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  1. #126
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    If the Part Number has not changed, do you think BRP just BSes the Dealers and lies about the Sprocket now being hardened? If so, how in the world can we trust them ,or believe any thing they tell us? I have known my Dealer Tech for seven years, and have a friendly relationship with him. I really trust him, and do not believe he would lie to me. He told me that BRP told him that they are no longer using the old style Sprockets, and the one they will send him to replace my stripped one, replaced a year ago, is now hardened, and should not strip the splines again. He said that BOTH the Shaft, and the Sprocket are hardened. Now B.S. some times starts at the top, and gets shoveled down hill, so I don’t believe my Dealer Tech lied to me. I would be really disappointed if I find out later that he did. So, if the new Sprocket is not hardened, and is still the same old untreated style that BRP knows will fail, as they have been, then, who is lying to who? BRP Engineering could be lying to their customer Service Techs., or, if no one is lying to any one, and the Sprockets Part Numbers remain the same, some one within our Spyder Owner Community that has reliable inside believable connections inside the BRP Engineering Department should enlighten us. Then, if BRP is definitely feeding us B.S. and has no intention of permanently fixing that Sprocket Problem, then, we at least could try to come up with our own resolution, as a Group. Comments?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Part number for sprocket in BRP parts lookup has not changed. No indication of any superseded part number or tech bulletin.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  2. #127
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    According to this interesting Article, Cast Iron usually is difficult to accept Welding, so trying to weld the Cast Iron Sprocket to the hardened steel shaft would be counter productive. How ever, the Article says that the Cast Iron can be hardened by Heat Treating, followed by rapid cooling. Having done this hundreds of times, during my Metal Finishing career, its common procedure. So, BRP may already have had their Sprocket Inventory heat treated, but have not changed the Part Number of the Sprocket. ( giving them the benefit of doubt )

    http://www.locknstitch.com/pdf/gmrc_white_paper.pdf

    007James

    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderlass View Post
    I think you'll find the pulley is cast iron.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  3. #128
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Or possibly the front pulley is not cast iron, but rather cast steel?

    As far as pulleys being improperly hardened or made from softer material, maybe consider having a testing lab accomplish a hardness test on both. Certainly no lies to hide by that method...

  4. #129
    Active Member greybeard's Avatar
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    very simple run a file across it if it cuts it's soft if not and makes a shiny mark on the file it's hard. These are not cast iron. Would you rather replace the pulley or the output shaft which is what you will do with a hardened pulley

  5. #130
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Makes sense, Greybeard. But if true, than BRP should just come clean, and say the Sprockets are purposely not hardened, and will never be hardened, for the reason you state. Lying to us, who are stripping Sprocket splines, will never build good Customer Relationships or confidence in trusting any other thing they try to B.S. us with. But these Sprocket failures are still a mystery, to me at least. Why do some of us have failures at 10, 20, and 30,000 miles on SOME RTs and Fs, whereas many others, are still going strong with 30,000 miles and over, with no failures. I ride Solo, and have no performance modifications, and never abuse my Spyder. There has to be some verifiable, reasons for these selective failures. Did BRP get a bad load of Sprockets, with crappy metal composition? I have never even adjusted my own Drive Belt, nor changed out the rear tires. Dealers have always done all adjustments. If these Sprockets are failing on the 1330 engines, they will never survive larger 1600 or 1800 engine up grades as some Owners are hoping BRB comes out with after the 1330 Swan Song. Seems the Shaft Drive will be the only way to eliminate the Sprocket Failures and Belt Chatter.
    007James


    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    very simple run a file across it if it cuts it's soft if not and makes a shiny mark on the file it's hard. These are not cast iron. Would you rather replace the pulley or the output shaft which is what you will do with a hardened pulley
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    These are not cast iron...
    Have you got evidence for this?

  7. #132
    Very Active Member Sarge707's Avatar
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    Have any of you been able to limp home when you really noticed the problem? At 17,000 I,m still waiting but did replace the bolt and retorqued at 10,000 miles. Time will tell.

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  8. #133
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Reading these posts, like the other topics before them is numbing of the mind like every other conspiracy theory.

    Reading posts from some folks solidifies the idea that even if the Spyder itself was flawless, they still would imagine faults and overthink them.

