Really frustrated. Louise 2013 Dead..AGAIN

[jcthorne]

Timing is awful and the dealer situation is miserable.

I need to vent a bit and then ask for some advise.

Louse 2013 RT has run like a top since we got it. Yes it was hot but never had a single problem. Until the recall was done in July. Ran cooler and we thought things were great but....In early August it died while on a ride. Had to have it towed to Mancuso north, over 100 miles. They piddled with it for over 3 weeks before they and CANAM decided it was the throttle that was the problem. On the right grip. They replaced it, via slow boat parts deliver and we finally picked up the bike day before labor day. Here we are a week later and 140 miles and its dead again. Same codes, same symptoms. Had it towed to my house because Mancuso is closed and BRP will not tow to a dealer that is closed. I'll deal with BRP/Mancuso paying for the second tow from my house on Tues when they open.

Codes are: P0122, P2229 and P2801. Non of which come up in Spydercodes by the way so I have no idea what they are.

Bike will attempt to start but stumble badly, and stall in a few seconds. Exhaust is strong with unburned fuel. Throttle has no effect while it is running.

Timing is awful as we have a vacation planned for riding the Spyder with a group of friends in Colorado departing Thursday. We are stuck, no dealerships even open today or Monday so nothing we can do until Tues. The likelihood they could diagnose, get parts and fix by end of day Wed is pretty slim and then how do we have any confidence its fixed THIS time when we are heading off into some pretty out of the way places.

Louise and I have been discussing the idea of trading the bike in for a new one and taking a HUGE financial hit just because BRP cannot make this one run. Trouble is, the new bike would need triaxis bars, comfort seat and a few other items either new or moved over from the old bike before the trip. All of that is serious number of hours in labor to get done by Wed evening to deliver the new bike in time to make the trip.

Not at all sure what to do here. Perhaps BRP could step in to help make things right but that only seems to happen for 'special' folks around here. I thought we had found a better service department, well they are better but Louise still has a bike she cannot ride.

I seriously wish we had never had the recall done. While hot, the bike ran flawless. Now its an untrustworthy machine they cannot fix and we need to get rid of. Thanks BRP.

I swear if there was ANY other brand out there to consider, we would be. HD and Honda conversions are off the table. Test rode and not even in the same league. I cannot ask our ride friends to slow down that far.

If you read this, thanks. I do wish to hear others opinions. I just don't know how to make this right, still make the trip with the group etc.

[RBS66]

Wow sorry to hear this. I don't know what I would do in your situation. Wish I could be of more help. I hope whatever happens in the situation is to your benefit..

[billybovine]

P0122 Throttle Accelerator Sensor
P2229 Ambient Air pressure Sensor
P2801 Gear Position Sensor

3 different sensors, for three unrelated functions, in three different locations. That tells me there is nothing wrong with the sensors. That points to damaged wiring, loose connector or a bad ground. I would look at the wiring diagram and see what is common with them. Then inspect at the common points.

[loisk]

Hate to say it but it seems to me that they stuffed up the recall - where they do the total change of the evap canister / fuel etc system. Might I suggest that a Different Technician has a look at this? Mind you, it's always difficult to get the same place as did the work admit to anything being wrong with their work ... this I guess is common across industries & countries. Any chance of another dealer/technician looking at it?? What a bummer. There's no such thing as "coincidence" in this saga, I reckon.

[billybovine]

Just took a look at the wiring diagram and the only common connector is to the ECM. If I was to take a WAG. The connector has leaked and water got in.

[jcthorne]

Just took a look at the wiring diagram and the only common connector is to the ECM. If I was to take a WAG. The connector has leaked and water got in.

That was one of the things BRP had them check when it was in last time before they agreed to replace the throttle accelerator sensor and much of the right hand grip cluster.

I am really thinking there is a damaged wiring harness in the engine bay that got damaged or chaffed or melted since the recall.

