2015 RTL Front axle bushings need to be replaced.

[jlknorst]

15,500 miles on the bike. Just got it, brand new, on 12/23/2015. BRP will not cover the cost as they are "wearable" parts.

1) is this normal wear at 15.5K miles?
2) is this normal BRP policy?

Thanks,

[jcthorne]

Not sure what parts you are speaking of. Perhaps the front hubs?

They have roller bearings that seldom fail in the useful life of a Spyder. If both have failed, I suspect water submersion at some point in the spyder's life. At any rate, they are wear components and not covered by warranty. If it were just one, it could have been a bad component but both? No they were damaged somehow.

Are you sure the front hubs are bad? Perhaps the dealer is speaking of a different part?

[jlknorst]

Not sure what parts you are speaking of. Perhaps the front hubs?

They have roller bearings that seldom fail in the useful life of a Spyder. If both have failed, I suspect water submersion at some point in the spyder's life. At any rate, they are wear components and not covered by warranty. If it were just one, it could have been a bad component but both? No they were damaged somehow.

Are you sure the front hubs are bad? Perhaps the dealer is speaking of a different part?

They want to rotate my front tires and do an alignment. The service writer said they can't do the alignment because of the worn bushings.
I don't know a bushing from an acorn as you can probably tell. I haven't ridden through any water that would go over the axle. I was in a couple of real good thunderstorms on my last trip to the east coast. Would that qualify?

[hypurone]

They want to rotate my front tires and do an alignment. The service writer said they can't do the alignment because of the worn bushings.
I don't know a bushing from an acorn as you can probably tell. I haven't ridden through any water that would go over the axle. I was in a couple of real good thunderstorms on my last trip to the east coast. Would that qualify?

They are most likely talking about the control arm bushings. There are 2 per arm (they may be half-bushings so the quantity could be 4), 2 arms per side.... It is really disheartening if they are truly bad at that mileage! Most cars go their entire existences without failure of these parts....Trucks are another story.... It is even more disheartening that they won't warrant them, hiding behind the wearable item statement. Technically, EVERYTHING is a wearable item for f*ck sake!

They are not normally a "grease-able" item....

[almosthere]

Correct me if I'm wrong here people. But I think I heard on this site that the front tires are roll directional, meaning you can't just swap sides like a car. They would need to be removed from the rims then moved to the other side with the what was inside of the tire now showing on the outside once put back on the rims. Sounds like that service dept. is trying to bill you ALOT of shop time.

[Bob Denman]

Perhaps you need to look around for a different shop?
But if they actually want to sell you "Front axle bushings": I want to be there, when they bring them out to show you where they go on the bike!
(Perhaps they'll offer you a special pricing on Blinker Fluid next!)

[Roadster Renovations]

Get a second opinion from another shop. Also, make sure it is a Rollo alignment. Some shops still try to pan off the old alignment method which was not accurate at all. If you are getting a vibration from the front it could be from the crappy Kendra tires. I replace mine with Federals and couldn't believe the difference.

[Roadster Renovations]

Also, don't tell the other shop anything about the first shop. Let them come up with their own diagnosis.

[Peter Aawen]

Correct me if I'm wrong here people. But I think I heard on this site that the front tires are roll directional, meaning you can't just swap sides like a car. They would need to be removed from the rims then moved to the other side with the what was inside of the tire now showing on the outside once put back on the rims. Sounds like that service dept. is trying to bill you ALOT of shop time.

Yes, the OE Kenda tires, both front AND the rear, ARE directional & should only be mounted on the Spyder so they roll in the indicated direction (there is an arrow on the sidewall of all directional tires!) Now I must admit that this was quite a while back, but I recall reading in the OE Manual that BRP recommend 'rotating' the directional OE tires every 10,000 miles. The manual went on to explain that because the tires are directional & need to continue rolling in the same direction, swapping them from one side of the Spyder to the other entails stripping them off the rim & refitting them with the bead that was formerly on the inside of the rim mounted so that it's now on the outside; so that when you move the wheels to the other side of the vehicle, the re-mounted tire will continue rolling in the correct direction.

This isn't something extra-ordinary or untoward, it's actually normal practice for any 'tire aware' owner/operator, simply because ANY directional tire that's fitted to an independent suspension warrants rotating 'regularly' (usually defined as every 5 or 10,000 miles/km) because the action of the independent suspension during normal 'on-road' use & the varying loads that entails will generally see the inside of the tire wearing somewhat quicker than the outside largely due to the camber changes that occur as the suspension articulates; and most experienced & competent tire fitters are well versed at flipping directional tires on their rims whenever swapping those tires from one side of the vehicle to the other - at least they are generally that aware & well trained here in Aus, altho it seems maybe not in North America?!?

[jlknorst]

Correct me if I'm wrong here people. But I think I heard on this site that the front tires are roll directional, meaning you can't just swap sides like a car. They would need to be removed from the rims then moved to the other side with the what was inside of the tire now showing on the outside once put back on the rims. Sounds like that service dept. is trying to bill you ALOT of shop time.

I think they are going to take thm off the rims and remount them. I'll check with them in the morning. Thanks.

[jlknorst]

Get a second opinion from another shop. Also, make sure it is a Rollo alignment. Some shops still try to pan off the old alignment method which was not accurate at all. If you are getting a vibration from the front it could be from the crappy Kendra tires. I replace mine with Federals and couldn't believe the difference.

Doc, they have the ROLO system where the bike is. I'll double check with them in the morning. Thanks.