  9. #134
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Drive pulley failure on the Can-Am Spyder is not a conspiracy theory. Reliability is.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  10. #135
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Final Update on my 2nd failed Sprocket Pulley adventure: As far as the Part Number being changed on the Sprocket, I have yet to get the Paper Work on my Warrantee work, so can’t say if there is a new Part Number. But, I really doubt that the Number has been changed, or that the current Sprockets being used on Warrantees to replace the failures is any new design, or Metal composition of the Sprockets. I put in my request for another extension of my Factory Warrantee, along with my reasons for asking, which included my Summer down time, because of a 2nd Sprocket failure, and I asked if the same Part Number Sprocket was used this time, and if so, what will prevent the Sprocket from continuing to fail after my Warrantee expires. Well, as I reported in a prior post, My Dealer was working with BRP on my “ Case”, and had the engine/Transmission all unbolted, from the frame with Tupper Ware and wiring connections apart, ready to remove , so Case could be split to remove the Shaft, that had the seized Sprocket stuck on it. I expected to be down all Summer, but Low and Behold, I was called by my Dealer on July 13 to come pick up my Spyder, as it was all fixed, test driven, and ready to go. I found out that BRP had refused to allow my Dealer to remove the engine and split the case until they tried several, more suggestions from BRB , until they finally were able to remove the Sprocket from the Shaft with out removing the engine. As before, they found the Sprocket Splines to be stripped, but the Shaft Splines still not damaged enough to not be able to accept another Sacrificial Sprocket. Also, BRP agreed to reimburse my Dealer for all the Labor hours in doing all the tests, under Warrantee. So, I have logged 800 miles on my Spyder with the the new Sprocket, Bolt, Spline Grease, ( what ever BRP had my Dealer use, which most likely will remain proprioratary, plus whatever else they did to patch it up once more, but it runs good again, and all’s well that ends well.) Meanwhile, BRP had not returned my request to an extension on my Factory Warrantee, so considering it was within a month of expiring, I decided to buy the B.E.S.T. 3 year Extended Warrantee from my Dealer, ( Virgil Naff Kawasaki in Lynchburg, my PREFERRED Dealer, who has never blew me off or ever disrespected me in the 7 years I have been dealing with them ) . They matched the Price of my lowest Bid I got, on my B.E.S.T. 3 year Warrantee. My thought was, I still do not have confidence that the Sprocket issue will not happen again, so at least, I now have an additional three years to be covered under Warrantee if, and when, it reoccurs. If I had not bought the Extended Warrantee, I would have never had any peace of mind putting more miles on my Spyder, because it has almost 35,000 miles logged on it. Now, as for BRP granting me any more extended time on my FACTORY Warrantee, a Customer Care Rep from BRP called me yesterday, and told me that BRP does not offer more than 5 years of Total Warrantee on Spyders, and since I already had the 2 year Factory Warrantee, plus the 1st 4 month Extension in 2018 because of down time with the 1st Sprocket Failure, BRP would not, or could not, extend my Warrantee any further, because they had already accepted my 3 year B.E.S.T. Ext. Warrantee, but in order to satisfy my loss of riding time gripe this Summer, they offered me a Credit to compensate me for my down time, that I could use at my Dealer for, either any Can-Am Product, or future Service the Dealer will do to my Spyder. I gratefully accepted the offer, obviously, and my Dealer Service Mgr. Called me shortly there after, to verify the dollar amount was added as a Credit to my Account. So, I think it was a fair deal, and handled politely, and Civil, in spite of the negative issues, which falls in to the category, of,...” **** Happens.” The Credit will be used for my future Service at the Dealer, which will easily cover at least a full Oil and Filter Change, but I would be doing that any way, so I like to think I am deducting that amount from the Cost I already paid for the 3 year B.E.S.T Ext. Warrantee, which then, makes that Cost real reasonable! So that’s the end of my story, on this Sprocket failure, and sharing Rants, disappointments, and results. But all in all, I am happy with my Dealer’s patience, and willingness to fairly represent my Case with BRP, and with BRP’s compliance of trying to be as fair as possible to my Repair problem, with out changing their entire Company Rules to appease my little problem. But had I been with out a competent, caring Dealer, I might have just as well have been on the Moon, and “ Whistling Dixie”.
    007James

    Quote Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
    Part number for sprocket in BRP parts lookup has not changed. No indication of any superseded part number or tech bulletin.
    2016 RT Limited , Black & Lava Bronze

  11. #136
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    007James, it is good to hear that your dealer takes care of you and that you got reasonable compensation from BRP. Two weeks ago my girlfriend was riding in the wild West, in an area with a crazed Grizzly Bear on a rampage? when her sprocket left her stranded. She got her F3T back to her dealer and they told her it wasn’t a warranty issue. I got her copies of the TSB and copies of this and other threads on the subject and she finally was able to get it covered. All dealers are not created equal.

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  12. #137
    Very Active Member AeroPilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderAnn01 View Post
    ........ All dealers are not created equal.
    True - We are fortunate to have a higher volume dealer with two CanAm trained techs about 25 miles from us. We have had several issues with the 4 Spyders we've enjoyed since 2011, and even though I change oil and tires, brakes and clean and otherwise maintain them, Fremont has done the first service and other specialized services including the 2 year brake fluid flush using B.U.D.S. to flush the ABS control module. On June 22nd we dropped the 16 F3T off to investigate a whining noise (and have a brake fluid flush) and were called and told that the front sprocket needed replaced (at 47,335 miles). We left the bike and said to call when it was done.

