SM6 vs SE6

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm not trying to be mean; perhaps you bought the wrong bike.
A bit more research before writing a check, might have made the difference.
sorry...

He hasn't bought it. Just thinking & test riding.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

[Cruzr Joe]

2017 F3 Limited only comes in a Semi Automatic.


Cruzr Joe

[Basil faulty]

I'm not trying to be mean; perhaps you bought the wrong bike.
A bit more research before writing a check, might have made the difference.
sorry...

I haven't bought anything yet. Just researching and test riding. I'm lucky enough that I was able to take one for the weekend. I work for a dealer group that also owns a Can Am dealership. I can buy this thing for dead cost plus retain the rebate. Makes it that much worse for me, even on a good deal it's a lot of money and i probably won't be happy. Like I said i really want to like it. I think the new F3 Limited is bad ass looking, but if it is powered like the RT.....

[Basil faulty]

2017 F3 Limited only comes in a Semi Automatic.


Cruzr Joe

Correct, but you could start with an F3T manual and add all the other stuff that the limited has. Except for the chrome, but I don't want the chrome anyway.

[Old Crow]

Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride.

I'm not a Spyder expert by any stretch, but I can make some comments about the transition from a bike as I'm about 2 months and 2K miles into the process. I traded my 2010 1700cc V-twin Kawa for a 2013 RT-S SM5 due to age, knees, etc. Also keep in mind that you are comparing an 1800-6 to a 1330-3. You're giving away almost 30% of the displacement and a lot of low end torque.

For the first couple of weeks I was afraid I had made a bad decision; there is that much difference in riding technique and handling. In addition, the shift points and power band are way different on my 998 Spyder than a large displacement V-twin. The Spyder is happiest at 4500-6000 rpm. With the bigger 1330 on the later Spyders at least you won't have that difference to deal with. It took me almost a month and 1000 miles to start feeling comfortable on the Spyder, with the weight shifting, leaning, pressure on the outside footpeg etc, that is needed for smooth and comfortable cornering. Now at just over 2 months and almost 2000 miles I'm enjoying the fast sweepers and quick left-right-left transitions on the back roads that I didn't like at all initially. I believe the two wheels in front are inherently more stable than a conventional trike; that's why you don't see any 3 wheel off road trikes any more.

Coming from a Wing you may end up feeling better on a traditional Wing conversion; I don't think there is another engine out there that gives the smooth power as that 1800-6 configuration. That's mostly personal preference. I can tell you that my 998 gives me all the power I need and want, and the newer 1330s are said to be even better. Just remember that you're going to have a learning curve, whichever configuration you end up with.

Good luck with whatever you choose. Let us know how it goes.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I haven't bought anything yet. Just researching and test riding. I'm lucky enough that I was able to take one for the weekend. I work for a dealer group that also owns a Can Am dealership. I can buy this thing for dead cost plus retain the rebate. Makes it that much worse for me, even on a good deal it's a lot of money and i probably won't be happy. Like I said i really want to like it. I think the new F3 Limited is bad ass looking, but if it is powered like the RT.....

Take a read through my comments about reverse trikes here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...Reverse-Trikes

The $40k number that has been tossed out is for a new GW with conversion. The reverse trike conversion will set you back about the same, or less, than a conventional trike conversion. Since you already have a 'wing, and it sounds like money is a concern, and you really like your 'wing, I think you might be best served by taking a hard look at one of the reverse trike conversions. My first choice would be the Tilting Motor Works conversion, then the Motor Trike one.

[WA5VHU]

FWIW, I think the 2010 RT 998 twin is underpowered too. In fact I remember posting that I thought it was a "pooch". The only "fix" to the feeling of lack of power is to run it in 4th gear and keep the rpm's at or over 5K. Like I said, I love the safety and convenience of 3 wheels, but I do miss the snappy power of my 2 wheeler. Sounds like you should stick to two wheels until the day comes that you need 3. It's all good. No one can fault you for that.

The sweet spot for the 998 is at or over 5K. I don't get to 5th gear until I am on a 65 MPH Interstate. You must have missed the FAQ's about the 998 operation. There is no lack of power when it is operated properly.

[Basil faulty]

Take a read through my comments about reverse trikes here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...Reverse-Trikes

The $40k number that has been tossed out is for a new GW with conversion. The reverse trike conversion will set you back about the same, or less, than a conventional trike conversion. Since you already have a 'wing, and it sounds like money is a concern, and you really like your 'wing, I think you might be best served by taking a hard look at one of the reverse trike conversions. My first choice would be the Tilting Motor Works conversion, then the Motor Trike one.

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.

I see a lot of people talking about handling, that's not it at all! I've ridden quads most of my life....same thing. The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

[Saluda]

That's actually not at all correct...
What it has: is much lower gearing, and much less weight.
The power of the engines is identical.