There is no way this is getting fixed right in the next few days. If the bike does not make the trip, its never coming home from the dealer. We have lost confidence in it. Too many half wit mechanics have had their paws on it and its mucked up. This is the ONLY dealer in the Houston area that has any sort of reasonable service shop for Spyders, the others are all terrible and all owned by the same company. Mancuso.

Unless its something simple that they can figure out tues morning after they come get the bike, its not likely she will ride it again.

BRP and its dealers ruined this bike and I am going to be stuck paying to replace it. And the BEST warranty which we already know they will not move to the new bike so thats lost too. There is also a number of farkles that will not or are not practical to move over.

[kbwitt]

Here is what I try now if I get a code error.

sometimes if you try disconect negative post on the battery, I would not count to 10, I would give a full minute reconnect and pray the system resets.
Sorry to hear sbout your problem, venting also helps me cool down some. Its tough when the dealer does not know whats going on.
Good Luck
Kenn

[loisk]

Gotta say - the difference between a good Spyder experience and a terrible one is --- the dealer ---
Very sorry for your Louise! "death by dealer"
I could tell some stories ... but it seems that negative dealer feedback is a "no no" - so how on earth is BRP to address this ???

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just took a look at the wiring diagram and the only common connector is to the ECM. If I was to take a WAG. The connector has leaked and water got in.

Maybe, but I have some doubts the three are really related, mostly because the TAS, which is the right grip throttle unit, goes into connector ECMB. The others go into ECMA. ECMB has the O2 sensors, the pre-start relay, the starter button, and brake light wires in it. But I'm inclined to think there is a harness problem somewhere. Otherwise I'd suspect the ECM itself, but those seem to be the one part of the bike that has been virtually 100% reliable. If the program change they made for the recall went bad I'd think the problems would have shown up right away.

[trikermutha]

man I be one hot tamale.. Have you tried BRP support and vent to them yet ?? Sounds like it was running fine up until the update recently..Could it be the last thing they touched??

Maybe the ECM got corrupted with the update..The programming cable/port was plugged back in correctly??

Just throwing out things..

good Luck..

[pitzerwm]

That was one of the things BRP had them check when it was in last time before they agreed to replace the throttle accelerator sensor and much of the right hand grip cluster.

I am really thinking there is a damaged wiring harness in the engine bay that got damaged or chaffed or melted since the recall.

There is no way this is getting fixed right in the next few days. If the bike does not make the trip, its never coming home from the dealer. We have lost confidence in it. Too many half wit mechanics have had their paws on it and its mucked up. This is the ONLY dealer in the Houston area that has any sort of reasonable service shop for Spyders, the others are all terrible and all owned by the same company. Mancuso.

Unless its something simple that they can figure out tues morning after they come get the bike, its not likely she will ride it again.

BRP and its dealers ruined this bike and I am going to be stuck paying to replace it. And the BEST warranty which we already know they will not move to the new bike so thats lost too. There is also a number of farkles that will not or are not practical to move over.

I wouldn't spend a dime with that dealer period. I'd also see a lawyer, seems BRP and some dealers need to get drug into court to face the music. There would never have been a recall if the government hadn't of forced them to.

[oldguyinTX]

I wouldn't spend a dime with that dealer period. I'd also see a lawyer, seems BRP and some dealers need to get drug into court to face the music. There would never have been a recall if the government hadn't of forced them to.

Don't start with the lawyer stuff. Serves no useful purpose. Pretty much guaranteed to get this thread pulled. You can always PM the OP and state your opinion.

[KennW]

Interesting re the conflicting results for indicated error After checking Spyder Codes (believe I have the lastest version) I found the following results.

P0122 - (ECM) Engine Control Module
P2229 - (BA) Backup Actuator
P2801 - (B.U.D.S) BRP Universal Diognostic Software

I believe a previous post about the possible coruption of B.U.D.S upload after the heat issue rectification could be a good call. I was watching while my 2013 RT was being modified and the technician didn't ensure the B.U.D.S was pluged into a mains power supply as intidcated in the modification documention and anyway long story to short, B.U.D.S ran out of power. The mechanic just attempted to continue update from where he "thought" he was up to until I drew his attention to the revelevant documention that the whole process had to be started afresh.

