alignment specifications

[saber504]

I'm new to Spyders and have noticed many posts about laser alignment. Does anyone know what adjustments can be made to the spyder? I,m sure toe in is adjustable but caster and camber adjustments are not obvious. What is the correct toe in setting?

When people had laser alignments, do they know what setting was off?

[Gray Ghost]

I'm new to Spyders and have noticed many posts about laser alignment. Does anyone know what adjustments can be made to the spyder? I,m sure toe in is adjustable but caster and camber adjustments are not obvious. What is the correct toe in setting?

When people had laser alignments, do they know what setting was off?

Toe is the only adjustable setting. Laser alignment aligns the front wheels to the rear wheel. When the laser targets are set in place you can easily see and measure (toe in or out and how much) exactly where the front tires are pointing.

[asp125]

What is the correct toe in / out spec, then?

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[SpyderAnn01]

What is the correct toe in / out spec, then?

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That is not a question that can be answered easily. It is dependent on the track width of the Spyder and the distance that your targets are set and other variables.

[AY4B]

I would assume you could clamp a laser level to the rear wheel and point to to a target lets say 10 feet in front of the spyder. Then take measurements to see where the center of the wheel is. Then its a matter of taking measurements where the line crosses the front end to get everything square and extend the lines forward to the target. I could probably figure it out but do not have the buds system to re program the computer. If you change where it is set now you run the risk of the computer going into limp mode.
After you get all the equipment and spend a day figuring everything out, You would be better off leaving it to a pro.

[AY4B]

The factory uses the frame as the reference point line, Rolo uses the rear wheel. It would be interesting to make 2 lines on the floor and compare the 2, then try to see if their is a way to align the rear wheel to the frame first. It would probably put the belt alingment off though.
or I would guess that the belt and sprocket gap would be touching.

[SpyderAnn01]

AY48, leave it to the pros.

[saber504]

The factory uses the frame as the reference point line, Rolo uses the rear wheel. It would be interesting to make 2 lines on the floor and compare the 2, then try to see if their is a way to align the rear wheel to the frame first. It would probably put the belt alingment off though.
or I would guess that the belt and sprocket gap would be touching.

So it would be smart to be sure the belt was aligned properly first as changing that changes the way the rear wheel is pointed.

The laser alignment described in this post reminds me of a snowmobile alignment. Where the skis are centered to the track first then toe in is set. Sure seems like you could measure toe in and its relation ship to the rear tire with equipment in your own garage. Why does the buds system need to be recalibrated? Is there a sensor that tells the computer where the handle bars are positioned? Does this impact the power steering or just the nanny systems? Seems like a minor tow adjust would not be significant to the nanny.

Does anyone know the tow in spec including the +-

[DrewNJ]

I have no clue what the official alignment specs are, but there are quite few of us that have done our own shade tree alignment with 2 lengths of angle iron attached to the wheels and 2 tape measures.
We shoot for 1/16" toe in with the weight of the rider on the Spyder. Personally, I've gone closer to 1/8" because I like the feel a bit better.
However, all of these machines had NO issues before the alignment with tire wear or pull. All of the ones I've seen have all had considerable le toe OUT.
Has worked great for us. I did have the dealer reset the sensors later on....nothing changed.

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[saber504]

I did my own, not a big deal in my opinion since it is a basic toe adjustment. Yes there are other considerations such as the centering the steering and electronics. We had no obvious pull, or centering concerns, simply the machine was crap apexing corners. The front end is similar to a race kart and it felt like an ill handling kart.

I did not use angle iron, but had the inexpensive tools already for doing my own alignments on other vehicles. Sat my friend on the bike that weighs the right amount, about my weight in gear. And set it up, works fine. Used specs that Drew mentioned.

I was thinking along the same lines. Seems that in your setup, it is critical that the jig's tape measure points plane be perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel contact points.

I use something similar for cars. As long as the spyder is not pulling, do you adjust the tie rods on both sides an equal amount so as to not change the handle bar position? is 1/8 inch adjust significant to the nanny in your experience.

[PMK]

I was thinking along the same lines. Seems that in your setup, it is critical that the jig's tape measure points plane be perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel contact points.

I use something similar for cars. As long as the spyder is not pulling, do you adjust the tie rods on both sides an equal amount so as to not change the handle bar position? is 1/8 inch adjust significant to the nanny in your experience.

This entire setup is for cars and what I bought it for.

