Blue tooth comm units

[MOSESS]

Hi all, I have for years used J&M products and have always been pleased with there ease of use. The R T presents a challenge to there wired system witch I prefer. Due mounting issues and I am forced to go with a blue tooth unit. I have head several opinions over the years but now I am ready. this is what I need it to do. intercoms ,music ,cell ,Nav CB...this subject has been covered here in the past I only hope to get positive feed back because I don't want to make a mistake spending funds on an item that will only be sent back or sold at a huge loss. thanks guys and gal.....

[Spyder 42]

Hi all, I have for years used J&M products and have always been pleased with there ease of use. The R T presents a challenge to there wired system witch I prefer. Due mounting issues and I am forced to go with a blue tooth unit. I have head several opinions over the years but now I am ready. this is what I need it to do. intercoms ,music ,cell ,Nav CB...this subject has been covered here in the past I only hope to get positive feed back because I don't want to make a mistake spending funds on an item that will only be sent back or sold at a huge loss. thanks guys and gal.....

Greetings,

your profile doesn't say which RT you have so I'm going to go off the premise that you do not have the BRP installed GPS. Where do you want to get your music? From your phone or off a music player on your GPS? Just attempting to get some boundaries on the query so you get info that helps.

If you want to stay with J&M, you could use the CB2003 on a LaMonster spyder cuff then run the wiring back to your passenger. This would not be a OEM system but the CB2003 with the proper additional cabling and connectors gets you everything you want.

Going the BT route could be accomplished with Sena headsets and the appropriate transceiver and cables from Sena to connect to a handheld CB unit. The SR-10 is made to connect a handheld CB to a Sena headset. If you want music from the RT radio, the Sena SM-10 will take that audio feed and send it to the headsets. GPS integration depends on which GPS you have and how you connect it (OEM installed or aftermarket).

HTH

[trikerbiker645]

Mosess,
Our group bought [6] Sena 20S units [I got out voted] and can honestly say we are all less than thrilled with them. We all came from Collett Communicators which worked awesome in all areas but you had to be connected to a battery pack [makes for great power and range] which a couple of the group didn't like. Hardly any hand touching required. Worked great, awesome distance, not just line of sight as is a RF signal plus with bluetooth for music and such. You and others in group just had to talk into mic and it also had a privacy channel. Been around a long time, originally developed for snowmobiles, waterproof, not affected by temperature. If only they could get a battery that doesn't require being tethered to it.
Having said that I'll get back to Sena's. First we have only did some short local trips as a group but noticed these Issues -not waterproof, distance is poor, line of sight only, if semi cuts in the pack your done hearing from the front bikes till you get back in sight line. Work terrible when running close twisties, mostly useless for quickly emergency warning of group members of things. Lots of interference /popcorn type noise in group riding. Units randomly just quit syncing and unit has to be reset which then leaves you out of the group till the leader shuts group off and restarts it. Usually not till the next rest stop. Only the group leader can turn on and off group ride. Sena voice commands seldom work. If you want to answer phone, voice command or the phone button doesn't work 95% of the time, you have to answer by using/ touching the phone answer button. FM radio will only get the very very close stations. The more units in group the closer the mic has to be and the louder you have to talk and the more choppy your voice sounds. Way more complicated than needs to be and too much hand off the handlebar movements needed. We've been in contact with Company numerous times with a canned answer that they are aware of these + other issues and are working on them and that update 1.7 should address the problems...when, who knows. They just came out with 1.6.1 revision which didnt seem to help any of the above issues.
Now having said all this if you only have 2 units hooked up / paired together they work awesome in all phases of operation, fairly decent with three units then downhill from there. If Sena doesn't fix the issues we will probably be putting them on the garage shelf and looking at something else or go back to Collett.
We are leaving this Sunday 26th on another group ride so we will see how things go as it a 6 day longer trip. safe riding!

