BRP's Trained Dealership Technicians

[SpydermanCT]

I had posted this on Brogers thread who has been plagued with slow service from his servicing dealership and probably BRP. The discussion had numerous comments about the reasons for this from it being the dealership fault to BRP's fault. I thought I would ask your opinions on the subject..


There have been a lot of comments about BRP and their dealers technical staff. Comments about BRP needing to step up to the plate and get the dealers they have in place staffed with trained certified technicians. Looking at these issues from an automotive dealership prospective (which is the business I have been in for over 40 years) I deal with the same problems. It's unfortunate but there are not a lot of young people getting into the trade. Vehicles are becoming so complex with can bus systems, computers, sensors on top of sensors that these vehicles can be extremely difficult to repair. There are no more plugs, points and condensers like the good old days. Trying to find skilled labor is extremely difficult. Not many getting into the trade and the good people are usually happy where they are and feel the grass is probably not greener at another dealership and they are not willing to move. The Nissan store I'm at has been growing for years and I have a fairly stable staff but I could use 2-3 more technicians. I'm not expecting Master technicians but I would love some guys with a good backround, good work ethics and most important a good attitude. I have been advertising all of this year, all over the country, and have had very minimal luck. Unfortunately, it's the automotive industry which is probably the same as the power sports industry. I can imagine running a Can-Am store and trying to grow a technical staff, it would be very difficult to say the least. I think the only way it will happen is if dealerships find guys (or gals) that love the product, pay them very well and treat them like family so they stay forever. Then they must require that they take every web based course that is offered and send them away to any training that BRP offers. It's not cheap but it's a must. I think the responsibility primarily rests on the dealerships shoulders. Maybe BRP could do what some of the major automotive manufacturers do, get in bed with tech schools and sponsor and support training within the schools specific to BRP's brand.

What other plans or policies would you suggest BRP implement to correct the technical staff issues that exist within their dealerships?

I will say that it pays to look around when your looking at dealerships to repair your bike because there are good ones out there. Go in and meet the service manager, ask how long he has been there, ask how long their Can Am techs have been with them, ask what their thoughts are on servicing bikes not purchased at their dealership. That last one always blew my mind. I don't care where the customer bought the vehicle, I want more customers. I want repeat business. If I take good care of them they are going to buy there next vehicle from me, which means more service work. Customers for life, it's big circle from sales to service, to parts, again and again.

If anyone is in Connecticut I'd highly recommend GSS Gargano Powersports in East Haven. Family run and a Master tech that knows his stuff. I have 25K on my 2010 RTS and only a few minor issues that they have quickly resolved. I have the confidence in my bike that I would jump on it tomorrow and ride it across the country. Yes I'm addicted to my RTS !

[jcspyder]

I'm out on the west coast (California). I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Funny thing, and I don't know if it's a contributing factor, but I stumbled across a local M/C shop and stopped in to see what they have. They do not sell Spyders. I told them what I ride and the manager said that they work on Spyders but they are not certified. I asked why not, and he said that to be BRP certified you need to be BUDS certified and purchase that system and licensing, which makes complete sense to me. He said that it was just too expensive and he preferred to do what repairs he could on Spyders and not invest in the BUDS and licensing. I don't know if that makes sense, but that was his position.

He may be being too "frugal" or maybe BRP needs to make certification more affordable for repair shops and those who don't necessarily want to be dealers and invest in Spyder inventory.

[Dubliner]

I used to be a motorcycle mechanic in the '70's and 80's and 90's but got out of it as the electronic equipment was getting prohibitive. When you have a small shop, you need to have a quick turn around. As a small shop owner you tend to be able to service almost anything. It can be refreshing although being a specialist shop has its advantages too! When you are stuck with a Beemer or Guzzi waiting for unique parts they eventually cut into your bottom line, space etc.

I am really surprised when I read of machines taking two or three weeks to repair! Surely the factory resolves the problem sooner or is it that the technicians are dragging their feet? How much does the " Buds" system cost to buy? And what about the laser alignment system are these lucrative spin offs?

