I haven't had mine apart yet, but I'm guessing the front sprocket is aluminum.
So red rust dust present on that part would indicate something made of steel is being abraded away (the splines on the drive shaft in this case).
Reason I point this out (as a question) is, the inner shaft is wearing down. Just replacing with a new sprocket won't replace that material.
But I suppose Loctite 660 is intended to fill the gaps (?).
So, stevencovert and others with red dust on the sprocket, would yours have failed if you used Loctite 660 at last install?
Sprocket is steel, not aluminum but not hardened like the shaft. The current BRP recommendation is moly spline lube, not loctite.
2017 F3T-SM6 Squared Away Mirror Wedgies & Alignment
2014 RTS-SM6 123,600 miles Sold 11/2017
2014 RTL-SE6 8,600 miles
2011 RTS-SM5 5,000 miles
2013 RTS-SM5 burned up with 13,200 miles in 13 weeks
2010 RTS-SM5 59,148 miles
2010 RT- 622
I have had belt drive bikes since the early 80s. The belts normally last around 50,000 miles and the pulleys should last at least as long, even when used in dirt / sand. If the pulley is going out that soon, something is definitely wrong.
Sprocket is steel, not aluminum but not hardened like the shaft. The current BRP recommendation is moly spline lube, not loctite.
Pretty certain when I checked the specs on the official suggested lube it is not a moly enhanced product. Even the amber color suggests no moly in it.
Proper Moly enhanced products can be a good choice also. Prior to BRP Can Am publishing info about lubricating splines, I had disassembled ours and reassembled with a moly based lubricant.
I have had belt drive bikes since the early 80s. The belts normally last around 50,000 miles and the pulleys should last at least as long, even when used in dirt / sand. If the pulley is going out that soon, something is definitely wrong.
There are quite a few folks here that have belts with a lot more mileage on than 50,000 …...Mike
For anyone referring to the linked articles / products, consider the application closely.
Some spline interfaces are simply for rotational forces, such as the Spyders drive pulley.
Other applications are a combined rotational force and sliding or telescoping motion along the splines contact length.
Simply, shop smart if you deviate from Kluber Paste. Plus, you might consider spline inspections a maintenance item vs a non maintenance item.
There are quite a few folks here that have belts with a lot more mileage on than 50,000 …...Mike
Probably true, but I have to ride down 2 miles of dirt road every time I leave the house. If it rains while I am gone, the dirt road becomes mud road and sticks grit in the pulleys to help grind them down.
Update on my Sprocket “ Fix” by Star Power Sports in Roanoke, on Warrantee. Well Folks, their “ Fix”, what ever they did, lasted 12,000 miles and has failed again. On my ride today, the exact same symptoms started again, with whining and squealing, along with grinding on deceleration at all speeds, in all gears. Also, I noticed a trail of iron powder on my garage floor this morning, which was directly under the Sprocket, so obviously must be the Culprit.I laid on my back and tried to see the Sprocket, but was unable, with out removing panels. Any way, I called my Preferred Dealer in Lynchburg, i.e. Virgil Naff Kawasaki, who said to bring it in for Diagnoses. Its 50 miles away, and I will drive it there tomorrow, and leave it, expecting to be cheated out of another Summer riding my Spyder. Looks like my Harley will have to keep me occupied, ( and tired! ) during my Spyder’s repairs. The Factory Warrantee expires in Sept., so I should be covered. I will post the outcome. By the way, my Spyder now has 33,800 on the Odometer. It was running real great, until today, as only 2000 miles ago, I had it serviced with new Spark Plugs, Oil, Tranny and engine Filters, Air Filter, Fuel Filter, and Belt adjustment. Also, no red rust was spotted on the Sprocket then, according to the Dealer Tech. ( my diagnosis MIGHT be wrong, and it could be a failed Bearing on the Drive Shaft, as the same symptoms are similar.)
Originally Posted by 007james
I agree that we need at least two in the garage after 70, especially if we don’t want any down time between break downs. At 76, I can’t wait to see another year’s newest Models, because I could break down any day along with my Spyder, which broke down with Sproket failure in May and was down for 2-1/2 months before getting repaired. Meanwhile, I bought a 2009 Harley Heritage, and learned all over again how to manuver the 800 lb. Beast around, as I quit riding my Kawi Vulcan 1500 when I turned 70 and bought my first Spyder. But 3 weeks ago, my Harley broke down leaving me stranded when all of the Electrical went out. So, now I am riding my Spyder again while waiting for the Harley to get repaired. But its already getting too cold to ride the Harley, so I might be 77 before its warm enough to ride it again! By that time, I might be ready for only a Wheel Chair, so again, after 70, we gotta keep a spare or two in the garage! Good luck selling your F3. I only got $8000 Trade on my 2012 RT Limited when I traded it for my 2016 RT Limited. Now if the Rykers had been out then, and I was a Newbie to Spyders, I would have bought the used RT rather than the new Ryker for almost the same money. It really will be interesting to see how the Market swings, and if there will be as many Bugs in the Rykers as we have experienced with the RTs and F3s, such as Alingment, Tire wear, Nanny Codes, nada nada nada. Surely, there has to be issues that will need debugging in the new Rykers as well. Nothing man made can be perfect!
