Flashing Neutral and Reverse indication lamps / 30 tooth sprocket

[Ojonesy]

I own a 2013 spyder RS. I have fitted a 30 tooth front sprocket along with other spyder owners so as to lower the cruising rpm of the engine. The consensus is that the engine is revving needlessly as the engine produces more than enough power for touring duties, the fuel consumption figures confirm this by the same, if not better fuel consumption. I do appreciate that the acceleration figures may be slightly longer, but at the end of the day the spyder is designed more towards a touring machine than a sports machine, and certainly feels more comfortable with the lower 400rpm result. The issue is that when travelling at touring speeds (100 -110kph), the neutral and reverse indication lamps flash together with the gear selection indicator showing Eg (instead of 5g). The indications are intermittent and are not confined to just 5g at or around those speeds. I have consulted my local dealer and they report that all is fine with no fault codes being displayed by the diagnostic inspection. They can provide no fix at this point in time. I believe that there are different gearing options for different markets, so if this is the case, then I suspect that allowances or CanBus patches have been made for the computer to allow for this, assuming that it is a computer glitch in the first place. I would very much like to hear from other spyder owners who have fitted similar such sprockets and as to whether they have experienced the same issue and a fix if they have found one..I am very happy with the performance of this gearing and ideally would wish to continue with it, but not fussed with having warning lights flashing intermittently.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

..............You don't say if you have an SE trans or not......There have been some posts here about the 30 tooth sprocket .....they have said it only works well with the Manual..........Mike

[Bob Denman]

Could this just be an unrelated failure of the gear position sensor?

If you have the SM-5 transmission; the 30-tooth sprocket can be useful.
If you have the SE-5 transmission: not so much...
You need to keep the engine at or above 3,500 rpm. This allows the centrifugal engagement system to fully lock things together. If you're not spinning it fast enough; you can toast clutch plates.

[Highwayman2013]

As I have mentioned earlier it is probably a lot easier to go to a taller tire. I run a taller (5.4%) tire and have no problems. I'm sure there is a limit to this as well with the computer parameters on the bike.

[Ojonesy]

..............You don't say if you have an SE trans or not......There have been some posts here about the 30 tooth sprocket .....they have said it only works well with the Manual..........Mike

Sorry, I have a manual transmission

[Ojonesy]

Could this just be an unrelated failure of the gear position sensor?

If you have the SM-5 transmission; the 30-tooth sprocket can be useful.
If you have the SE-5 transmission: not so much...
You need to keep the engine at or above 3,500 rpm. This allows the centrifugal engagement system to fully lock things together. If you're not spinning it fast enough; you can toast clutch plates.

The dealer thought that and has changed the gear position sensor....did not resolve the issue

[billybovine]

I own a 2013 spyder RS. I have fitted a 30 tooth front sprocket along with other spyder owners so as to lower the cruising rpm of the engine. The consensus is that the engine is revving needlessly as the engine produces more than enough power for touring duties, the fuel consumption figures confirm this by the same, if not better fuel consumption. I do appreciate that the acceleration figures may be slightly longer, but at the end of the day the spyder is designed more towards a touring machine than a sports machine, and certainly feels more comfortable with the lower 400rpm result. The issue is that when travelling at touring speeds (100 -110kph), the neutral and reverse indication lamps flash together with the gear selection indicator showing Eg (instead of 5g). The indications are intermittent and are not confined to just 5g at or around those speeds. I have consulted my local dealer and they report that all is fine with no fault codes being displayed by the diagnostic inspection. They can provide no fix at this point in time. I believe that there are different gearing options for different markets, so if this is the case, then I suspect that allowances or CanBus patches have been made for the computer to allow for this, assuming that it is a computer glitch in the first place. I would very much like to hear from other spyder owners who have fitted similar such sprockets and as to whether they have experienced the same issue and a fix if they have found one..I am very happy with the performance of this gearing and ideally would wish to continue with it, but not fussed with having warning lights flashing intermittently.

I don't get the higher ratio thing but you think it helps so that's all that matters.