Isn't it about a 50 pound difference ?

[WA5VHU]

Thinking of buying a 2017 f3 limited or order an F3T and add the tour pack on the rear. My dealer let me test drive an RT limited for the weekend, he doesn't currently have an F3 demo to ride. I hate the SE6 transmission. Plus this thing feels WAY under powered, is the SM6 model more powerful feeling? They say this thing has 100hp or so to the wheel, sure doesn't feel like it. Is the F3 geared different than the RT? I don't understand how people describe this thing as being torquey, is it me? The demo is a 2016 RT limited, had 58 miles on it when i took it. It has around 275 now. I can get used to the atv like handling, the lack of power would be a deal breaker unless the manual trans model is waaaay better.

Basil,
What is it you hate about the SE6 transmission? It is the same transmission as the SM6, just has a computer operating the clutch for you. I know the knuckle draggers have to have a clutch lever but I bet most SE6 operators will beat most SM6 operators in a race. Hard to shift faster than a computer can.

You do know not to "throttle off" when shifting the SE6?

But yep, from a stop my lighter weight 2013 RS with the 998 engine and SE5 will quickly pull away from my wife's 2014 RT Limited with her "bigger" 1330 engine and SE6, and I may also beat her above 60 MPH.

The F3 specs say the weight is 948 lbs vs. the RT at 1,012 lbs. Doesn't seem like the F3 is that much lighter to me.

The 1330 engine does indeed have more torque. So does a delivery truck engine. They spool up and sound about the same.

You have quite an imagination about having to drive 85 MPH thru the DC area. I live and drive in the area a lot and am lucky if I can get up to the speed limit due to traffic. That's funny. I think you are driving like a lunatic. Speed is not necessarily your safety net.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The sweet spot for the 998 is at or over 5K. I don't get to 5th gear until I am on a 65 MPH Interstate. You must have missed the FAQ's about the 998 operation. There is no lack of power when it is operated properly.

Not until you're pulling a trailer uphill against a headwind. That's when the lack of top end power compared to a two wheel Goldwing is quite obvious.

[AeroPilot]

Sorry, my current ride is a GL 1800 Goldwing. Although I have had many many bikes in my 30 plus years of having a motorcycle license.

What do I hate.... the way it engages from a stop, the clumsiness of it shifting and downshifting, I am assuming it robs horsepower through whatever clutch or torque converter it uses?

With my wing at highway speeds, let's say 75-80 I can just stab the throttle without downshifting and in a blink I am at 100 and still pulling hard. Makes it very easy to pass or get out of the way. Also can slow down to 30 or so without downshifting and just roll the throttle and it will pull nicely. With the RT I find myself downshifting all the time and even then it doesn't pull hard. The wing is supposed to be under 100hp, weight close to the same, but even loaded up heavily with luggage, 2up and pulling a trailer it has way more pull from midrange to the top. I wonder if the RT is still too new and not broke in? Auto trans robbing power? Or is it just how they are?

Yep, being new, and the 1330 cc probably won't move the weight like your 1800 cc Goldwing with manual transmission. My 1584 cc (96 inch) RoadKing was also much "peppier" . They're all different!

[WA5VHU]

Not until you're pulling a trailer uphill against a headwind. That's when the lack of top end power compared to a two wheel Goldwing is quite obvious.

No duh, but that's not what Mazo EMS2 was talking about and what I was responding to.

Pulling a trailer with a Spyder is like pushing two barn doors down the road. Or up the road.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.
.......
The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

I have no idea what the power change would be with the mods you mention. Of course the jet kit isn't an option for the Spyder since there's no carburetor.

I know where you're coming from, but keep in mind that a three wheel version of a Goldwing probably isn't going to have the top end performance a two wheel one has either because of the added weight and larger cross section bucking the wind. I have found that by shifting down and letting the engine rev up to 7000 rpm I have been able to pass semis in reasonably short order. I've had my Spyder up to 90 quite a few times doing so. Now, how the Spyder compares to a 'wing trike at the top end I don't know. I've never actually ridden a GW trike.

As far as getting a trike off the shelf your choices are limited. The Spyder is the only vehicle that can be classified as a motorcycle that is truly 'off the shelf' in its three wheel configuration. There are the Piaggio scooters also but they aren't what you are want. GWs are all after market conversions. The Harleys come from the factory as trikes, but they are still a two wheeler that has been modified.

Like I used to tell my kids, "You can't have everything!"