So I have been thinking about using this since the solution changed from locking things down. Just been waiting to do my rear tire change at the same time.
Have had it around all my life as my dad was a navy and merchant marine, ship board maintenance electrician.
Regards,
Don
BTW: Don't get it on your hands or clothing. It doesn't wash out.
"Mariner's Choice NMCBT-8, Marine Grade Never Seez, provides extreme pressure lubrication and protects against seizure, galling, and corrosion both above and below the water line. Use on winches, cables, bilge pumps, anchor lines, porthole studs, rigging, hoist cables, suspension bridges, wind turbines, offshore rigging, or other applications exposed to harsh salt water and freshwater conditions. Requires about 41% less torque while providing the same clamping force on threads. Perfect for high moisture environments!" neverseez-mariners-choice__11334.1516048593.jpg
Well it took a few more miles than most but..... 30,500 miles. 2016 F3T SM6 yesterday the shaft splines on mine went. Bolt was not loose, I've never spun tires or done any crazy shifts. Luck was with me I had been on the Cherohala Skyway the day before. Spun coming up out of Vogel State Park in Blairsville, Ga.
I guess tomorrow I'll call the folks at Central Fl. Pwr Sports and see what can be done.
SIGPIC]2
2016 F3T Lamonster RIP boards, fog lights, Longhorn mirror lights, power plate. SpyderPops skid plate. Painted the silver air intake and grill.
Progress Update: Well, Folks, I picked up my Spyder from my Dealer today, and put 100 miles on it after they did another “ FIX” on Warrantee per BRP Factory instructions. My diagnosis was correct. The Sprocket splines were stripped again, so BRP authorized another new Sprocket, supposedly improved over the last two that failed. This one is hardened, according to BRP so should last longer. They also changed the Bolt, and used what ever “ Gorilla Glue” on the shaft and Sprocket mating splines as BRP supplied. The Dealer supplied BRP with photos as they were deciding what to do. As others have posted, the Dealer first could not figure out how to get the Sprocket off the shaft, as it was frozen on. So they had the engine all unbolted to be removed from the frame, and they planned to split the Case and remove the entire shaft. But BRP came up with a solution how to remove the Sprocket from the shaft , with out removing the engine. They finally succeeded, and I guess BRP looked at the shaft photos and decided the shaft splines were not damaged enough to replace the shaft. So it appears, they did the EXACT same “FIX” as they did a year ago, that lasted 12,000 miles. But if this Sprocket is a new designed hardened Sprocket, than time will tell how long this one will last. But I have decided to purchase the 3 year Extended B.E.S.T. Warrantee when the Factory Warrantee soon expires. I expect this Sprocket failure issue to resurface again. So, this time, my Spyder was tied up 2-1/2 months again, the same as last Summer. My Harley has been getting the attention, but I just bought a new Red Chevy Camaro 2SS with 455 H.P. with every Bell & Whistle option available. So, life must go on, while sick Spyders are in the Hospital.
Originally Posted by Gwolf
Probably true, but I have to ride down 2 miles of dirt road every time I leave the house. If it rains while I am gone, the dirt road becomes mud road and sticks grit in the pulleys to help grind them down.
Progress Update: Well, Folks, I picked up my Spyder from my Dealer today, and put 100 miles on it after they did another “ FIX” on Warrantee per BRP Factory instructions. My diagnosis was correct. The Sprocket splines were stripped again, so BRP authorized another new Sprocket, supposedly improved over the last two that failed. This one is hardened, according to BRP so should last longer. They also changed the Bolt, and used what ever “ Gorilla Glue” on the shaft and Sprocket mating splines as BRP supplied. The Dealer supplied BRP with photos as they were deciding what to do. As others have posted, the Dealer first could not figure out how to get the Sprocket off the shaft, as it was frozen on. So they had the engine all unbolted to be removed from the frame, and they planned to split the Case and remove the entire shaft. But BRP came up with a solution how to remove the Sprocket from the shaft , with out removing the engine. They finally succeeded, and I guess BRP looked at the shaft photos and decided the shaft splines were not damaged enough to replace the shaft. So it appears, they did the EXACT same “FIX” as they did a year ago, that lasted 12,000 miles. But if this Sprocket is a new designed hardened Sprocket, than time will tell how long this one will last. But I have decided to purchase the 3 year Extended B.E.S.T. Warrantee when the Factory Warrantee soon expires. I expect this Sprocket failure issue to resurface again. So, this time, my Spyder was tied up 2-1/2 months again, the same as last Summer. My Harley has been getting the attention, but I just bought a new Red Chevy Camaro 2SS with 455 H.P. with every Bell & Whistle option available. So, life must go on, while sick Spyders are in the Hospital.
