DESS Key code again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spyderCodes]

Hardly an inconvenience. The word fear was not brought to the discussion by me, I simply used the word lucky. Fearful of failure seems kind of harsh. It's just a machine, to be fearful it won't start seems silly.

I feel lucky it starts knowing the issues others have had, to keep my luck moving in a good direction it is easier to carry a spare.

As I have already apologized and agreed we should all live in fear what else would you like me to say?

[spyderCodes]

Look PMK I like you.
In fact some of your posts have shown me that you really know how things work and I've learned a lot.

And I do recognize that there is a problem with DESS module.

Where we don't agree is in the scope.
And while it might be better to err on the side of caution I think the discussion of the DESS has gone completely off the rails.
You obviously don't agree.
There is no real compromise here.
I guess there isn't anything that I can add but thanks for the dialog.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Reality check says a fool would sell over a simple part that is easy to change. Retail is $132. Probably order a spare before our next longer ride, just based on the economics of part cost vs ruined trip.

Why not just buy a new module and install it while the changeout can be done conveniently? Why wait for a failure on the road? Lot less expensive than some LED farkles with limited utility, and will impart a lot more peace of mind!

[irvin48]

anyone have pics or a video of replacing the module and where it is
actually at. no programming involved w/just the module ?--irv

[spyderCodes]

Roger, let it go. I hold no grudge here and respect you and all you have done for the Spyder Kingdom.

You are 110% correct, the DESS discussion is off the rails, and sadly much of this falls onto BRP / Can Am. When the dealers themselves have mentioned that Can Am should have a voluntary recall to get the DESS modules replaced, that seems to be an indicator also.

I did enjoy a late night chuckle with the posts, again, not fearful, just currently lucky in my opinion but never lucky enough to win Powerball.

It's all good.

OK, suggesting You are afraid was an unwarranted and untrue bit of hyperbole.
Apology.

However, there are a lot of people that are Genuinely Afraid of the Error and I believe you may not be aware of the impact of your words.
I am most certainly no trying to provoke an issue, but it was not until recently that I discovered a very large number of SpyderLovers who actually do fear the dreaded Error Code Demon.

So , as I have said, I think your fear of this is manageable, the fear that comments made here is not so easily dismissed.

[pitzerwm]

.I would looooooooooooove to be able to get some info from some TECH at BRP that moving the MODULE would be OK...... ......Mike

Common sense would suggest that moving the module doesn't cause any issue, even if you needed to extend the wires. It's the ant in the ignition switch that reads the key. Thinking that you will get any info from BRP or a tech is a real stretch. BRP hasn't even helped their dealers other than to have them replace parts.

SpyderCodes, I would agree that not going anywhere because you fear getting stranded is not a way to live. I hardly doubt that PMKs comments are fear mongering. BUT IMO ignoring that this might happen to you, if you fit into the group of bikes that have had the problem, isn't wise either, Knowledge in King. Waiting/Expecting BRP to address this issue, based on their track record, is a joke. They don't even acknowledge that there is a problem, just having the dealer exchange parts hoping that you will die before it happens again. Lie and Deny is their mantra. I have not heard of one issue that they have stepped up to immediately and created a fix.

[ndspyderlover]

Common sense would suggest that moving the module doesn't cause any issue, even if you needed to extend the wires. It's the ant in the ignition switch that reads the key. Thinking that you will get any info from BRP or a tech is a real stretch. BRP hasn't even helped their dealers other than to have them replace parts....

SpyderCodes, I would agree that not going anywhere because you fear getting stranded is not a way to live. I hardly doubt that PMKs comments are fear mongering. BUT IMO ignoring that this might happen to you, if you fit into the group of bikes that have had the problem, isn't wise either, Knowledge in King. Waiting/Expecting BRP to address this issue, based on their track record, is a joke. They don't even acknowledge that there is a problem, just having the dealer exchange parts hoping that you will die before it happens again. Lie and Deny is their mantra. I have not heard of one issue that they have stepped up to immediately and created a fix.[/QUOTE amen. I can't believe that they continue to operate the way they do. I hove sold Fords for ever 27 years. I would not have gotten away with it

[spyderCodes]

......


I have not heard of one issue that they have stepped up to immediately and created a fix.

Expecting an engineering fix from a company, any company immediately is simply not the way the world works.

[Tnpapa]

Just got off the phone with the service writer. After talking to BRP there is a DESS module on its way to replace the one on my bike. They should have done it the first time.

[Deanna777]

She asked and got my honest opinion. With the history of superseded part numbers, and the constant number of failures, there was no crying, simply how I view the situation in regards to our 2014 and her twice failed Spyder.

I got the DESS Module replaced twice (First on July 14, 2015, and again on Aug. 28th, 2015) Yea, I did ask the question. Thanks PMK. Deanna

[Deanna777]

I wasn't aware that the replaced module had failed twice.
If it has then I suppose your opinion is valid.

I am the one that started this thread.

The first DESS Module replaced on July 14th, 2015 and the second time the DESS Module was replaced on Aug. 28th, and the switch was replaced/reprogrammed the same day. Deanna

[ShortCake]

To Buy Or Not To Buy...

After reading this thread thoroughly, I am now second-guessing me wanting to purchase a 2015 RT-S SE6. The bike is a leftover and still in the box in the dealers' warehouse. BRP has either 0% financing on all 2015's or $2500 rebate on top of deep individual dealer discounts.

I do not have many friends that ride and therefore, I will be riding mostly by myself and back and forth to work. Last thing I need is to spend over $20-$25K on what is suppose to be the Cadillac of the 3-wheeled world with it ending up being a lemon. I am guessing that if I do go through with it, I will be questioning the heck out of my salesman about this (I am unsure if there is anything else I should be bringing up?).