[copilot]

Maybe check into Scala rider pack talk by Cardo Systems

[Gray Ghost]

We have Sena SMH-10 headsets. Before the Spyder we had a J&M CB on the wife's Kawi and OEM CB on my Venture. We still ride the two wheelers but don't bother to mess with the wired systems anymore. We use the intercoms when riding two up, or separately and haven't had any big difficulty with them. We don't use VOX for the most part because we use 3/4 helmets and wind noise does trigger the microphones.

We used the system in a trip round the 48 over 71 days, rain and dry. No problems with water even in some heavy downpours. And as long as we weren't using VOX the batteries lasted all day, recharged at night.

A few times I have had to call customer support. They have always come through for me, even though we are past warranty on the sets. I highly recommend them, and we have a sponsor on the forum (motorcycle dave) that can give you more information on the options with them.

[MOSESS]

I own 15 RT-S . I had a 2003 J&M setup . thing worked great. I don't want to go back to cables but J&M sounded great. I do want to listen to the radio on the bike and listen to Pandora ..the only reason I am coming to you guys is I trying to spend smart money..I have elite headsets in three helmet's and I was looking at the cost to switch over..thanks

[jcthorne]

Mosess,
Our group bought [6] Sena 20S units [I got out voted] and can honestly say we are all less than thrilled with them. We all came from Collett Communicators which worked awesome in all areas but you had to be connected to a battery pack [makes for great power and range] which a couple of the group didn't like. Hardly any hand touching required. Worked great, awesome distance, not just line of sight as is a RF signal plus with bluetooth for music and such. You and others in group just had to talk into mic and it also had a privacy channel. Been around a long time, originally developed for snowmobiles, waterproof, not affected by temperature. If only they could get a battery that doesn't require being tethered to it.
Having said that I'll get back to Sena's. First we have only did some short local trips as a group but noticed these Issues -not waterproof, distance is poor, line of sight only, if semi cuts in the pack your done hearing from the front bikes till you get back in sight line. Work terrible when running close twisties, mostly useless for quickly emergency warning of group members of things. Lots of interference /popcorn type noise in group riding. Units randomly just quit syncing and unit has to be reset which then leaves you out of the group till the leader shuts group off and restarts it. Usually not till the next rest stop. Only the group leader can turn on and off group ride. Sena voice commands seldom work. If you want to answer phone, voice command or the phone button doesn't work 95% of the time, you have to answer by using/ touching the phone answer button. FM radio will only get the very very close stations. The more units in group the closer the mic has to be and the louder you have to talk and the more choppy your voice sounds. Way more complicated than needs to be and too much hand off the handlebar movements needed. We've been in contact with Company numerous times with a canned answer that they are aware of these + other issues and are working on them and that update 1.7 should address the problems...when, who knows. They just came out with 1.6.1 revision which didnt seem to help any of the above issues.
Now having said all this if you only have 2 units hooked up / paired together they work awesome in all phases of operation, fairly decent with three units then downhill from there. If Sena doesn't fix the issues we will probably be putting them on the garage shelf and looking at something else or go back to Collett.
We are leaving this Sunday 26th on another group ride so we will see how things go as it a 6 day longer trip. safe riding!

What we found made larger groups work much better was pairing them in sets of two, then linking each of the pair to one of the sets in another pair. This creates a mesh network that is far more reliable. Everyone still get the entire conversation of all 8 radios. Its actually possible to extend the group beyond 8 this way. Each headset is actually only linked to two other units.

We currently own 4 of the SENA 20S units and ride with other folks that also use them. Range is pretty amazing in a mesh network group. Distance from front rider to rear most rider can be well over a mile. Line of site is NOT necessary and a simple semi between two riders does not block the signal. Half mile or so between linked sets is easily attainable. You have to raise the folded antenna on the 20S for them to work. They are FAR better than the Sena SMH-10R units we used to have. Great noise rejection/cancellation and crystal clear sound quality.

