would've expected you to easily have pulled up in the same sort of distance he did.... but it took you almost 3 seconds more & triple the distance!!!
So, I'd be very carefully taking that ride to the dealer. Sure, check to see if you can identify the issue beforehand, but it sounds like the only mob around who are readily going to be able to properly identify an ABS issue with your Spyder & then fix it will be the dealer, & your bike is relatively new, isn't it?? Get it to them & get it checked/fixed so that the ABS does work & the footplate drop away let's you stand HARD on that brake pedal!!
if you really want to see if the brakes are working properly before you go, find a straight, level, & clear section of road & while travelling at a fairly slow speed (no more than 20 mph) with no other vehicles around, sit yourself down firmly on the seat, brace your arms, & forcefully STOMP HARD on the brake pedal as if you were REALLY trying to lock up ALL the wheels & see if 1). The footplate drops away & lets the pedal move further; & 2). The ABS cuts in & hammers away, letting the wheels juuuust keep turning so you can steer while still giving you max braking ability!! If those don't happen, that trip to the dealer is probably going to be the only way to get it sorted. Sorry
Good Luck
Ps, I doubt you'd hurt your bike 'any more' by riding it in unless the front wheel bearings are shot too, & others have mentioned how to check for that already. If the brake pads are already worn off or filled with gravel, the disc/s are likely already worn & damaged & will need replacing anyway, so the only real issue is to be very careful riding a bike with compromised brakes that far, not cos it'll hurt it anymore, just that you'll need to triple your braking distance allowances & be extra alert.
pps, I wouldn't worry too much about hitting those little 'speed bumps'; sure, not noice, but the back roads here in my neck of the woods have much worse potholes that are simply unavoidable.... and my Spyder has stood up to much worse & taken them all in its stride without any issues - there's even a bloke over here who's taken his thru some roads that regularly kill cars & 4WD's without any issues!! Tough things really, these Spyders, even if all the electronics do let them down occasionally!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-25-2015 at 02:29 AM.
Finally managed to get the spinning wheel vid to work, and that sound suggests strongly that you've got metal on metal as the disc turns. It doesn't sound or look like wheel bearings, but it does look very much like the inside of the disc is badly scored. I'd guess that you have either worn that pad out, either cos there was gravel or something caught in it; the pad material was dud & simply ripped right off during heavy braking some time ago; or you've got a seized brake caliper/cylinder there & once on it wouldn't let the pad move away from the disc, wearing the pad off prematurely.
You could probably get the local car or bike brake place to fix that, but you will likely need a new disc if not a new caliper plus new pads, and I'd really expect your ABS sensor on that wheel to be fried as well. With that in mind, If you can, get it to the dealer - it is probably a warranty AND a safety issue, so be careful. And hope that the dealer or BRP don't try to fob you off with the 'brake wear is your problem' story - but your vid of the incident seems pretty clear that your ABS wasn't working then, so this isn't likely to be something that's happened as a result of that; IMO it was there for at least long enough to prematurely wear a brake pad right off well beforehand!
Ride carefully & Good Luck!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 09-25-2015 at 04:35 AM.
As stated above a longer video of the wheel rotation with the camera would help a lot. Close up of the nut you showed and another with the tire off of the caliper as you spin it.