They did replace the rear tire with a Kenda I'm assuming. What size Federal does the 2015 RTL take for the front two? What kind of milage do you get on them? I probably have about 6K left on the Kendas which will bring the total up to around 21K. Which sounds, to my untrained ear, pretty good.

Jack

[jcthorne]

They want to rotate my front tires and do an alignment. The service writer said they can't do the alignment because of the worn bushings.
I don't know a bushing from an acorn as you can probably tell. I haven't ridden through any water that would go over the axle. I was in a couple of real good thunderstorms on my last trip to the east coast. Would that qualify?

This sounds much more like control arm bushings. Starting with the 2014 RT, these bushings no longer have grease fittings and are maintiance free. Control arm bushings are indeed covered under the OEM warranty. BEST extended warranty as well.

[murphybrown]

That got you to take your Spyder into the service department. Please describe in detail. I guarantee you I know nothing mechanical BUT what I have discovered and have come to rely on is the unlimited knowledge and willingness to help us "less mechanical" owners, that I have found on this forum.

[SpyderAnn01]

Joe spoke with Jack last night and he is going to talk to the service writer when Jack gets to the dealership this morning. The Spyder had no symptoms other than his tires are starting to cup, which is not surprising at 15,000+ miles on them.

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc, they have the ROLO system where the bike is. I'll double check with them in the morning. Thanks.

They did replace the rear tire with a Kenda I'm assuming. What size Federal does the 2015 RTL take for the front two? What kind of milage do you get on them? I probably have about 6K left on the Kendas which will bring the total up to around 21K. Which sounds, to my untrained ear, pretty good.

Jack

Kenny Butler got 80K out of a set. I have 5k on mine and they are not even showing any wear. Here is a link with tire size and where I bought. Currently out of stock.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[jcthorne]

We had a set on Louise last TWO RTs. Same set, just kept them as they were mounted on upgraded wheels we liked. THey do last a long time (Federal EVOs) but we were never happy with the ride and handling quality. They are flat HARD tires. We do not recommend them to our customers.

[SpyderAnn01]

We had a set on Louise last TWO RTs. Same set, just kept them as they were mounted on upgraded wheels we liked. THey do last a long time (Federal EVOs) but we were never happy with the ride and handling quality. They are flat HARD tires. We do not recommend them to our customers.

i ran two sets of them and got great mileage but I agree that you definitely give up a lot on handling.

[PW2013STL]

Joe spoke with Jack last night and he is going to talk to the service writer when Jack gets to the dealership this morning. The Spyder had no symptoms other than his tires are starting to cup, which is not surprising at 15,000+ miles on them.

My OEM front tires started to cup at less then 2000 miles. Since he is running those it could just be the tires.

[Fat Baxter]

We had a set on Louise last TWO RTs. Same set, just kept them as they were mounted on upgraded wheels we liked. THey do last a long time (Federal EVOs) but we were never happy with the ride and handling quality. They are flat HARD tires. We do not recommend them to our customers.

What would you recommend then?

I've been watching the tire discussions closely, as I'd like to replace the stock Kendas. I note that Federal Evos are a popular choice, but this is the first I've heard that they run hard.

FWIW, a while back I tried starting a thread soliciting input as to front tire size options, but it went nowhere.

[jlknorst]

As it stands now I will be taking the bike up to Joe and Ann's place. They will install the Federal tires and also check the arm bushings.
If the bushings are in need of replacement I will contact BRP about the warranty and the B.E.S.T. warranty that I have. To me, and others, it seems like a statistical impossibility that they are all bad. This could indeed be a supplier problem.

Jack

[AppleSpyder]

As it stands now I will be taking the bike up to Joe and Ann's place. They will install the Federal tires and also check the arm bushings.
If the bushings are in need of replacement I will contact BRP about the warranty and the B.E.S.T. warranty that I have. To me, and others, it seems like a statistical impossibility that they are all bad. This could indeed be a supplier problem.

Jack

Jack,
Please keep us posted on the outcome. I'm very curious as to what they will find. Cindy

[cptjam]

We checked with our trusted local dealer. They have never seen bad bushing, either! I have personally serviced 800+ Spyders, and have never seen 8 bad bushings! I can't wait to see Jack's! I'll keep you posted, too. Joe

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What would you recommend then?

I've been watching the tire discussions closely, as I'd like to replace the stock Kendas. I note that Federal Evos are a popular choice, but this is the first I've heard that they run hard.

FWIW, a while back I tried starting a thread soliciting input as to front tire size options, but it went nowhere.

........I've heard that the folks that are into " DRIFTING " ( sliding / spinning their cars ) really like the EVO tires ..... this would lead me to think that they are very, very hard .............jmho....Mike

[billybovine]

It happens often reading posts on this forum. The tech explains to the service writer what's wrong. The service writer explains to the customer what's wrong. The customer explains to us what's wrong. Buy the time it gets to us it really does not make a lot of sense. There may not any ill intent or incompetence by anyone. Sometimes you can get clues to what the real explanation from the tech was. In this case all of my guesses don't make any sense. So I am very interested in what you find.

[SpyderAnn01]

It happens often reading posts on this forum. The tech explains to the service writer what's wrong. The service writer explains to the customer what's wrong. The customer explains to us what's wrong. Buy the time it gets to us it really does not make a lot of sense. There may not any ill intent or incompetence by anyone. Sometimes you can get clues to what the real explanation from the tech was. In this case all of my guesses don't make any sense. So I am very interested in what you find.

Joe spoke to the service writer in AZ yesterday and didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about his capabilities. In a shop where 99.9% of the employees are on commission it doesn't surprise me that they might be making up work to generate income.