As I have used Spyder Codes quite often(thankfully mostly on friends Spyders) I would be very interested to hear about the difference in results I found for the indicated codes and billyvouine's results as this is the first time I've had cause to doubt the accuracy of SpyderCodes.

Stay Safe
Kenn

[ARtraveler]

Sorry to hear about your issues with your 2013. I also note that the dealer name comes up quite frequently as being one that is not great when it comes to customer service and mechanics.

I would recommend getting in touch with BRPcare and have them start a case. At this point, the dealer has you in a bad position.

Other than taking your Spyder to a totally different area or dealer, I recommend letting out the hangman's rope and give them as much as they need to either fix it or ruin it further. Then...go on from there.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Interesting re the conflicting results for indicated error After checking Spyder Codes (believe I have the lastest version) I found the following results.

P0122 - (ECM) Engine Control Module
P2229 - (BA) Backup Actuator
P2801 - (B.U.D.S) BRP Universal Diognostic Software

I believe a previous post about the possible coruption of B.U.D.S upload after the heat issue rectification could be a good call. I was watching while my 2013 RT was being modified and the technician didn't ensure the B.U.D.S was pluged into a mains power supply as intidcated in the modification documention and anyway long story to short, B.U.D.S ran out of power. The mechanic just attempted to continue update from where he "thought" he was up to until I drew his attention to the revelevant documention that the whole process had to be started afresh.

As I have used Spyder Codes quite often(thankfully mostly on friends Spyders) I would be very interested to hear about the difference in results I found for the indicated codes and billyvouine's results as this is the first time I've had cause to doubt the accuracy of SpyderCodes.

Stay Safe
Kenn

No conflict, really. You need to read the entire entry for the codes. The ECM is the reporting unit. P0122 does not mean the ECM is faulty. But the Backup Actuator is interesting. The BA is not connected to the ECM, but the relay that actuates it is and is connected via connector ECMB.

JC, several of the comments in Roger's Spyder Codes app related to these three codes make mention of wiring shorts and breaks. I think you may on to something with regard to the harness having a problem. The fact that problems did not show up right away is consistent with wires getting pinched or having insulation burned off. If this is in fact what happened then the problem is likely in the cable from the throttle grip to a connector on the right side at the top of the engine. If the TAS cable is what is damaged then when they replaced the RH grip they routed the new cable the same as the old and placed it where it would be damaged like the original. If the TAS cable is not the problem then it must be in the frame harness. If in the frame harness then changing out the RH grip switch wouldn't have solved the problem.

There are trouble shooting steps in the service manual that should help determine if the cable is in fact the problem.

But first, push the dealer to redo the ECM update. He should be able to do that in just a couple of hours or so and that should determine if the ECM is or is not the source of the problem.

[jcthorne]

Thanks for the ideas. I will indeed suggest the ECM reflash.

It should be easy to unplug the new TAS and test it per the diagnostic procedures to determine if it, or the rest of the harness is the issue. If it is again the TAS, replacing it a third time is useless as something else is going on.

I am NOT going the lawyer route. Don't have the time to waste on that. The bike will either be fixed this week or a new bike. I really have no choice of where to purchase the new bike in the time frame. They will have the dead 2013 and there are no non Mancuso dealers in the area. I will attempt to have them match internet advertised pricing and a fair nada value for her bike. I think that can be reached. Its the triaxis bars and other parts that need to be moved before we take delivery and the time constraints. There are no loaner bikes or rentals to be had.

On a brighter note, I can say BRP roadside assistance was professional and quick, the service they sent did a great and cheerful job of getting her bike home. Mancuso will come get the bike tomorrow in their truck.

I will keep you guys posted on where this goes.

[reissooz]

Hope they come up with a quick and correct resolution to the problem, one way or the other! Very frustrating to have a major problem at any time, but especially days before a long trip!

[jwood4242]

Thanks for the ideas. I will indeed suggest the ECM reflash.