Working on videos to post in a bit, just waiting on my guy to be able to remove tires, jack it up a tad to rotate the tires and such with a tripod on the camera....I was using my cell phone before as the gopro perspective is so huge that the video might be not very good....don't know, learning to use the thing. hehe
Yes, to those asking about how fast I stopped. Of course remember the perspective of gopro, it shoots like way more than we naturally see. I feel that by the time I saw he had stopped I was more worried about not hitting him and feeling like I could not stop fast enough which has been something I have felt a tad since day 1. Remember I bought it used with 300 km on it. 2. This is my first motorcycle 3. Never rode or tried a Spyder other than this one which I bought without even trying it out. So I do not have any prior experience to draw upon. My brakes have always made this squeeling noise. I did not stomp or stand up on my brakes. I just braked as you would in a car, without loosing control which could happen if I stomped them I think. I evaluated the situation as best as I could and at least I came out of it in 1 piece (not being defensive) but just stating how I felt. I think I need to find somewhere where I can go and really push my envelope and stomp, and stand, and just be rough as I can be to see what I can do with this. Like make a line on the road somewhere and go at it and stop fast and see and learn.....I worry here about gravel, rocks, speed bumps and such, we have alot of that here.....everywhere. One area I go through to get in and out of my place, paved road suddenly had like 3", 4", 2" and gravel like river rock all over it, who knows how it got there, but it is there, makes me want to take a broom to it to clean it off! haha. Anyway the guy stopped very fast instead of slowing down like he was supposed to do, and he stopped completely in the middle of a highway (not a road) we were traveling at 120km plus or minus. Maybe due to me never having driven another Spyder I am unable to stop as fast as others and I don't know it. I learned at a later date from my dealer (being my RT is like the only one in all Mexico that is SM6) that this particular bike had issues from the get go and spent a 1 month at the dealer getting electrical problems ironed out (before I owned it). Also as most have pointed out this "near miss" did not have anything to do with this problem, to much time passed afterwards and also I did not hit the speed bumps too badly to cause something to break most likely. I tend to believe more and more it is the brakes somehow.
I will take off the calipers, check the belt guard, take video with the tripod using both my gopro and the cell and show you guys the video that seems the clearest to me.
Looking at the wheels we feel they do not wobble, but we will take a harder look at this as well.
I need to know what a "STUB SHAFT" looks like, been looking at the pro caliber site pictures and can't seem to find it, can someone point me in that direction so I can verify if my piece is bent?
Anyway will be working on the videos now! Thank you everyone, this has been very helpful and I am sure I will get a better feel for what the problem is and be able to figure out what to do.
I think its an illusion because the way the washer it sitting on the axle and the cotter pin..JMO
I would look at the brake pads and possible the hub bearing.. But which wheel is it coming from? Not sure if the spyder has wear tab indictors like they did on cars and would make that noise to tell you your pads were getting low..
The way you brake hard may have contributed to the issue..
I think its an illusion because the way the washer it sitting on the axle and the cotter pin..JMO
I would look at the brake pads and possible the hub bearing.. But which wheel is it coming from? Not sure if the spyder has wear tab indictors like they did on cars and would make that noise to tell you your pads were getting low..
The way you brake hard may have contributed to the issue..
Keep us posted..
And you may be right. The washer may be scrubbing. It is interesting that the sound occurs when the washer is at 12 o'clock and that seems to be when it is closest to the stub. That is why I want ti see a better vid. Regardless a remove and inspection of part 28 + the bearings is what I would do. It will also allow a good look at the caliper.
Ok, I got more info. I am going to do another video as the gopro is just so far away! But hopefully it will help. After taking out the brake pads (my guy did this rather than take off the calipers he left to buy the right die to use on my wrench to get the screws out and I believe it is 10mm) Anyway, it stopped making the noise. It seems smooth to me. Here are some pictures of the brake pads. The pads seem fine. The disc is smooth to the touch, no groove that can be felt either. There is those lines you can see but no grooves.
Oh and I am happy to be learning more about my bike, it is ok that we are doing this even if it ends up to be nothing. Hopefully that is the case, and if not well we are learning to be our own mechanics...I think the pads look good, they seem whole with more life to them, and seem fine....(I think, but like I have said before, what do I know!? haha yikes)
Oh and the two lids for the brake fluid are full as well. So that is checked.
Last edited by beadaholic; 09-25-2015 at 02:47 PM.
here is the video that shows the hub not making any noise at all.
Do you think it is normal to be able to remove the brake pads without taking off the calipers? It did have the anti jiggle clip in there, and we took that off then slid out the pads without removing the calipers.
Ever driven a car and the brakes shudder when you brake ......Even shudder worse braking down hill , You can still ride it with warped discs. Pretty hard to pick up they are warped just looking at them. Im just guessing from the noise.
take and tape a yard stick or something fixed up close like 1/16" or a few MM away from the disk then turn it by hand and try to measure how warped it is.
did you ryde through any standing water like a mud puddle or something that is often what causes them to warp FYI avoid puddles.
Just had another listen I'm certain it's just the disc or pads. That other noise I'm hearing ..... Tell me that's just your hand belting the tyre? I can't view the next video .
Problem with brakes or front wheels or ?? I need as much help as I can get
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by beadaholic
)
