Throttle Position Sensor

[Robby]

Gday All,
Have an 11RTLTD SE5 and have had some issues with the TPS. The original has been replaced (25k) and the replacement (lasted 8 months and 800km) has been replaced and now the third one (5 months 1700km) is giving off codes and dumping to check engine/limp mode. Does anyone have any thoughts why it is chewing up sensors or is there something else that should be being looked at. Has 27k (17k M). Have done the code check and it is showing active codes which are TPS codes. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Robby

[Grandpot]

It is highly unlikely there is anything wrong with the Throttle Body. Look at it this way, Bosch makes some of the finest equipment in the world and their quality control is second to none. The odds of getting a defective one are very small. The odds of getting two defective ones on the same bike is almost impossible. The odds of getting three defective units on the same bike is IMPOSSIBLE. The problem is in the components that are common to the throttle body, specifically, the wiring. Most likely you will not have the equipment to test the connections, so you will need to use the SHOTGUN method.

I had the same throttle body issues and fixed them without replacing any parts. This was 8,000 miles ago. Do the following:

*** Disconnect the battery ******

1. Take off the Tupperware all around the engine.
2. Remove the Frunk module.
3. Remove the Air Box.
4. Loosen and then tighten the four main grounds. There is one on the left side of the frame, one on the right side of the frame, one in front, and one under the seat. If you don't have a service manual to show you the locations, get one.
5. Disconnect every electrical connector to all the components around the throttle body and then reconnect them.
6. Disconnect and reconnect the two main connectors at the ECU.
7. Clean the five pivot points on the throttle body, throttle plate shaft and lubricate them with a light, high temperature oil. There is a BRP Service Bulletin explaining this step.
8. Put it all back together.

It may be necessary to use a BUDS system to synchronize the Throttle Body and the Throttle Actuator, but that is unlikely.

Why do the dealers keep replacing perfectly good Throttle Bodies? Why does BRP let them do it?

[Buckeye Bleau]

Wow, that sounds like great advice. I would like to add one more step, when you reattach the electrical connections or plugs put a reasonable American unit of automotive dielectric grease on them.
This small inexpensive test will keep the connections dry and improve the stability of the connections at the same time.

Joe

[Robby]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to clarify that it is the Throttle position sensor (Potentiometer) not the Throttle bodies. Will apply the above and see what flies. Anything else will also be taken on board.

Robby

[Grandpot]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to clarify that it is the Throttle position sensor (Potentiometer) not the Throttle bodies. Will apply the above and see what flies. Anything else will also be taken on board.

Robby

Robby:

I understand what you mean. This is an entire system, so it all must work together. When I said throttle body, I included all of the components. The sensor sits on one end of the throttle plate shaft and the actuator sits on the other. The throttle sends a signal to move the actuator and the sensor verifies the movement. They must all play well together.

Another part is the Throttle itself. This is a Hall Effect transmitter. Very little can go wrong with it, but is does have a connector down by the throttle body.

All of the connectors have dielectric grease and it is a good point the verify it is there. Adding a little will not hurt.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Gday All,
Have an 11RTLTD SE5 and have had some issues with the TPS. The original has been replaced (25k) and the replacement (lasted 8 months and 800km) has been replaced and now the third one (5 months 1700km) is giving off codes and dumping to check engine/limp mode. Does anyone have any thoughts why it is chewing up sensors or is there something else that should be being looked at. Has 27k (17k M). Have done the code check and it is showing active codes which are TPS codes. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Robby

Hey Robby. You didn't mention if a dealer was doing this work so let's start there. You are correct that the TPS is a potentiometer - a duel potentiometer actually - and so each one made can be slightly different in their electrical characteristics. Anytime a TPS is replaced, the TPS Reset procedure in BUDS must be performed. Basically it calibrates the ECM to the new TPS. It's reasonable that the new TPS's are throwing codes if the reset procedure was not performed. If you've been doing the work yourself without access to BUDS, then I'd start there. If it's been done at a dealer, I would confirm that he did that reset procedure.

Secondly, and I've never confirmed it on the Spyder, but some designs of engine management systems use the signal from the MAP sensor as a reasonableness check for the TPS signal. So, if you've never replaced the two vacuum lines going to the MAPS sensor, it's time to do that, also.

