Belt Drive

[bradders]

Has anyone heard of a manufacturer of a longer rear drive belt?

I appreciate the issues around the OEM manufacturer being locked in to BRP and therefore not dealing with the public. Equally, I appreciate the belt is already monumentally long as it is. But knowing nothing about belt manufacture, is there such as thing as a one off belt? I appreciate its not going to be cheap, but can you even commission such a thing?

I think probably 10" longer than stock would do it.

Any info or experience would be greatly appreciated.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

...The belt on the F-3 is longer than all the others......Mike

[Sam Mac]

Here is a link for the Goodyear belt and pulley catalog

http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...log%202010.pdf

[Chupaca]

Am curious why.. the belts on the new F3's are longer that those of the other models but I do not know how much longer. Do not know of any one offering a belt this size. checking part #'s they also have the US and the EU size...

[bradders]

Here is a link for the Goodyear belt and pulley catalog

http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...log%202010.pdf

Thanks - so many choices in there so Ill give them a call and see if they can do something that works here.

[bradders]

Am curious why.. the belts on the new F3's are longer that those of the other models but I do not know how much longer. Do not know of any one offering a belt this size. checking part #'s they also have the US and the EU size...

Well, not sure how well this will go down here (albeit this forum seems the most polite and kind spirited of any I have been on)....but I was looking at a swing arm stretch. Purely for cosmetic reasons. I can't justify it beyond I think it looks cool. However the chain drive method isn't my preferred option. A longer belt seems a good starting point, assuming I can get one.

[Colin]

Am curious why.. the belts on the new F3's are longer that those of the other models but I do not know how much longer. Do not know of any one offering a belt this size. checking part #'s they also have the US and the EU size...

For some reason the F3 in New Zealand has the same belt and rear cog as the RT, but the USA F3 rear cog has 4 extra teeth on it,
I guess they wanted to be different lolol.

[Peter Aawen]

I had heard that Colin, but don't the EU, AUS, & NZ RT's (& F3's) run different rear cogs to the North American Spyders anyway?

Anyone know which spec Spyders run what number of teeth on their rear cogs?

[Bfromla]

Why belts at all?! Just to have more replacement parts & gravel damage Bikes with drive shafts are a common thing now. Just make it happen!

[Colin]

I had heard that Colin, but don't the EU, AUS, & NZ RT's (& F3's) run different rear cogs to the North American Spyders anyway?

Anyone know which spec Spyders run what number of teeth on their rear cogs?

I believe it is only the F3 is different to USA

[BajaRon]

For a swing-arm stretch you might be much better off converting to a chain, sprocket, jack shaft setup. It's already been done so you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. And you can then also go to a wider swing-arm allowing a much wider tire to be mounted.

A one-off belt is going to be horrendously expensive. If you can even find someone willing to do it at all.

[bradders]

For a swing-arm stretch you might be much better off converting to a chain, sprocket, jack shaft setup. It's already been done so you don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel. And you can then also go to a wider swing-arm allowing a much wider tire to be mounted.

A one-off belt is going to be horrendously expensive. If you can even find someone willing to do it at all.

Well yes, but this opens a whole pandoras box of decisions...

They key issue is that on the Can Am the Traction/Stability/ABS is an integrated, very sensitive system that has a default setting of Limp Mode. If any parameter is outside of an expected set of pre planned values, then its all over. Limp Mode. Whether there is a 18 wheeler semi inches from you on the freeway or you're maneuvering on your drive way, the outcome is shut it all down and limp along. Not saying its right or wrong, simply that's how it is. A car would put a light on the dash and you could drive within the limits until it's fixed. But not here.

So back to your question, why the longer belt. Well the reason is that it leaves everything stock apart from the distance the rear wheel is from the engine. Its the outcome that I think is most likely to be tolerated. The speed sensors (the rear being in the gearbox rather than the rear wheel on SE6 to make it even harder to mess with) will see the same speed and relative values, so everything should be the same. That way I get the stretched look while retaining the safety systems and avoid the Limp Mode hell I so fear.