[Highwayman2013]

I'm kind of disappointed actually. I knew coming from a wing there would be some things i would have to give up. I can get over the handling aspect without a problem, I can get over not having built in comms, CD changer, and the crappy stereo sytem compared to the wing. Wife is not nearly as comfortable on the RT as she is on the wing and the lack of power kills it. Up to 60 or so is ok, after that it just feels like you are forcing it albeit unwillingly. We do a fair amount of traveling and "ride in" so we need to have enough reserve power especially on the freeway to get out of a jamb. I imagine you could hang in the right lane and do the speed limit all day but where's the fun in that. We travel through the Baltimore area and DC on our way out of town most times and all the cage drivers will run you over if you aren't doing at least 85.

We rode the wing to the dragon and back a couple weeks ago, 1800 miles in 4 days. On the way home I set the cruise for 85, never downshifted and didn't stop til I needed gas. 700 mile trip home, effortless keeping that pace and got 41mpg. I guess I am spoiled. I'm going to ride 2 wheels as long as i can I guess and who knows after that. it just seems crazy to me that they would build this thing and under power it for freeway cruising. I want to 'll like it, really I do.

To all that say it is because it is 1800cc versus 1330cc, I used to have a Voyager xii, 1200cc that weighed close to what the wing does and that Thing made gobs of power too. In fact every motorcycle ive ever ridden had more than enough power on the freeway to get out of a jamb if needed, regardless of engine size. The manufacturer put enough power onboard for the size of the bike.

Funny, I have a 2012 RT and I think it has plenty of power. Our speed limits are up to 80 mph and I see no problem getting up to that speed or passing at 90 or more. Is it a hardship to downshift? Not for me. Enjoy whatever you decide.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

.........jmho.......Mike

[hellraiza]

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.

I see a lot of people talking about handling, that's not it at all! I've ridden quads most of my life....same thing. The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

I'm in a metro area as well, Miami highways mean cruising on my 2012 RS-S SM5 at 80-90mph constantly, and its got enough pep to get you out of harm's way even at those speeds.

I also put over 2k miles recently on an F6B in a week trip out through Utah & Yellowstone, and I've test ridden an F3-S with the SM6 and had it up to highway speeds. The 1330 definitely has more torque than my 998 but no where near the smoothness of the Goldwing.. Maybe it's because i'm used to the 998 liking the upper RPM range or the GW being so quite and effortless at those speeds, but the 1330 just sounded like it was struggling even tho the numbers were rising. This alone made me keep the RS-S, and once I sell this I'll probably go back to two wheels. I enjoy the adrenaline rush and I just didn't get it from the F3. I'd love to thrown a 1330 in an RS and see what it can really do though haha

[fritzer1]

.
I am looking at the Goldwing conversions too. I was hoping to have something off the shelf so to speak. How much would a pipe and free flow air cleaner open it up? I had a brand new Harley years ago that felt kind of like this. A set of pipes, high flow cleaner and jet kit later and it was like a whole different bike. Initially it felt like you were really pushing it to cruise at 75, after opening it up 75 was effortless and there was enough power to accelerate out of harms way if needed.

I see a lot of people talking about handling, that's not it at all! I've ridden quads most of my life....same thing. The problem is that it is gutless over 65ish and that just plain scares me on the freeway here.

Hey Basil -
Keep your Goldwing, and check out Tilting Motor Works, as mentioned earlier. Forget the usual trike conversion kits, and have a truly stable "LEANING" 3-wheel Goldwing. I'm a little guy, at 145lbs, and the Goldwing is much too daunting for me to handle, but with TMW's 2-wheel kit up front, making it a leaning reverse trike, I am reconsidering. You will lose nothing with your GW, but will have added more stability, traction and braking.

Otherwise, 2016 F3T manual, as it will have lower gearing with the 89tooth rear sprocket. I believe the 2017 will have the 79tooth sprocket, as the RT models.

[Saluda]

Pulling a trailer with a Spyder is like pushing two barn doors down the road. Or up the road.

I haven't found that to be true.

[Buckeye Bleau]

Do yourself a favor don't buy a Spyder ....... ...... Mike

Frankly I find it hard to believe I am saying that but my thoughts exactly!

Joe

[Bob Denman]

Isn't it about a 50 pound difference ?

Per the 2016 brochures: 162 pounds.
(1012, versus 850...)

[Saluda]

948 to 1012

[StanProff]