It should be easy to unplug the new TAS and test it per the diagnostic procedures to determine if it, or the rest of the harness is the issue. If it is again the TAS, replacing it a third time is useless as something else is going on.

I am NOT going the lawyer route. Don't have the time to waste on that. The bike will either be fixed this week or a new bike. I really have no choice of where to purchase the new bike in the time frame. They will have the dead 2013 and there are no non Mancuso dealers in the area. I will attempt to have them match internet advertised pricing and a fair nada value for her bike. I think that can be reached. Its the triaxis bars and other parts that need to be moved before we take delivery and the time constraints. There are no loaner bikes or rentals to be had.

On a brighter note, I can say BRP roadside assistance was professional and quick, the service they sent did a great and cheerful job of getting her bike home. Mancuso will come get the bike tomorrow in their truck.

I will keep you guys posted on where this goes.

Good luck!

[SGS RYD]

Just want to say Thanks to all who have chimed in with advice and well wishes. We are beyond frustrated, especially since I have my RT just the way I want it; I really do love that bike, I'm just shy of 10K miles. This is the only bike that seems to work for me after 5 back fusions. My Harley was never enjoyable after the 3rd fusion.

Send Good Karma our way tomorrow

Louise

[billybovine]

Maybe, but I have some doubts the three are really related, mostly because the TAS, which is the right grip throttle unit, goes into connector ECMB. The others go into ECMA. ECMB has the O2 sensors, the pre-start relay, the starter button, and brake light wires in it. But I'm inclined to think there is a harness problem somewhere. Otherwise I'd suspect the ECM itself, but those seem to be the one part of the bike that has been virtually 100% reliable. If the program change they made for the recall went bad I'd think the problems would have shown up right away.

Good point I did not pick up on the 2 different connectors. So that does point to harness problem.

[trikermutha]

Just want to say Thanks to all who have chimed in with advice and well wishes. We are beyond frustrated, especially since I have my RT just the way I want it; I really do love that bike, I'm just shy of 10K miles. This is the only bike that seems to work for me after 5 back fusions. My Harley was never enjoyable after the 3rd fusion.

Send Good Karma our way tomorrow

Louise

I agree with you the Harley would beat you up after a nice right..The spyder is really smooth..

[billybovine]

Interesting re the conflicting results for indicated error After checking Spyder Codes (believe I have the lastest version) I found the following results.

P0122 - (ECM) Engine Control Module
P2229 - (BA) Backup Actuator
P2801 - (B.U.D.S) BRP Universal Diognostic Software

I believe a previous post about the possible coruption of B.U.D.S upload after the heat issue rectification could be a good call. I was watching while my 2013 RT was being modified and the technician didn't ensure the B.U.D.S was pluged into a mains power supply as intidcated in the modification documention and anyway long story to short, B.U.D.S ran out of power. The mechanic just attempted to continue update from where he "thought" he was up to until I drew his attention to the revelevant documention that the whole process had to be started afresh.

As I have used Spyder Codes quite often(thankfully mostly on friends Spyders) I would be very interested to hear about the difference in results I found for the indicated codes and billyvouine's results as this is the first time I've had cause to doubt the accuracy of SpyderCodes.

Stay Safe
Kenn

It looks like you got your info from one of Rogers phone apps. What you have listed for each code is a definition of acronyms found in the problem description. The actual fault description you need to read farther down.

[Magdave]

Hmm found different code descriptions my self
P0122 ECM First TAS shorted to GND

P2229 ECM Ambient pressure sensor shorted to V+

P2801 ECM Gear position sensor invalid range

http://files.meetup.com/1689470/Spyder%20Codes.pdf

It looks like a wiring short to me These codes do reference the throttle (TAS) maybe a bad throttle or shorted one?

[BRPcare]

JCThorne,

Please send your VIN to brp.care@brp.com so that we can try and help you get this sorted out once and for all before your trip.

Thanks,

Steve

[Highwayman2013]

Could be as easy as a wiring connector not completely plugged in. Well we can hope.