Alternating flashing R+N with E in the gear position. That is an undermined gear position and should have nothing to do with the different sprocket. The fault list for a RS does not have a wheel speed RPM mismatch fault. So that could be the way it it displays that fault, just not documented. A RS-S would display the wheel speed RPM mismatch as a CHECK TRANSMISSION. Others have done this and not had the problem you are having. Could it be a coincidence? Have you tried putting the original sprocket back on to see if the problem goes away?

I don't know where you got the idea that there is different gearing ratios for different markets. All Spyders with the 998 engines sold world wide have the same gear ratios.

[Chupaca]

Well at least the whole rpm's thing. If your worried about the engine don't be, it was designed to run that way. Many riders have some problems with this especially the Harley riders. We had one who could not handle it and sold the spyder. I love the high revving twin and never get to 5th gear unless over 112 kph. Most of the time I run at 6,000 rpm's and above on freeways. It purrs at 150+kph. The RS (mine is a 2012 last of the 106 hp) was not built for touring. As folks modified the GS's for touring brp found a market for that and came out with the RT.

Not sure about the warning lights and you have done good leg work trying to find it. Have you gone to bra with this issue? ? You can get a case # and who knows there may be a software update for that. If you find out let us know...

[ingramwc]

call BRP customer service and register the problem. They should have the resources to help you get the problem squared away. Good luck!

[Ojonesy]

Well at least the whole rpm's thing. If your worried about the engine don't be, it was designed to run that way. Many riders have some problems with this especially the Harley riders. We had one who could not handle it and sold the spyder. I love the high revving twin and never get to 5th gear unless over 112 kph. Most of the time I run at 6,000 rpm's and above on freeways. It purrs at 150+kph. The RS (mine is a 2012 last of the 106 hp) was not built for touring. As folks modified the GS's for touring brp found a market for that and came out with the RT.

Not sure about the warning lights and you have done good leg work trying to find it. Have you gone to bra with this issue? ? You can get a case # and who knows there may be a software update for that. If you find out let us know...

Hi, I have just sent an enquiry of to BRP, so I will let you know what they come back with. Other riders have mentioned that they have had no issue, so it will be interesting to see what BRP say.

[Ojonesy]

call BRP customer service and register the problem. They should have the resources to help you get the problem squared away. Good luck!

I have just done that, cheers........

[Ojonesy]

I don't get the higher ratio thing but you think it helps so that's all that matters.

Alternating flashing R+N with E in the gear position. That is an undermined gear position and should have nothing to do with the different sprocket. The fault list for a RS does not have a wheel speed RPM mismatch fault. So that could be the way it it displays that fault, just not documented. A RS-S would display the wheel speed RPM mismatch as a CHECK TRANSMISSION. Others have done this and not had the problem you are having. Could it be a coincidence? Have you tried putting the original sprocket back on to see if the problem goes away?

I don't know where you got the idea that there is different gearing ratios for different markets. All Spyders with the 998 engines sold world wide have the same gear ratios.

I have the feeling that you may be right with regard to the fault being documented in this manner, but other spyder riders have also said that they have not experienced any issues with the 30th sprocket modification. I have sent an enquiry to BRP, so we will see what happens there. I do feel really comfortable with the way the spyder runs with the 30th sprocket and would like to resolve this minor hiccup, but at the end of the day, I am not comfortable with having warning lights flashing intermittently, so unless some info comes to light shortly, I will revert back to the standard sprocket.
I was talking to my spyder mechanic and he was under the impression that the new 3 cylinder spyders may have had different final drive ratios depending on where they were sold around the world, but who knows?
Anyway, thanks for your comments, I will keep you posted on any developments.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have the feeling that you may be right with regard to the fault being documented in this manner, but other spyder riders have also said that they have not experienced any issues with the 30th sprocket modification. I have sent an enquiry to BRP, so we will see what happens there. I do feel really comfortable with the way the spyder runs with the 30th sprocket and would like to resolve this minor hiccup, but at the end of the day, I am not comfortable with having warning lights flashing intermittently, so unless some info comes to light shortly, I will revert back to the standard sprocket.
I was talking to my spyder mechanic and he was under the impression that the new 3 cylinder spyders may have had different final drive ratios depending on where they were sold around the world, but who knows?
Anyway, thanks for your comments, I will keep you posted on any developments.

