RTS Swaybar on F3S

[netsecguy]

I've read a few threads that talk about putting an RT sway bar on the F3S and that it makes a difference. Anyone know difference between RT sway bar and BajaRon's sway bar for the F3S? I had a 2013 RTS that I upgraded with the BajaRon and it made all the difference in the world. Also, will the 2013 RT sway bar fit on a F3S or does it require a newer sway bar? If newer then I will purchase the BajaRon one built for the F3S. Thanks.

[4 MARIE]

I don't know if 2013 2014 swaybars are same or not, but I DO know the OEM 2014 bar IS an upgrade
for the F3 (obviously not the same upgrade as BajaRon) because I sent mine to a member in Hawaii.

[Lastchance]

According to this site and others the 13 thru 15 baja-ron bars are the same, but BRP part numbers are different for 13 and 14, it should fit but you will need the mount blocks from your 13 bar, I just put a 14 bar in my F3 outside Dia. is .630 or just over 5/8 inch, hope this helps a little

http://spyderpops.com/rt-2013-up-baj...num-end-links/

[Copperman]

I don't know the technical jargon, but my understanding is the OEM swaybar for the RT's is an upgrade for the F3's. The BaJaRon swaybar for the RT's is too stiff for the F3's and should not be used. I think it has to do with the weight of the bike.

Maybe BajaRon will chime in and give us the official word.

[pauly1]

2014 and newer from the RT will fit the F3. The stock F3 torsion bar is 9/16 or 0.5625 (plus the paint). The RT bar is 5/8 or 0.625 (plus the paint). By calculation, the RT bar is ~40% stiffer than the stock F3 bar (2015 for sure, I haven't checked the 2016's). It firms up the cornering without being too stiff. The price for a new stock RT torsion bar is $67 US plus the mounting blocks/bushings of about $15 US. I did our second F3 this morning and just drilled out the mounting blocks/bushings because I didn't get them with the RT take-off torsion bar (not too many people will have a 5/8 drill bit laying around, I know).

Note: BajaRon makes a good product! We've got his product on SpyderDeb's ST Ltd.

Wayne

[Sarge707]

2014 and newer from the RT will fit the F3. The stock F3 torsion bar is 9/16 or 0.5625 (plus the paint). The RT bar is 5/8 or 0.625 (plus the paint). By calculation, the RT bar is ~40% stiffer than the stock F3 bar (2015 for sure, I haven't checked the 2016's). It firms up the cornering without being too stiff. The price for a new stock RT torsion bar is $67 US plus the mounting blocks/bushings of about $15 US. I did our second F3 this morning and just drilled out the mounting blocks/bushings because I didn't get them with the RT take-off torsion bar (not too many people will have a 5/8 drill bit laying around, I know).

Note: BajaRon makes a good product! We've got his product on SpyderDeb's ST Ltd.

Wayne

Very Good Info. Note that if you purchase a 2014-2016 RT sway bar for your F3 (As I will Do) you should get the appropriate Bushings for the RT Bar of that year because they are probably designed for the extra weight/Pressure!!!

[Sam Mac]

I have a bar, the mounts and links off my 2014 RTL for sale. $50.00 delivered PM me if interested.

Edit: Sold

[PMK]

I also have an RT swaybar off our 14 RTS and the bar pivot blocks for sale. $50 shipped to the lower 48 works also, or local pickup for less.

[Trevor G]

I've read a few threads that talk about putting an RT sway bar on the F3S and that it makes a difference. .

I haven't done it to our F3 but I think I know the answer. I don't think it will do anything materially worthwhile...

Our 2009 RS is tricked out with all sorts of performance options including sway bar and Elka front shocks. I can easily lift the inside front wheel around 15 to 30mph corners whenever I want to, and would normally do that at least twice a short ride, just for the sheer fun and exhilaration of it. ;-)

It came with an orange after-market sway bar, and I was told at the Spyderfest in Durango in 2014 that it was junk, so I had an RT bar fitted. The big thing we noticed with the RS was that it leaned a lot during cornering, so much so that it felt unnerving. There was no real improvement with the RT bar.

We also had the upper shock relocation bracket fitted because that would make it more like the improved '13+ models. It had no real effect either. I now know why.

We rode 2014 models at Durango and it was very obvious that even the stock RT would corner much faster and flatter than the RS, so we spent no more money trying to improve it and bought a very low mileage F3-S in February - stock everything except for that beautifully throaty Akrapovic. Yes, even though the rear suspension was on the bump stop two-up, and even though it would bottom out with one rider aboard, it was a night and day improvement over the RS in handling.