[PrairieSpyder]

" . . . Maybe BRP could do what some of the major automotive manufacturers do, get in bed with tech schools and sponsor and support training within the schools specific to BRP's brand. . . . "

This is what I was thinking of. I can't remember the car brand, but I knew a young man who was attending a tech school to be certified on a certain brand and he said most of the dealerships for that brand in the US hired from that school. The students can be confident of employment and the dealerships get well-trained techs.

Would there be any reason the dealerships wouldn't hire more trained techs? Many, if not most, are not Spyder-only dealers. And many, if not most aren't even BRP-only dealers. They could be thinking having only one tech is enough. Or they have enough total techs and can't afford to have one away from work to get the training needed for Spyders.

For the dealers and for the independent shops, one key incentive to have more trained and invested in BUDS is to have more demand . . so more Spyders on the road.

Even with the brand being around for seven years, we're still pretty much "early adopters."

[PMK]

Overall, the talent pool for mechanics in all trades is getting pretty lean and the new people seldom have experience, good skills or quality workmanship.

Sad but true.

Coworkers and myself have talked about this many times regarding the aviation industry. Maybe one in 30 has a good work ethic, and skills to be good. The rest are mostly hacks. Often creating warranty rework for the shop and sometimes endangering peoples lives.

Consider that a Doctor spends a lot of time and money for schooling. At best he may kill one person at a time. And he is only practicing medicine.

Your typical aircraft mechanic gets paid a lot less. If he has a bad day he can kill many people from one mistake. Seems odd that people complain about how much it costs to maintain there aircraft, but never complain that the car dealership charges more per hour shop rate...

The look on an aircraft owners face when you explain they can't write the check on the way down is pretty serious.

Not all aircraft owners or pilots are this way, but many are. And sadly, we have many hacks working on the aircraft. Maybe there is balance in the universe.

PK

[Bob Denman]

Perhaps BRP should give a call to MMI, and see if a co-operative effort could be arranged.

http://www.uti.edu/programs/motorcycle

[PrairieSpyder]

Overall, the talent pool for mechanics in all trades is getting pretty lean and the new people seldom have experience, good skills or quality workmanship.

Sad but true.

Coworkers and myself have talked about this many times regarding the aviation industry. Maybe one in 30 has a good work ethic, and skills to be good. The rest are mostly hacks. Often creating warranty rework for the shop and sometimes endangering peoples lives.

Consider that a Doctor spends a lot of time and money for schooling. At best he may kill one person at a time. And he is only practicing medicine.

Your typical aircraft mechanic gets paid a lot less. If he has a bad day he can kill many people from one mistake. Seems odd that people complain about how much it costs to maintain there aircraft, but never complain that the car dealership charges more per hour shop rate...

The look on an aircraft owners face when you explain they can't write the check on the way down is pretty serious.

Not all aircraft owners or pilots are this way, but many are. And sadly, we have many hacks working on the aircraft. Maybe there is balance in the universe.

PK

It's true for all sorts of trades. My brother is skilled in automotive, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, appliance repair . . all sorts of stuff . . and certified in most of those. At 65, he could work anywhere he wants. But young people just aren't coming up with the kind of training needed to do that work.

IMHO, the emphasis on college for everyone is misguided and we're ending up with lots of unemployed college graduates and not enough trained techs. BTW, my brother started learning as a child by hanging out with our dad and the mechanics he employed. So I'd say if any of you have kids, start teaching them early!

[finless]

I will tell you one issue for SURE that causes the long delays for service. I hear this every time out here no matter the dealer.

They DO NOT STOCK PARTS! Or if they do it is stuff for regular service (filters, etc).

When I had the set screw issue I talked to the dealer up front. Sent them the BRP Technical Service Bulletin, and showed them the parts they needed. Bottom line... THEY WOULD NOT ORDER the parts (which was nothing more than gaskets) until they got my Spyder and took it apart.

Thus I waited a full week while parts came in. Had they had the parts or were willing to order them BEFORE I brought my Spyder in, the job would have been one day.

This is a common theme out here and is very annoying.

Bob

[jaherbst]

MMI here in PHX offers no training on the Spyder. Also, graduates are very green and certainly not ready to work without supervision. Had a Nephew train there. It takes two to three years experience with supervision after one graduates to truly be a motorcycle stand alone motorcycle mechanic.