    We were out of town the next week so we missed the call on Friday the 28th that said it was done... picked it up on July 3rd and the wife was happy to ride over the 4th. Last July at the Deadwood 3WRally, the parking brake motor went out on the F3T and the Dealer in Spearfish was able to diagnose it and found a motor at the Pikes Peak dealership so that we could get it replaced on the Monday we got back.

    I'm not saying every issue was fixed that quick, but I was pleased on these repairs under warranty, especially as they were on my wifes ryde as as we know "Happy Wife- Happy Life" and its correllary is also true.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 08-03-2019 at 05:03 AM. Reason: Made the quote work!
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  13. #138
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    Hello all. Does anyone know how to remove the bolt holding the sprocket in place? Even in gear the shaft still moves when I am trying to loosen bolt. The sprocket has the belt attached and it doesn’t move so it is definitely the sprocket or shaft.

  14. #139
    Very Active Member Gwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330ALLTYDUP View Post
    Hello all. Does anyone know how to remove the bolt holding the sprocket in place? Even in gear the shaft still moves when I am trying to loosen bolt. The sprocket has the belt attached and it doesn’t move so it is definitely the sprocket or shaft.

    Look at the other post. I put a picture of a pulley locking tool on there.

    https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...t-Bolt-Removal
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  15. #140
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330ALLTYDUP View Post
    Hello all. Does anyone know how to remove the bolt holding the sprocket in place? Even in gear the shaft still moves when I am trying to loosen bolt. The sprocket has the belt attached and it doesn’t move so it is definitely the sprocket or shaft.
    Use a serious power impact gun with a correct size six point impact socket. Propane torch heat bolt head super hot, then immediately try and zip the bolt out.

    If the shaft still spins in the pulley, manually shift it into first gear, and try again with caution not to beat it much for fear of beating on the gearbox.

  16. #141
    SpyderLovers Sponsor merlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 330ALLTYDUP View Post
    Hello all. Does anyone know how to remove the bolt holding the sprocket in place? Even in gear the shaft still moves when I am trying to loosen bolt. The sprocket has the belt attached and it doesn’t move so it is definitely the sprocket or shaft.
    PMK advise should work if you do it properly
    if not you would need to hold the clutch basket,not the pulley

    when i refitted my bolt,i removed the yellow thread locker from it and used fresh blue loctite,but i do plan to check this component every 10K Kms
    russ
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    still a WIP but bike is now running and registered....swapped out 5 modules mostly sourced from Canadian wrecker

  17. #142
    Active Member RudyB's Avatar
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    What is the correct torque on front pulley bolt

  18. #143
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    2015 F3-S Sprocket #4 just went out. 76,500 miles total. Seems about every 20,000 miles. Not much I can do but order another one!
    God bless those who serve/served our country!

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s View Post
    2015 F3-S Sprocket #4 just went out. 76,500 miles total. Seems about every 20,000 miles. Not much I can do but order another one!
    Are you replacing them yourself? Are you using Locktite or Moly? Have you just been replacing the sprocket? Have you had to have the shaft replaced? About to replace my first sprocket myself on my 2015 F3S which is why I'm asking all the questions.
    -----
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  20. #145
    Active Member SpyderF3-s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdr00ejr View Post
    Are you replacing them yourself? Are you using Locktite or Moly? Have you just been replacing the sprocket? Have you had to have the shaft replaced? About to replace my first sprocket myself on my 2015 F3S which is why I'm asking all the questions.
    This will the first time I am replacing myself since warranty has expired. The other times the local dealer has been replacing them. I will be using Moly paste, new bolt, new washer and new sprocket. Shaft is still within specs.
    God bless those who serve/served our country!

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderF3-s View Post
    This will the first time I am replacing myself since warranty has expired. The other times the local dealer has been replacing them. I will be using Moly paste, new bolt, new washer and new sprocket. Shaft is still within specs.
    Thanks - which Moly Grease are you using?
    -----
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  22. #147
    Active Member SpyderF3-s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdr00ejr View Post
    Thanks - which Moly Grease are you using?
    F66A81CC-9DD2-40B4-8684-C17C63143868.jpg
    God bless those who serve/served our country!

  23. #148
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    Is the Loctite Moly Paste what BRP suggests? I have some Valvoline Synthetic Moly grease and had planned to use that but dont want to cheap out to save $35. Do you think the Valvoline product is good or should I get the Loctite product?

  24. #149
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RosieriderKY View Post
    Is the Loctite Moly Paste what BRP suggests? I have some Valvoline Synthetic Moly grease and had planned to use that but dont want to cheap out to save $35. Do you think the Valvoline product is good or should I get the Loctite product?
    Regarding what BRP specifies, it is not a moly paste or moly lube. The stuff BRP specifies is Kluberpaste 46 MR401.

    Valvoline synthetic grease with moly is not the same as a moly paste and should not be used.

    Molykote 77 should be available from your local Honda dealer for a reasonable cost.

  25. #150
    Very Active Member ulflyer's Avatar
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    I'm confused: is the Moly 77 used on the bolt thread, or on the spline?
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