I haven't been on the forum much for quite some time but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of the "under powered" 1330 RT. Also throw in a comment about the SE transmission. First of all I've owned a 998 RT SM and now have a '14 1330 RT SE (I pull the 622 trailer as well when traveling). Yep! the 1330 is not going to win many top end races, it is not as fast as a sport bike nor does it have the top end of many cruisers or a gold wing. I ride with both. I just got back from a trip from Upper East Tennessee(near Virginia) to Waco Texas and back. I was running with a friend who rides a Victory Cross country. Running on cruise control at 75-80 for most of the trip, pulling the trailer with luggage so the weight of trailer, 250 lbs, luggage consisting of two suit cases, extra helmets, extra leather coats due to cool weather and many other items that added at least 50-60 lbs in the trailer. Conservative estimate would be 300 lbs in tow. On one occasion I ran up to 102 indicated because I got mad at an erratic driver and just took off. I know folks, I shouldn't have gone that fast but it just happened. Anyway, The 1330 will tow a trailer at 102 mph. Fact. Would it go much faster than that. No. But how much faster do you want to go anyway? Underpowered? No, that is relative. SE transmission? My first Spyder RT was a SM I have gotten used to the SE and now would have it hands down over the SM, I've ridden two wheelers for 50 years and still own 6. It will take off and leave most cruisers behind simply due to the speed at which you can go through the gears. My two wheel cruiser buddies will attest to that. They have ridden the Spyder and gotten off saying "no wonder they can't stick with me through the gears" due to the fact that it shifts so quickly. Finally you have to know how to ride the 1330 with the SE trans. Never let off of the gas when hitting the trigger. (you don't do it in your automatic car, why would people do it on a spyder). Never had a torque problem. Give it the gas and it pulls. Trailer or no trailer.
I am very happy with the 1330 engine, of course I never expected it to outrun my Honda V4 or the CX turbo I have but it is a good compromise of comfort, handling, safety above any other two wheeler or 3 wheeler and a great touring machine. We ran two 700 plus mile days on the recent trip and loved every mile of it. A Spyder may not be the machine for a lot of people so simply buy what your comfortable with. Goldwings are great! If you want to run comfortable at 120 mph that is the bike for you. If you want to make some compromises but make safety a priority I Don't see anything equal to a Spyder, from anti lock brakes, traction control, stability control, digital power steering etc. Remember, the Spyder is engineered from the ground up to be what it is. It is not a kit. I like that.
Okay, I made up for being silent for a while by writing this book so I'll stop.

[Cruzr Joe]

I haven't been on the forum much for quite some time but I thought I'd chime in on the subject of the "under powered" 1330 RT. Also throw in a comment about the SE transmission. First of all I've owned a 998 RT SM and now have a '14 1330 RT SE (I pull the 622 trailer as well when traveling). Yep! the 1330 is not going to win many top end races, it is not as fast as a sport bike nor does it have the top end of many cruisers or a gold wing. I ride with both. I just got back from a trip from Upper East Tennessee(near Virginia) to Waco Texas and back. I was running with a friend who rides a Victory Cross country. Running on cruise control at 75-80 for most of the trip, pulling the trailer with luggage so the weight of trailer, 250 lbs, luggage consisting of two suit cases, extra helmets, extra leather coats due to cool weather and many other items that added at least 50-60 lbs in the trailer. Conservative estimate would be 300 lbs in tow. On one occasion I ran up to 102 indicated because I got mad at an erratic driver and just took off. I know folks, I shouldn't have gone that fast but it just happened. Anyway, The 1330 will tow a trailer at 102 mph. Fact. Would it go much faster than that. No. But how much faster do you want to go anyway? Underpowered? No, that is relative. SE transmission? My first Spyder RT was a SM I have gotten used to the SE and now would have it hands down over the SM, I've ridden two wheelers for 50 years and still own 6. It will take off and leave most cruisers behind simply due to the speed at which you can go through the gears. My two wheel cruiser buddies will attest to that. They have ridden the Spyder and gotten off saying "no wonder they can't stick with me through the gears" due to the fact that it shifts so quickly. Finally you have to know how to ride the 1330 with the SE trans. Never let off of the gas when hitting the trigger. (you don't do it in your automatic car, why would people do it on a spyder). Never had a torque problem. Give it the gas and it pulls. Trailer or no trailer.
I am very happy with the 1330 engine, of course I never expected it to outrun my Honda V4 or the CX turbo I have but it is a good compromise of comfort, handling, safety above any other two wheeler or 3 wheeler and a great touring machine. We ran two 700 plus mile days on the recent trip and loved every mile of it. A Spyder may not be the machine for a lot of people so simply buy what your comfortable with. Goldwings are great! If you want to run comfortable at 120 mph that is the bike for you. If you want to make some compromises but make safety a priority I Don't see anything equal to a Spyder, from anti lock brakes, traction control, stability control, digital power steering etc. Remember, the Spyder is engineered from the ground up to be what it is. It is not a kit. I like that.
Okay, I made up for being silent for a while by writing this book so I'll stop.

, Very well put

Cruzr Joe

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

In my comments above about a lack of top end power while pulling a trailer I should have qualified my comments. The trailer I've been pulling is my 'tent on a trailer' which is not an aerodynamic design at all and weighs over 400 lbs. I would imagine that the 622 or RT trailer probably does pull with less effort because they are pretty well aerodynamically designed, and probably in most cases not carrying as much weight.