That said, there is always the other extreme. If you're going to go custom then you might as well ditch the whole safety system. Fix the Yaw Sensor signal to its upright static signal position, likewise steering angle signal to dead ahead. Leave the wheel sensors connected and 'active' but not in the drive so they always read as if the can am is stationary. That can't be rocket science to create a fake dead ahead static safety scenario. At this point do what you like, big front wheels, oversized rear stretched wheel. You're actually riding the bike yourself and live or die on your own sword.

So that's what I am thinking....make it slightly custom within the design parameters of the safety system OR kill the lot and just do what I want and recognize I might become the next highway Lawn Dart if I need to maneuver quickly in an emergency situation!

[Bob Denman]

I can appreciate you wanting to keep the bike looking stock... but you're not building that.
Convert to chain drive, and you'll have no trouble with unwanted belt oscillations...

[billybovine]

I had heard that Colin, but don't the EU, AUS, & NZ RT's (& F3's) run different rear cogs to the North American Spyders anyway?

Anyone know which spec Spyders run what number of teeth on their rear cogs?

The NA F3 has a 89 tooth rear sprocket. International F3's and all others models and years of Spyders have the same 79 tooth rear sprocket.

[petegtsv10]

Why belts at all?! Just to have more replacement parts & gravel damage Bikes with drive shafts are a common thing now. Just make it happen!

Drive shafts are a trade-off as are most mods. You do get almost maintenance-free operation, but you will have more driveline power loss and have to suffer with the annoying feeling as the rear end lifts every time you accelerate.

[Bob Denman]

I also doubt that the cost of converting to the shaft, would be particularly cheap.

[bradders]

I can appreciate you wanting to keep the bike looking stock... but you're not building that.
Convert to chain drive, and you'll have no trouble with unwanted belt oscillations...

True.

Have you heard of anyone totally disabling the traction/stability/ABS? Did it work?

[Bootie]

According to the service manual...
US Final Drive Ratio is 28/89 or 3.18:1
Other Countries 28/79 or 2.82:1
as was mentioned above.

[Bob Denman]

True.

Have you heard of anyone totally disabling the traction/stability/ABS? Did it work?

You can spin the tire all that you can stand... in a straight line!
Traction control kicks in, when steering input is added.
I see nothing useful in disabling the safety feature...

But that's just me!

[old Timer]

Does anyone know if you can get the Other Countries 28/79 or 2.82:1 final ratio on the F3 here in the states?

If you are not a drag racer but enjoys Hi Speed cruising, it would be perfect.

Better mileage and with a 6 speed and the new 1330 engine can not see the down side.

[BajaRon]

Well yes, but this opens a whole pandoras box of decisions...

They key issue is that on the Can Am the Traction/Stability/ABS is an integrated, very sensitive system that has a default setting of Limp Mode. If any parameter is outside of an expected set of pre planned values, then its all over. Limp Mode.

How does chain drive change any of the ABS parameters? The ABS has no idea how you are driving the rear wheel. And it really doesn't care.

[Bob Denman]

Does anyone know if you can get the Other Countries 28/79 or 2.82:1 final ratio on the F3 here in the states?

If you are not a drag racer but enjoys Hi Speed cruising, it would be perfect.

Better mileage and with a 6 speed and the new 1330 engine can not see the down side.

Buy the rear pulley and sprocket off of a 1330 RT...

[Bob Denman]

How does chain drive change any of the ABS parameters? The ABS has no idea how you are driving the rear wheel. And it really doesn't care.

Thank you!

[Peter Aawen]

...how you are driving the rear wheel. And it really doesn't care.

Besides, the nanny will readily tolerate 'minor' discrepancies between wheel speed &/or sizes front to rear - testing for tyre sizes showed she really doesn't give a rats about any variations caused by tyre size differences of about 20mm +/- std spec, & that means she'll tolerate fairly significant speed differences.... just so long as you don't start adding in full effort cranking on the bars, or high yaw or roll cornering effects as well!

[old Timer]

Buy the rear pulley and sprocket off of a 1330 RT...

Thanks Bob, I would think that as long as the Nanny sees the front wheels and the rear wheel running the same speed or RPM then all things would be AOK.

The only difference would be the relationship between Wheel speed-Gear-and engine RPM.