This is due because of the highly technical motorcycle sophistication the new motorcycle/spyder etc. has elevated to. I think it has gone way too far but each time a new technical thing is advertised they sell more units. The "average Joe" cannot do all work required on your toy anymore when things get into technical difficulties not to mention lack of special tools.


Best training is at the factory on specific models i.e. Spyder. Next time you take your Spyder in for maintenance or work ask if the tech is factory certified on the Spyder and ask to see his/her factory certificate on the Spyder. I always do this and let no one else do the work. This has worked well for me with the Harley's, BMW's and the Spyders. Don't just drop it off and hope for the best. Get involved and make sure some 19 year old kid they hired off the street yesterday is not working on your $30,000 Spyder. At $120 per hour you deserve the best. It is your call not there's.

Jack

[Pampurrs]

MMI here in PHX offers no training on the Spyder. Also, graduates are very green and certainly not ready to work without supervision. Had a Nephew train there. It takes two to three years experience with supervision after one graduates to truly be a motorcycle stand alone motorcycle mechanic.

This is due because of the highly technical motorcycle sophistication the new motorcycle/spyder etc. has elevated to. I think it has gone way too far but each time a new technical thing is advertised they sell more units. The "average Joe" cannot do all work required on your toy anymore when things get into technical difficulties not to mention lack of special tools.


Best training is at the factory on specific models i.e. Spyder. Next time you take your Spyder in for maintenance or work ask if the tech is factory certified on the Spyder and ask to see his/her factory certificate on the Spyder. I always do this and let no one else do the work. This has worked well for me with the Harley's, BMW's and the Spyders. Don't just drop it off and hope for the best. Get involved and make sure some 19 year old kid they hired off the street yesterday is not working on your $30,000 Spyder. At $120 per hour you deserve the best. It is your call not there's.

Jack

[Bob Denman]

That's why I suggested that some communication between BRP, and MMI might be useful...
And make it PDQ!

[spydaman60]

I will tell you one issue for SURE that causes the long delays for service. I hear this every time out here no matter the dealer.

They DO NOT STOCK PARTS! Or if they do it is stuff for regular service (filters, etc).

When I had the set screw issue I talked to the dealer up front. Sent them the BRP Technical Service Bulletin, and showed them the parts they needed. Bottom line... THEY WOULD NOT ORDER the parts (which was nothing more than gaskets) until they got my Spyder and took it apart.

Thus I waited a full week while parts came in. Had they had the parts or were willing to order them BEFORE I brought my Spyder in, the job would have been one day.

This is a common theme out here and is very annoying.

Bob

bob,
i agree with you 100%, but, be realistic. there are over 1500 parts in each spyder, and four different models of spyders, so you'd be asking the dealers to stock over 6000 parts, and multiples of most. that just isn't practical for most dealers. number one, big bucks, and number two, lack of parts space.
what brp should do is take the most common parts that have problems and place inventory in their dealerships that was there basically at brp's expense, until the parts were used, and then they get paid for them. (unless it was covered under warrantee, and then the parts get replaced at no charge) a form of consignment type inventory.
another issue with brp is you don't just find can am dealers all over that stand alone. most are multiple manufacturers with seasonal toys. (ie. boats, atv's, utv's, motorcycles, pwc's, snowmobiles etc., etc.) with seasonal toys come peak labor requirements for summerizing, winterizing etc. they aren't going to drop everything for the spyders. granted, if they're working on a snowmobile in july, then they should drop it and jump on the spyder, but if they have 5 pwc's in the shop ahead of the spyder, that's the order they work on them.
there are definitely things brp has to address. there are issues dealers have to address. it would be a good start to have them working at it together!!

[AMTJIM]

Oh Yeah...I forgot one of the local spyder dealers let their BUDS membership expire...that itself took a week because of the laptop problems.

[ARtraveler]

A real dilemma and a lot of problems.

Let me ad one more issue. Dealer spends the money to train person X--gets the person certified. Mechanic then takes a job with another dealer for more money.

Buds are available out there. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[PrairieSpyder]

. .

Let me ad one more issue. Dealer spends the money to train person X--gets the person certified. Mechanic then takes a job with another dealer for more money.

. . .

Another reason to have certified techs in the pipeline!

[Bob Denman]

Should BRP send out a CQD to MMI; PDQ???
my head hurts...