As for the mention about the toe bars contact points, yes and no. Obviously there are things that could vary your results, but overall the Spyder is a pretty docile alignment since by design, inherently there is a lot of bumpsteer.

I also considered I have aligned much faster and more critical things in the past, the key word is tolerance. So unless you place the toe sticks on a raised white letter, the front / rear dimension are very accurately for what we are accomplishing...

[saber504]

This entire setup is for cars and what I bought it for.

As for the mention about the toe bars contact points, yes and no. Obviously there are things that could vary your results, but overall the Spyder is a pretty docile alignment since by design, inherently there is a lot of bumpsteer.

I also considered I have aligned much faster and more critical things in the past, the key word is tolerance. So unless you place the toe sticks on a raised white letter, the front / rear dimension are very accurately for what we are accomplishing...

It looked like your contact was on the wheel but the above suggests it touches the tire. What does it contact?

[PMK]

It looked like your contact was on the wheel but the above suggests it touches the tire. What does it contact?

Depends, I have used them on the tire and also with small spacers against the tires bead.

As I mentioned unless the bar is on a raised white letter the impact on alignment is minimal.

I do like many things about the laser setup, one item that does make me wonder about accuracy since I have never heard mention of the laser being tracked while spinning the wheel / hub, is that since the mount spot on the hub is a small diameter, the accuracy of the mounting is less tolerant to any debris or mounting error since a tiny amount on the hub is huge at 10 feet out.

The laser setup is a good method, with a proven following. Nothing wrong with that. Certainly better than how they do them when new at production.

[Michaelscs]

I did my own, not a big deal in my opinion since it is a basic toe adjustment. Yes there are other considerations such as the centering the steering and electronics. We had no obvious pull, or centering concerns, simply the machine was crap apexing corners. The front end is similar to a race kart and it felt like an ill handling kart.

I did not use angle iron, but had the inexpensive tools already for doing my own alignments on other vehicles. Sat my friend on the bike that weighs the right amount, about my weight in gear. And set it up, works fine. Used specs that Drew mentioned.

PMK, How did you determine the length of you horizontal bars? That would greatly effect your measurements.

Thanks

[PMK]

PMK, How did you determine the length of you horizontal bars? That would greatly effect your measurements.

Thanks

I didn't, that entire setup is available from QuickTrick or something like that. I bought it for aligning the cars and trucks we own. Tried it on the Spyder and it works fine.

[DrewNJ]

PMK, How did you determine the length of you horizontal bars? That would greatly effect your measurements.

Thanks

The length does affect the measurements considerably. That's why there is no real "magic number" anyone can post for the shade tree method.
The laser system just allows for consistent specs firing the lasers to a set distance target.

You could do the same with tapes and bars to, once you figure what works for length.
My 1/16"-1/8" is based on the bars I use personally. I don't recall the exact length and to lazy to dig them out, but they are about 3'

Don't be afraid of it. If your Spyder tracks straight just make sure you do equal adjustments to each side. Work smart or keep the tools in the box...[emoji106]

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[GearHd]

Why bother fabricating a jig when it only costs $130 to get the alignment done correctly? I could see if you had a bunch of buddies that needed there's done. But if I don't know you I'm sure not paying for some backyard fabricated alignment when I can pay $130 for a proven laser alignment. We just had our 14 ST-L laser aligned last week and it's night and day. The left front was toed out a mile.

[DrewNJ]

Why bother fabricating a jig when it only costs $130 to get the alignment done correctly? I could see if you had a bunch of buddies that needed there's done. But if I don't know you I'm sure not paying for some backyard fabricated alignment when I can pay $130 for a proven laser alignment. We just had our 14 ST-L laser aligned last week and it's night and day. The left front was toed out a mile.

Because there really isn't a necessity to fabricate anything, and cost absolutely nothing to do but a bit of time with common materials found around most garages.
Further, doing it yourself gives you the ability to dial in your own setup.
The "alignment" changes constantly as you ride and the suspension cycles, rider weight, cargo, and riding 1 or 2 up. There is no exact setting that is perfect for everyone. Its a compromise. You'd be surprised at how little adjustments affect handling, especially if your more aggressive in the turns.

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[stevehendo34]

0 +-.5mm
Anyone actually done what the service manual says--cash money.
Mine worked out just fine at 0 toe angle aligned to the frame.
Go back to high school and take trig if you want to set it to a different toe angle using whatever setup dimensions are.
But if you change it, you do have to reset those sensors to keep the VCM & DPS happy.