Try as I might I have not succeeded in lifting an inside front wheel on the F3.

One-up or two-up, entering freeway on ramps from a stop, I can apply so much power that it is noticeable, even to my wife on the back, that it is starting to slide, but is kept under control by the stability control system. I would never dare try that on the RS because it simply did not feel stable, especially with a passenger. When I ride pillion, which is frequently, I have no fears about how hard my wife drives; in fact, I keep urging her to corner faster, which she does. The F3 leans out somewhat, but not like the RS, and never is fear-inducing.

Why? The radical relocation of the A-arm suspension pivot points in 2013 or 2014 is what made all the difference.

Does anyone need a different sway bar on an F3? Probably not. A different rear shock, or different springing, though, is essential if you have more than 100lbs on the rider's seat.

[Sarge707]

I haven't done it to our F3 but I think I know the answer. I don't think it will do anything materially worthwhile...

Our 2009 RS is tricked out with all sorts of performance options including sway bar and Elka front shocks. I can easily lift the inside front wheel around 15 to 30mph corners whenever I want to, and would normally do that at least twice a short ride, just for the sheer fun and exhilaration of it. ;-)

It came with an orange after-market sway bar, and I was told at the Spyderfest in Durango in 2014 that it was junk, so I had an RT bar fitted. The big thing we noticed with the RS was that it leaned a lot during cornering, so much so that it felt unnerving. There was no real improvement with the RT bar.

We also had the upper shock relocation bracket fitted because that would make it more like the improved '13+ models. It had no real effect either. I now know why.

We rode 2014 models at Durango and it was very obvious that even the stock RT would corner much faster and flatter than the RS, so we spent no more money trying to improve it and bought a very low mileage F3-S in February - stock everything except for that beautifully throaty Akrapovic. Yes, even though the rear suspension was on the bump stop two-up, and even though it would bottom out with one rider aboard, it was a night and day improvement over the RS in handling.

Try as I might I have not succeeded in lifting an inside front wheel on the F3.

One-up or two-up, entering freeway on ramps from a stop, I can apply so much power that it is noticeable, even to my wife on the back, that it is starting to slide, but is kept under control by the stability control system. I would never dare try that on the RS because it simply did not feel stable, especially with a passenger. When I ride pillion, which is frequently, I have no fears about how hard my wife drives; in fact, I keep urging her to corner faster, which she does. The F3 leans out somewhat, but not like the RS, and never is fear-inducing.

Why? The radical relocation of the A-arm suspension pivot points in 2013 or 2014 is what made all the difference.

Does anyone need a different sway bar on an F3? Probably not. A different rear shock, or different springing, though, is essential if you have more than 100lbs on the rider's seat.

Very Interesting because I Have the BajaRon sway bar on my 2012 RT and swear by it BUT the F3 seems to corner Much Better Stock than even my 2009 GS with the BajaRon Sway Bar? The BajaRon Sway Bars are Great But I really start to wonder if its really needed on my F3. I am starting to think that 2 Up Shock might be the Best $$ spent on my 2015 F3 because its Easier to install and people seem to Really like the Results?

[Trevor G]

I am starting to think that 2 Up Shock might be the Best $$ spent on my 2015 F3 because its Easier to install and people seem to Really like the Results?

The oem 2016 "two up" shock is not a real solution since it only has one, single rate spring - it is simply not practically possible to get plush, non-bottoming rear suspension for two people using a 2 3/4" shaft travel shock.

The Elka rear shock comes standard with 2 springs - a short 800lb/in spring and a longer 700lb/in spring.

Until the shorter spring reaches the end of its travel it combines with the longer spring to give a rate of 375 lb/in, which is somewhat less than the "two up" shock single spring rate. I'm not sure what it is, but it is evidently firmer than the 2015 shock, the spring of which tests out at 400 lb/in.

Somewhere around 2" of shaft travel the short spring reaches the end of its travel and so the 700lb/in spring takes over. If you set the preload correctly you will be riding with about 2" of shaft travel remaining, which means that with a 350lb rider and passenger combo most of your riding will be on the softer, 375lb/in part of the travel. The remaining 700lb/in section is for those really big hits and is meant to stop you bottoming out.

You can dummy-up the oem shock by using a spacer under the spring - however, the shock still has insufficient compression damping and so will lead to bottoming on really big hits, two-up. The sway bar has no effect on rear suspension capabilities.