[Pampurrs]

This topic is very depressing. I love my Spyder, but almost regret buying it if this is what I have to expect.

Pam

[finless]

This topic is very depressing. I love my Spyder, but almost regret buying it if this is what I have to expect.

Pam

Don't.... please realize this. What you read here is a small faction of owners. The stories you read here are from those that had problems. You rarely hear from all the others (probably 80% I am guessing) that do not or have not had issues.

So please keep a perspective!

I have a 2011 RTS I bought used with 450 miles on it June 2013. I know have 16K on it. Other than one issue, my spyder has been totally issue free!

But let me also add this. At first I was afraid of the thing like it was some "mystical magical machine". It is NOT and I have done my own service all the way. Because of the dealer bad stories I do not want a dealer to touch mine unless I have to. YOU CAN service this thing yourself! I have and because of that am much more confident in the Spyder than when I first got it.

Bob

[Pampurrs]

Don't.... please realize this. What you read here is a small faction of owners. The stories you read here are from those that had problems. You rarely hear from all the others (probably 80% I am guessing) that do not or have not had issues.

So please keep a perspective!

I have a 2011 RTS I bought used with 450 miles on it June 2013. I know have 16K on it. Other than one issue, my spyder has been totally issue free!

But let me also add this. At first I was afraid of the thing like it was some "mystical magical machine". It is NOT and I have done my own service all the way. Because of the dealer bad stories I do not want a dealer to touch mine unless I have to. YOU CAN service this thing yourself! I have and because of that am much more confident in the Spyder than when I first got it.

Bob

How much does one of those BUDS units cost? That would be rather handy to have in my garage

Pam

[NovaSpyder]

This topic is very depressing. I love my Spyder, but almost regret buying it if this is what I have to expect.

Pam

I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it. I read similar threads and many 'issues' threads before I bought my first Spyder in 2013. I still bought it! I don't disagree with the above but I am just going to jump on my Spyder and ride.

I will have to admit that my dealer experience to date has been positive. I took my '14 RT in for first service and mentioned that my ignition ke was 'sticky' sometimes so Service manager said we'll take a look but will probably replace. Also mentioned a vibration in the front at certain speeds, so they replaced both front tires. Yes these turned out to be known issues with the ifnition and tires but the fix was immediate so to me no big deal.

Any time I have gone to the dealer for service, usually the first thing I am asked is which demo I want to take while they work on the bike.

I don't want to dismiss the big picture but I think for the majority, we just jump on and ride. It sounds like there is a good dealer or two near you. Mine is 3.5 hrs away.

[Pampurrs]

I wouldn't spend much time worrying about it. I read similar threads and many 'issues' threads before I bought my first Spyder in 2013. I still bought it! I don't disagree with the above but I am just going to jump on my Spyder and ride.

I will have to admit that my dealer experience to date has been positive. I took my '14 RT in for first service and mentioned that my ignition ke was 'sticky' sometimes so Service manager said we'll take a look but will probably replace. Also mentioned a vibration in the front at certain speeds, so they replaced both front tires. Yes these turned out to be known issues with the ifnition and tires but the fix was immediate so to me no big deal.

Any time I have gone to the dealer for service, usually the first thing I am asked is which demo I want to take while they work on the bike.

I don't want to dismiss the big picture but I think for the majority, we just jump on and ride. It sounds like there is a good dealer or two near you. Mine is 3.5 hrs away.

The nearest "good" dealer to me is 140 miles away. I'm going to strive to get real good at working on my own Spyder. I have performed work on my Victory, and my previous Hondas, so I may as well learn my way around this mystical Spyder machine

[Bob Denman]

140 miles? Think of it as a good excuse to go find a good coffee shop!

[Pampurrs]

140 miles? Think of it as a good excuse to go find a good coffee shop!

Oh it's a great ride up to Prescott Valley. The thing that scares me is something happening where I have to leave the and ask someone to come pick me up

[Bob Denman]

Sleeping bag, and a bag of Gummy Bears...



Prescott Valley??
The Missus and I were kind of looking at that area as a place for our eventual relocation out of the Northeast...
As I recall; we quit looking, when we couldn't find an apartment that included garage-parking for the Spyder...

[Pampurrs]

Sleeping bag, and a bag of Gummy Bears...

..... and a six pack