All this said, I seldom answer the phone with it but simply taping the side button when the phone rings answers the call. U use it linked to my cell phone for music all the time. Its ability to do music and intercom at the same time is very good.

[trikerbiker645]

Jcthorne, Maybe we can trade headsets, you must have got some good ones or figured out a better way than Sena to get them to work better. We'd be happier than slop fed hogs if ours worked like that. We also did try the "mesh" type setup the way the CS gal at Sena said do it which was different and we still had all kinds of noise issues and distance issues. So to do your way see if I have this correct. We are 3 couples with 6 units. So step 1 my wife and I would pair to each other call us headsets [A&B], step ​2 the 2nd couple would pair to each other, headsets [C&D] step 3, the 3rd couple would pair to each other, headsets [E&F] step 4 Then I would pair with driver [C]. Then driver [C] would pair with driver [E]? Does [E] then pair with anyone? Do the 3 wives then pair as us drivers did with [B] pairing to [D] and [D] pairing to [F] ? Does [F] pair to anyone then?




Tried to talk replacements but Sena said that it was just a firmware issue and all will be hunky dory when 1.7 comes out..........whenever. Safe riding!

[MOSESS]

I am not that into group riding here nj , cant get these guys together if you bribed them so I am only looking to talk and listen to wife when she is with me and music. If it was possible to do a cb great but now after reading all the posts and talking to a J&m rep. I am no further along then when I started this thread. thanks guys sorry I brought this up....

[trikerbiker645]

Mosses, for 2 units the Sena work great as I stated in my first post. Good Luck with yourdecision.

[3-togo]

I own 15 RT-S . I had a 2003 J&M setup . thing worked great. I don't want to go back to cables but J&M sounded great. I do want to listen to the radio on the bike and listen to Pandora ..the only reason I am coming to you guys is I trying to spend smart money..I have elite headsets in three helmet's and I was looking at the cost to switch over..thanks

Hello,
we purchased the Sena smh10s about 2 mo. Before the upgraded smh 10s was produced. The 20s and new smh10s speakers are reputed to be a major upgrade over the smh10. I can testify to the speakers in the Smh10. They are only adequate for intercom and phone. Terrible for listening to my IPhone. Not sure about listening to music while riding but the poor quality in smh10 means I will use for intercom/ gps/ phone. Can't speak for the other units.
Pete

[jcthorne]

Jcthorne, Maybe we can trade headsets, you must have got some good ones or figured out a better way than Sena to get them to work better. We'd be happier than slop fed hogs if ours worked like that. We also did try the "mesh" type setup the way the CS gal at Sena said do it which was different and we still had all kinds of noise issues and distance issues. So to do your way see if I have this correct. We are 3 couples with 6 units. So step 1 my wife and I would pair to each other call us headsets [A&B], step ​2 the 2nd couple would pair to each other, headsets [C&D] step 3, the 3rd couple would pair to each other, headsets [E&F] step 4 Then I would pair with driver [C]. Then driver [C] would pair with driver [E]? Does [E] then pair with anyone? Do the 3 wives then pair as us drivers did with [B] pairing to [D] and [D] pairing to [F] ? Does [F] pair to anyone then?




Tried to talk replacements but Sena said that it was just a firmware issue and all will be hunky dory when 1.7 comes out..........whenever. Safe riding!

You started off right

A - B
C - D
E - F

B - C
D - E
F - A

In this mesh, each radio is linked to two others and would need to loose both connections for the network to fail.

There were problems with some of the early units. I had one pair that had to be exchanged. They would not even accept the firmware updates. All our radios are running 1.6.1 now but 1.6 was working fine. Would like to figure out how the new GPS function in 1.6.1 works so we could link our Nuvi GPS. Have not seen any instructions update for the new feature.

We have been very happy with these. Just seems I was lucky and got a better CS agent when I called Sena. Good luck.