I take it that you did NOT get a P1614 code?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My 2012 RT threw some TPS codes I think it was. I believe if the throttle plate is not closing correctly, which happens when there is gunk building up in the throttle body, the code indicates a TPS problem. Make sure the throttle body itself has been cleaned. This is actually in a service bulletin about TPS problems as a maintenance item to done at about 25k miles. Since you have had two codes so soon after the original sensor was replaced I'm inclined to think you actually are experiencing throttle plate closing issues.

Has your machine exhibited a high idle speed right after starting up? Have you had Limp Home errors show up?

[Habib]

If the system is a Bosch one in a Ford product they work exceptional. As long as everything is set and adjusted correctly. I know in the Ford system you don't just plug in a new TPS, after connection you need to adjust the TPS for a specific voltage. Could that be the case here?

[Grandpot]

If the system is a Bosch one in a Ford product they work exceptional. As long as everything is set and adjusted correctly. I know in the Ford system you don't just plug in a new TPS, after connection you need to adjust the TPS for a specific voltage. Could that be the case here?

You will need a BUDS system to synchronize the throttle actuator to the throttle position sensor. This is done instead of a voltage adjustment.

[Robby]

Yes all the replacement work has been done by the dealer, yes the vacuum hoses have been replaced, no only got the TPS code nothing else, no problem with high idle at start up, I am taking a punt that the dealer has done all the right things - I actually do trust the wrench who works on it. Only throws to check engine/limp sporadically - usually bails me up at the most inconvenient time, sometimes at initial start up - other times it is while riding along. Will get it to the dealer and have him do all of the above checks and cross fingers that it behaves.

Robby

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Yeah, check in with your tech, just to make sure he did the reset. It could be easy to forget about.

TPS Reset.jpg

[wanderingman]

It is highly unlikely there is anything wrong with the Throttle Body. Look at it this way, Bosch makes some of the finest equipment in the world and their quality control is second to none. The odds of getting a defective one are very small. The odds of getting two defective ones on the same bike is almost impossible. The odds of getting three defective units on the same bike is IMPOSSIBLE. The problem is in the components that are common to the throttle body, specifically, the wiring. Most likely you will not have the equipment to test the connections, so you will need to use the SHOTGUN method.

I had the same throttle body issues and fixed them without replacing any parts. This was 8,000 miles ago. Do the following:

*** Disconnect the battery ******

1. Take off the Tupperware all around the engine.
2. Remove the Frunk module.
3. Remove the Air Box.
4. Loosen and then tighten the four main grounds. There is one on the left side of the frame, one on the right side of the frame, one in front, and one under the seat. If you don't have a service manual to show you the locations, get one.
5. Disconnect every electrical connector to all the components around the throttle body and then reconnect them.
6. Disconnect and reconnect the two main connectors at the ECU.
7. Clean the five pivot points on the throttle body, throttle plate shaft and lubricate them with a light, high temperature oil. There is a BRP Service Bulletin explaining this step.
8. Put it all back together.

It may be necessary to use a BUDS system to synchronize the Throttle Body and the Throttle Actuator, but that is unlikely.

Why do the dealers keep replacing perfectly good Throttle Bodies? Why does BRP let them do it?

I love to see posts like this. This is the kind of person I really enjoyed working with prior to retirement. Good solid logic.

[Robby]

Spyder has been at the dealer for the last three weeks and finally they believe they have found the issue - and surprise, surprise they believe it is actually not the TPS but the TPS connector. Luckily they where able to get it to cough and splutter and carry on at the dealer just like it does at home. I was relieved to know that it was doing this for the wrench as it made him more determined to dig deeper.

He scoured the BOSSweb and seems this connection must be 100% or it gives problems. This explains why it was intermittent and would shut down at non descript times. This plug has been cleaned and all connectors sorted, packed with di-electric grease and it has now been singing like a choir at church for the last week. Starting and riding without another issue.

Wrench has identified that the plug is replaceable and has ordered the parts from BRP - albeit has to come from Canada so will be a couple of weeks before it arrives here in OZ.

Grandpot you where correct in your post about it being something other than the TPS itself. They have also done the other things as mentioned.

thanks again for all of your input

Robby

[Grandpot]