......... I hope you haven't opened a can of worms ( or worse ) for your-self, by telling BRP you have a 30 tooth sprocket and are having a PROBLEM...............People are so nervous about their warranty, they take off their non-BRP trailer hitches before bringing in the Spyder to their Dealer for service....................good luck......Mike

[billybovine]

I have the feeling that you may be right with regard to the fault being documented in this manner, but other spyder riders have also said that they have not experienced any issues with the 30th sprocket modification. I have sent an enquiry to BRP, so we will see what happens there. I do feel really comfortable with the way the spyder runs with the 30th sprocket and would like to resolve this minor hiccup, but at the end of the day, I am not comfortable with having warning lights flashing intermittently, so unless some info comes to light shortly, I will revert back to the standard sprocket.
I was talking to my spyder mechanic and he was under the impression that the new 3 cylinder spyders may have had different final drive ratios depending on where they were sold around the world, but who knows?
Anyway, thanks for your comments, I will keep you posted on any developments.

Yes the final drive ratio for the F3 which has the 1330 triple engine is different in NA versus the rest of the world. But as I said there is no difference anywhere for the 998 engine. I wanted to put the larger rear sprocket from the F3 on my ST to increase the revs so that I would not be driving around in 4 gear all the time and have more takeoff power. BRP said it would cause a transmission fault code and the gear to rear wheel ratio is hardcoded and not changed in BUDS. I seem to remember someone on this board has tried it and it is true. So back to your case. Many have done what you have done without problems. Why is yours different?

[Freddy]

Ojonesy, does the gear display show N or R, or just E when it happens? Or just the reverse lamps flash ? Does it go into limp mode? Odd that no fault code it stored since it shows E, which should trigger a code I think. But they replaced the gear position sensor

I had that the problem where the display showed N, R and E and went into limp mode, plus I have a 30T steel sprocket as the aluminium one was sh1t. Done 75,000km. The cause of my problem was the locally fitted wiring for reverse lights fitted here in Oz to comply with local rules. Perhaps NZ has a similar mod, but then it should go into limp mode if it's confusing the sensor but then mine is an '09GS



http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...741#post461741

[Ojonesy]

Ojonesy, does the gear display show N or R, or just E when it happens? Or just the reverse lamps flash ? Does it go into limp mode? Odd that no fault code it stored since it shows E, which should trigger a code I think. But they replaced the gear position sensor

I had that the problem where the display showed N, R and E and went into limp mode, plus I have a 30T steel sprocket as the aluminium one was sh1t. Done 75,000km. The cause of my problem was the locally fitted wiring for reverse lights fitted here in Oz to comply with local rules. Perhaps NZ has a similar mod, but then it should go into limp mode if it's confusing the sensor but then mine is an '09GS


http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...741#post461741

Hello Freddy,
both N and R indication lamps flash together and intermittently, and the gear position indicator displays Eg instead of 4 or 5g. It only happens when on the highway, no issue as yet when travelling around urban town areas. I suspect it is a computer glitch as a difference between motor rpm and actual speed has exceeded a setpoint/parameter in the computer caused by the 30th sprocket, this offset would probably increase with the higher speeds involved on the highway. My RS is a 2013 model, whether BRP have made some software changes to the computer as opposed to the earlier models whereby this anomaly does not appear to affect them, that is the question. Or do I have some other quirk going on? My RS does not appear to go into limp mode as it maintains its cruising speed, and as you say, it does not come up with any fault codes, and the gear position sensor has been changed. I have sent an enquiry off to BRP, so it will be interesting to hear what they come up with. Sometimes I think that they makes things too complicated for the application. (This not being only confined to BRP )
With regard to the reversing light wiring, my light is the factory fitted and prior to the new sprocket being fitted, there was no issue. Interesting that wiring to a reverse light caused the issue you had, I did unplug the connector to that light, I will make sure that it is plugged back together correctly, but I am reasonably sure that the plugs can only go together the one way.
Anyway, we will see what happens and I will keep any updates posted.
Cheers Ojonesy

[Freddy]

Good luck with it. Mine played up only after water got into the reverse light controller fitted here.

I suspect hat BRP will tell you to return it to stock. Regards