I've followed this disaster since you first posted ...imho the real problem may be the people who are working on your Spyder …… good luck ….. Mike
I took the Spyder out of the Shop with out any Paper Work , and was told to put some miles on it next week while the Service Mgr. is on Vacation, then we will catch up. He didn’t want me to loose another week of riding while he was on Vacation. I expect to eventually receive the proper Paper Work, and if the Part Number of the Sprocket is on it, I will post it here on this Thread. I think we then would see if its the same old soft Inventory Sprocket using a new Hardened Story. No doubt, The Factory Reps. know my Factory Warrantee expires soon, so another old soft Sprocket from the Inventory Bin should out last my Warrantee. I was VERY surprised to hear my Shaft Splines were still O.K. But if the Shaft is Case Hardened, Heat Treated Steel, and the Sprocket is untreated soft steel, its understandable. But happening twice, and freezing up on the shaft
with out stripping the Shaft Splines
also, is a surprise. But actually, in the Big picture, I am pleased they did not have to remove the engine and split the case, because all of that would , or could, cause lots of future Coolant and Oil leaks from possible nicks in the casing mates, or Gaskets not sealing properly, and many more possibilities. Also, its good to know that the Shaft Bearing on the inside of the Case is O.K. The squealing and grinding have disappeared again, like it did after the first Fix a year ago. I have requested another Factory Warrantee Extension from BRP for another Summer of down time. Will also report back here with their decision. Either way, I definitely am planning to add the 3 year B.E.S.T. Warrantee Extension.
007James
Originally Posted by SpyderCruiser
Would love the part number for this new improved front sprocket. Hope this repair holds up for you this time.
I took the Spyder out of the Shop with out any Paper Work , and was told to put some miles on it next week while the Service Mgr. is on Vacation, then we will catch up. He didn’t want me to loose another week of riding while he was on Vacation. I expect to eventually receive the proper Paper Work, and if the Part Number of the Sprocket is on it, I will post it here on this Thread. I think we then would see if its the same old soft Inventory Sprocket using a new Hardened Story. No doubt, The Factory Reps. know my Factory Warrantee expires soon, so another old soft Sprocket from the Inventory Bin should out last my Warrantee. I was VERY surprised to hear my Shaft Splines were still O.K. But if the Shaft is Case Hardened, Heat Treated Steel, and the Sprocket is untreated soft steel, its understandable. But happening twice, and freezing up on the shaft
with out stripping the Shaft Splines
also, is a surprise. But actually, in the Big picture, I am pleased they did not have to remove the engine and split the case, because all of that would , or could, cause lots of future Coolant and Oil leaks from possible nicks in the casing mates, or Gaskets not sealing properly, and many more possibilities. Also, its good to know that the Shaft Bearing on the inside of the Case is O.K. The squealing and grinding have disappeared again, like it did after the first Fix a year ago. I have requested another Factory Warrantee Extension from BRP for another Summer of down time. Will also report back here with their decision. Either way, I definitely am planning to add the 3 year B.E.S.T. Warrantee Extension.
007James
I was under the impression, you had plans to weld the pulley securely to the gearbox shaft, expecting to end the concerns for you.
That was once all the Warrantees expired and I was on my own. But had the Sprocket been welded on to the Shaft this time, the Dealer would not have helped me. Hopefully, BRP really HAS come up with a new improved version of the Pulley, which is Heat Treated Steel, and will solve the ongoing problem. Time will tell. No doubt, there are still many hundreds of Sprockets on RTs and Fs out there that have not had enough miles put on them yet to strip the soft splines. BRP has to address the problem sooner or later, with a permanent Fix, so maybe they really now have come up with a new hardened Sprocket.
Originally Posted by PMK
I was under the impression, you had plans to weld the pulley securely to the gearbox shaft, expecting to end the concerns for you.
BRP approved my out of warranty sprocket repair. Mine had 30k+ at failure. They ordered a new sprocket and bolt. Hopefully I'll get it back by the end of the week. I love my F3T and was real lucky the sprocket went in the state park where we were staying rather than on the Cherohala Skyway the day before. The reliability issue is starting to make me wonder if I shouldn't start looking for another bike... I'm retired and the bike is our primary mode of transportation when we travel (bike rides on a tandom axle utility trailer) behind our 03 motorhome.
Pat
SIGPIC]2
2016 F3T Lamonster RIP boards, fog lights, Longhorn mirror lights, power plate. SpyderPops skid plate. Painted the silver air intake and grill.
Even Cast Iron can be Heat Treated to harden it. It was done in many of the Metal Finishing Shops I worked for, in my past.
It depends on the Composition of the Metal. Baking in Ovens using Nitrogen circulation will reduce Heat Scale Build up on the parts, and dipping the parts in Oil right out of the Bake Oven will impregnate the pores of the Metal to lesson corrosion and rusting, as has been happening with the Spyder Sprockets. If unsatisfactory Heat Scale Build up occurs on the Sprockets, the Sprockets can always be Glass Bead blasted to remove the outer Heat Scale. It all depends on how many of the old, untreated Soft Sprockets BRP has left in Inventory that they will keep using on Warrantees before they change their Sprocket Vendors. https://flametreatingsystems.com/custom-systems/
Originally Posted by Madison Sully
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