[jcthorne]

Hello,
we purchased the Sena smh10s about 2 mo. Before the upgraded smh 10s was produced. The 20s and new smh10s speakers are reputed to be a major upgrade over the smh10. I can testify to the speakers in the Smh10. They are only adequate for intercom and phone. Terrible for listening to my IPhone. Not sure about listening to music while riding but the poor quality in smh10 means I will use for intercom/ gps/ phone. Can't speak for the other units.
Pete

You can purchase aftermarket upgraded speakers for them for not a lot of money.

The 20s speakers are much better.

[trikerbiker645]

JCTHORNE, THANKS, If the group one doesn't work as Sena said to do it we will definitely set up your way. So question's again if you don't mind. Is intercom on all the time then or only when someone hits the jog dial? I assume anyone can turn on or off intercom then because everyone wants to listen to their music. Do you leave multitasking on or off. I also assume you set up units and not set u via phone app. Thanks again man! Appreciate it. Safe riding!

[jcthorne]

JCTHORNE, THANKS, If the group one doesn't work as Sena said to do it we will definitely set up your way. So question's again if you don't mind. Is intercom on all the time then or only when someone hits the jog dial? I assume anyone can turn on or off intercom then because everyone wants to listen to their music. Do you leave multitasking on or off. I also assume you set up units and not set u via phone app. Thanks again man! Appreciate it. Safe riding!

We use multitasking and leave intercom on all the time. Perhaps the improvements SENA is talking about in group mode will make all of this a moot point. Would be nice.

I do the pairing manually using the buttons on the units. But other than that, I use my smart phone app. My wifes is linked but she only uses the phone for music and calls. Others in the group do not have the sena app installed that I know of.

Glad to help where I can. Hope some of this works for your group.

[trikerbiker645]

Ok Group,
I just wanted to check in after our 1200 mile 6 person group ride to report how our communicators worked out, or didn't work out. We paired up as recommended by Jcthorne and thanks for all your suggestions by the way. Now, we did not get the results you have. Distance is still terrible less than 3/4 mile and I'd say pretty much line of sight or voice would break up beyond understanding what was said. The popcorn noise and sewing machine noise is ridiculous with intercom constant on and also if you keep group intercom on no one can hear music, multi-tasking feature doesn't seem to work regardless of the sensitivity settings. I think the mics are actually tripped on all the time but what do I know. We then tried settings as to the Sena manual again....same results. We were finally able to get it so we could communicate with our spouses, hear music when we weren't and only way to get everyone on a group intercom was to connect with one pair tell them to contact the other pair then we could all talk as a group. To disconnect we would then all have to beep off....not real handy but if we didn't no one could have music or a private chat with spouse. Hopefully if 1.7 revision ever comes true it will cure a lot of these problems. Too bad because they work great for a couple but start adding in the 3rd or 4th or more and it all goes to crap. So my rating would be a ****4 star for a dual application and barely a 1* for anything else. I'll probably keep them this riding season to see if Sena can get things improved and if not next season will be something different. Safe riding! and a Happy 4th!

[MDBrion]

Our group (5 riders typical) bought the Sena 20S for the long list of capabilities. Now one thing about all the capabilities is that it increases the complexity required to utilize those functions.... With great power comes great responsibility ! You have to read and study the book... You have to make laminated cards of basic functions to give all the riders to refresh. Our group had 2 of the folks who struggled initially with all the functionality but eventually came around and now love the units.
A few tips... In group chat make sure ALL riders have thier antennas up and not in the stowed position, it makes a huge difference. Let the tech savvy members of the group initiate the connections. Use the phone app to configure your connections ahead of the ride... It will make changing connections a breeze whether its changing intercoms, FM stations or making cell calls. Use the voice commands, they simplify operations immensely. Lastly read the owners manual, read the owners manual, read the owners manual and make a laminated card to keep on the bike ! If you do those things you'll love the Sena 20s.