[Sarge707]

The oem 2016 "two up" shock is not a real solution since it only has one, single rate spring - it is simply not practically possible to get plush, non-bottoming rear suspension for two people using a 2 3/4" shaft travel shock.

The Elka rear shock comes standard with 2 springs - a short 800lb/in spring and a longer 700lb/in spring.

Until the shorter spring reaches the end of its travel it combines with the longer spring to give a rate of 375 lb/in, which is somewhat less than the "two up" shock single spring rate. I'm not sure what it is, but it is evidently firmer than the 2015 shock, the spring of which tests out at 400 lb/in.

Somewhere around 2" of shaft travel the short spring reaches the end of its travel and so the 700lb/in spring takes over. If you set the preload correctly you will be riding with about 2" of shaft travel remaining, which means that with a 350lb rider and passenger combo most of your riding will be on the softer, 375lb/in part of the travel. The remaining 700lb/in section is for those really big hits and is meant to stop you bottoming out.

You can dummy-up the oem shock by using a spacer under the spring - however, the shock still has insufficient compression damping and so will lead to bottoming on really big hits, two-up. The sway bar has no effect on rear suspension capabilities.

Very informative! I'm a single 215 pound rider so the 2 up makes more $ Monetary sense for Me.

[monkeyboymorton]

I've just got both of these for my F3 whilst on holiday in Florida. RT anti roll bar free off a forum member - thanks Dick (Dumbo on here) and occasional two up shock from Central Florida Powersports (thanks to Manny in parts)

I'll be fitting both in the next couple of weeks so I'll report back with how it feels.

My F3 is stock and I feel the rear suspension is way too soft and bottoms out easily one up (I weigh about 160 lbs) and I don't like the amount of lean when cornering. Hoping new shock and anti-roll bar will improve things without stiffening up the ride.

If you're interested in the shock Powersports Warehouse have it for $149.99 with free shipping, tax would only payable in South Carolina. I didn't buy from them in the end so can't comment on service - I got the local dealer to price match to save having it shipped.

I agree Elka would most likely be better but at $600 I don't see it being 4x better and I ride two up only very occasionally.

[Sarge707]

I've just got both of these for my F3 whilst on holiday in Florida. RT anti roll bar free off a forum member - thanks Dick (Dumbo on here) and occasional two up shock from Central Florida Powersports (thanks to Manny in parts)

I'll be fitting both in the next couple of weeks so I'll report back with how it feels.

My F3 is stock and I feel the rear suspension is way too soft and bottoms out easily one up (I weigh about 160 lbs) and I don't like the amount of lean when cornering. Hoping new shock and anti-roll bar will improve things without stiffening up the ride.

If you're interested in the shock Powersports Warehouse have it for $149.99 with free shipping, tax would only payable in South Carolina. I didn't buy from them in the end so can't comment on service - I got the local dealer to price match to save having it shipped.

I agree Elka would most likely be better but at $600 I don't see it being 4x better and I ride two up only very occasionally.

Where did you see free shipping? The site estimated $18 shipping to CT, USA $168 is still better than $600?

[monkeyboymorton]

Where did you see free shipping? The site estimated $18 shipping to CT, USA $168 is still better than $600?

Sorry - my mistake, free shipping over $300. I also had heated grips in the order which took it over their threshold. You could try the price match trick with your local dealer if your state tax would be less than $18? Depends if you have a dealer nearby of course and want the hassle.

But as you say even at $168 I think it's a bargain upgrade, new shock & spring looks much beefier than the current one just by holding it up to the bike.

Should be fitting Saturday.

[No 2817]

2014 and newer from the RT will fit the F3. The stock F3 torsion bar is 9/16 or 0.5625 (plus the paint). The RT bar is 5/8 or 0.625 (plus the paint). By calculation, the RT bar is ~40% stiffer than the stock F3 bar (2015 for sure, I haven't checked the 2016's). It firms up the cornering without being too stiff. The price for a new stock RT torsion bar is $67 US plus the mounting blocks/bushings of about $15 US. I did our second F3 this morning and just drilled out the mounting blocks/bushings because I didn't get them with the RT take-off torsion bar (not too many people will have a 5/8 drill bit laying around, I know).

Note: BajaRon makes a good product! We've got his product on SpyderDeb's ST Ltd.

Wayne

Just ordered RT (2014/2015) sway bar with shipping was $77, Work in a machine shop so no problem opening up the bushing to 5/8 Dia. Thanks for the great input! Coming off a 2008 GS to the F3-T SE6 was a big improvement. The GS with RT shocks on it made all the difference in handling that was needed. With your feedback on the RT sway bar on the F3 this is an easy choice to do.