[3-togo]

We have Sena SMH-10 headsets. Before the Spyder we had a J&M CB on the wife's Kawi and OEM CB on my Venture. We still ride the two wheelers but don't bother to mess with the wired systems anymore. We use the intercoms when riding two up, or separately and haven't had any big difficulty with them. We don't use VOX for the most part because we use 3/4 helmets and wind noise does trigger the microphones.

We used the system in a trip round the 48 over 71 days, rain and dry. No problems with water even in some heavy downpours. And as long as we weren't using VOX the batteries lasted all day, recharged at night.

A few times I have had to call customer support. They have always come through for me, even though we are past warranty on the sets. I highly recommend them, and we have a sponsor on the forum (motorcycle dave) that can give you more information on the options with them.

We have the smh10 and use intercom/ gps and telephone works great. Speakers are adequate but not good for listening to music IPhone. I've thought about upgrading speakers/ adjusting location of present speakers but I'm more comfortable paying attention to my surroundings.
Pete

[trikerbiker645]

MDBRION,
This post is not because I took any offense at your post. The opposite, just trying to to get these things figured out to work properly so wanted to give you some of our info. Maybe the range issues are as good as it will get. Voice commands by just talking into the mic never seem to work. You have to push the lower button and wait for sena to ask for a command.. Multi-tasking doesn't appear to work when over 2 units are connected-no music. Then there's the noise issues. Could a mic staying active be an issue? But then why does everyone's work great with just a duo set-up? We've tried one by one covering our mic's completely to see if it made a difference, not. But maybe its more than one mic?
Our Goal- to be able to have one connected group conversation without having to have everyone relay things and pushing buttons, also be able to listen to our music, and if possible have a private conversation with our spouse's and not be knocked out of group intercom. Maybe it isnt possible with this system. We do make sure everyone's antenna's are up, we do use the phone app and we had a little group user class. Also had a Sena CS rep walk us thru the step by step pairing and set up for 6 units that he said would/should work. Problem is it was different than another CS rep told us. Tried so many things can't remember them all, factory resets, fault resets, etc. All units are set to 8 way intercom, all are on multi-tasking with different sensitivity overlay settings. I agree with reading the manual and have about 25 hrs in on these units and with Sena CS so I believe I pretty much know what is supposed to be done but nothing seems to work quite right. I wish they had a live hands on seminar class to make sure we are indeed doing things right. A couple questions about your group rides if you dont mind.
1] do you notice the popcorn, sewing machine noise when intercom is constantly on and you have more than 2 units connected?
2] do any of your group listen to music?
3] what would you say is your talk distance with 5 units/ riders?
4] can you have a private conversation with your spouse?
5]how would you pair or set up things to reach our goals? thanks for your info and time. Safe riding!

[robmorg]

I am not that into group riding here nj , cant get these guys together if you bribed them so I am only looking to talk and listen to wife when she is with me and music. If it was possible to do a cb great but now after reading all the posts and talking to a J&m rep. I am no further along then when I started this thread. thanks guys sorry I brought this up....

What you want is a pair of the new 10S headsets from Sena. They have all the capabilities of the 20S, except for the large group functions, but they are smaller and IMO a bit better looking on your helmet. I just upgraded to the 10S from the older SMH10, which was a top rated unit when it was introduced. But as jcthorne said above, the new "S" series are a huge improvement - not only for music and intercom sound, but the bluetooth and pairing functions have also been improved. They just seem to work flawlessly, with lots of flexible pairing options.

Then you may also want an SM10 Bluetooth Dongle to feed the Spyder entertainment system output into the headsets. Motorcycle Dave, a forum sponsor, can fix you up with everything you need at a good price. He'll also supply a harness to attache the SM10 to the Spyder entertainment system for FAR less money than the BRP kit.

If you are not concerned with large group communications and only want to talk with a passenger (and possibly sometimes one or two other bikes), and you want to interface with your GPS, music, and phone, the 10S is the way to go, IMO. I absolutely love mine. The intercom is also backwards compatible with older Sena headsets.