Thanks again!

[Retired 2012]

Question for those that have done this, what does it entail?
Any removal of plastic panels? How high did you have to raise it to work on it?
will be trying to do this soon, so any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
DJ

[netsecguy]

Question for those that have done this, what does it entail?
Any removal of plastic panels? How high did you have to raise it to work on it?
will be trying to do this soon, so any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
DJ

I used a floor jack to lift my F3S - pretty high and was quite unbalanced. However, I was able to unbolt the stock sway bar and get it out (very carefully). I did have jack stands under the frame just to keep it from falling on my head. I had to loosen the splash guards and twist them out of the way to get to one of the bolts for the sway bar. Keep in mind there are six bolts. Two for the Heims and four on the frame holding the sway bar on. Two of those are through the bushings and the other two are closer together and need to be removed to remove the sway bar. Otherwise you have to jack it really high. Hope that helps.

Anyway - my RTS sway bar and bushings fit and big difference in stability. I can now serpentine without feeling completely out of control. Much larger diameter bar and no cost to me - low cost to others. Happy happy happy

[monkeyboymorton]

I've just fiited the 2016 occassional 2 up shock and RT swaybar over the week-end.

Sway Bar:

Previous post is spot on about number of bolts and plastic bits to remove. Have to undo one torx screw so you can pull the plastic under tray down and you can then get at the head of bolt through the bush. To get at the nut comfortably you also need to remove the plastic leg splash guards (4 torx each plus a screw in a plastic clip). This also allows easy access to the other sleeved bolt (about 4 inches in from the bush one) which has to come out. Repeat this for both sides.

To get it high enough we used car ramps with a wind up platform at the end, should have taken a picture but forgot. Just got it high enough by putting the ramps on a downslope and levelling them out on some bricks/wood. That gave us a few extra inches.

As for the handling - massive improvement, gets rid of almost all the lean towards the outside of a turn. By far the best value handling mod you can do and is like a revelation. Gives so much more confidence you'll start going faster without even realising it.

Rear shock:

We removed the plastic undertray as we didn't have tools that would fit through the holes under the seat. Taking off the tray is time consuming and fiddly (lots more torx) made worse by the extra light pods we have in europe due to turn signal regulations (you can see them in this picture):



They are held on by 2 additional bolts under the passenger seat and when undone you have to unplug the wiring under the rear seat to get them off. Actually undoing the shock and putting the new one on took about 5 mins once all the plastic was off!!!

New shock is definitely better and gets rid of the bottoming out, but not sure it's as incredible an improvement as the sway bar. However I did fit the shock and the sway bar together so it's difficult for me to say which bit is doing what. I could be wrongly attributing some of what the shock is doing to the sway bar.

As a joint upgrade however it's a big improvement and I would wholeheartedly recommend it. For a total spend of $150 (plus tax) for the shock, $0 for the sway bar and an afternoons sweat and toil, it's a bargain.

[bscrive]

I put a RT bar on my wife's F3. She didn't find much, if any, of a difference from the stock bar. She rides pretty aggressively as well.

[pauly1]

I put a RT bar on my wife's F3. She didn't find much, if any, of a difference from the stock bar. She rides pretty aggressively as well.

Perhaps there are others issues such as low tire pressure or wheel alignment that are impacting the handling. For example, running the recommended 15 psi front tire pressure allows a lot of movement in the outside tire when cornering.

Wayne

[monkeyboymorton]

The whole thing is of course subjective. I found the difference was very noticeable.

Before the F3 almost felt like it was going to fall over if you turned in hard. I know it wasn't going to, but the excessive lean took away confidence and as a result I would go slower. The new sway bar gives flatter cornering, instilling more confidence, ergo I now corner faster.

As I also stated above some of this could be coming from the new rear shock as other owners have reported improved cornering after fitting. Overall it's like a totally new experience to ride and feels like it should have done out of the factory.

I did also lower the front pressures back down to 20 PSI as I was getting a lot of 'bobble' with them at 25, post sway bar upgrade. I put them to 25 to try and get rid of the sloppy front end but that's not needed now. 20 seems about right now.

Of course I'm now on the slippery slope and eyeing up some of the Fox 1.5 front shocks that I've seen for a good price...........

[Lastchance]

Coming off a 2 wheeler I put the RT bar on my F3 and went from not sure this three wheeler is for me to WOW I can live with this I believe I have a KEEPER here