Any/all advice is appreciated

[PaladinLV]

The majority of this problem are with the 2014 RT.
Nothing, REPEAT nothing in life is exact.
There are BMW, Mercedes, and Cadillac drives that for one reason or another have been stranded.
Everyday life is a GAMBLE.
You can sit on the sidelines and watch life pass you by or jump in.
Choice is yours.

AJ

After reading this thread thoroughly, I am now second-guessing me wanting to purchase a 2015 RT-S SE6. The bike is a leftover and still in the box in the dealers' warehouse. BRP has either 0% financing on all 2015's or $2500 rebate on top of deep individual dealer discounts.

I do not have many friends that ride and therefore, I will be riding mostly by myself and back and forth to work. Last thing I need is to spend over $20-$25K on what is suppose to be the Cadillac of the 3-wheeled world with it ending up being a lemon. I am guessing that if I do go through with it, I will be questioning the heck out of my salesman about this (I am unsure if there is anything else I should be bringing up?).

Any/all advice is appreciated

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

After reading this thread thoroughly, I am now second-guessing me wanting to purchase a 2015 RT-S SE6. The bike is a leftover and still in the box in the dealers' warehouse. BRP has either 0% financing on all 2015's or $2500 rebate on top of deep individual dealer discounts.

The greatest impediment to the enjoyment of life is the fear of failure.

There is no denying there have been, and still are, DESS problems, but in the grand scheme of things the chances of YOU being hit by it are very slim. You have to make a decision between the maybe and the sure. MAYBE you'll encounter a DESS error, or some other problem, but you have no way of knowing you WILL encounter one. But you can be very sure you WILL enjoy the riding pleasure a Spyder can give you. So, do you want to live a life ruled by maybes, or a life ruled by wills?

As for me, I choose the latter. I have a 2014 RTS I bought in December with 654 miles on it. It now has almost 6000 miles on it, with NO DESS or other failures. I haven't let any maybes keep me from enjoying it, and I had a great trip to Spyderfest in April. I plan to have a great trip to Billings, MT, then eastern Iowa, then Omaha, NE, and back to Spyders in the Rockies. That will be something on the order of 4000 to 5000 miles. I sure ain't gonna let no MAYBE about a DESS prevent me from having one hell of a good time. And if a maybe does happen I'll deal with it then.

I have no idea where and when the sage bit of advice came to be, but there is a lot of truth in the old admonition, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!"

[irvin48]

i read all the posts too. had the gps sensor problem. twice to the
dealer. its fixed now. over a thousand miles since. wife and i are both pretty happy.
get the laser align while your at it and enjoy. failure is part of success i guess.
--irv

[Marvin2488485]

After reading this thread thoroughly, I am now second-guessing me wanting to purchase a 2015 RT-S SE6. The bike is a leftover and still in the box in the dealers' warehouse. BRP has either 0% financing on all 2015's or $2500 rebate on top of deep individual dealer discounts.

I do not have many friends that ride and therefore, I will be riding mostly by myself and back and forth to work. Last thing I need is to spend over $20-$25K on what is suppose to be the Cadillac of the 3-wheeled world with it ending up being a lemon. I am guessing that if I do go through with it, I will be questioning the heck out of my salesman about this (I am unsure if there is anything else I should be bringing up?).

Any/all advice is appreciated

I have a 2015 RT L and it has 8000 miles on it, no problems at all, Happy Riding

[ndspyderlover]

Common sense would suggest that moving the module doesn't cause any issue, even if you needed to extend the wires. It's the ant in the ignition switch that reads the key. Thinking that you will get any info from BRP or a tech is a real stretch. BRP hasn't even helped their dealers other than to have them replace parts.

SpyderCodes, I would agree that not going anywhere because you fear getting stranded is not a way to live. I hardly doubt that PMKs comments are fear mongering. BUT IMO ignoring that this might happen to you, if you fit into the group of bikes that have had the problem, isn't wise either, Knowledge in King. Waiting/Expecting BRP to address this issue, based on their track record, is a joke. They don't even acknowledge that there is a problem, just having the dealer exchange parts hoping that you will die before it happens again. Lie and Deny is their mantra. I have not heard of one issue that they have stepped up to immediately and created a fix.

amen. I can't believe that they continue to operate the way they do. I have sold Fords for over 27 years. I would not have gotten away with it

I just got my can am out of the shop. they replaced my dess module with part number 710004916. hopefully I am done with this issue. it was all covered by warranty.

[Deanna777]

I just got my can am out of the shop. they replaced my dess module with part number 710004916. hopefully I am done with this issue. it was all covered by warranty.

Good luck! I hope you do not have the dess error again! Thanks for posting the part #.
Deanna

[Tnpapa]

going to pick up the sypder shortly. Will post the part number when I return.

[Tnpapa]

Hope that it is fixed now. Part #710004916

[Deanna777]

Hope that it is fixed now. Part #710004916

Good Luck! I hope you don't get the DESS error with your new part #. ( 710004916).


I have not had the DESS error since I started this thread. Deanna

[jcthorne]

Just adding a piece of information for the discussion.

1. I can confirm that DESS CAN be disabled. Once done a normal chipless key that fits the ignition lock will start the bike.
2. I can also confirm that re-enabling the DESS does NOT remove the previously learned keys from the DESS module. They still work as they did before and the chipless key does not.
3. I can confirm that in the event of a DESS fail, connecting a megatech licenced version of BUDS in engineering mode can disable DESS and the bike will then start.

My take on this is that publicly available software exists to disable the DESS system while the bike is in lock down mode. As such the DESS system is useless as a theft deterrent for technologically inclined criminal elements. The only folks DESS is having an effect on is the owners, by disabling their bikes in the worst possible locations.

I really think BRP needs to rethink the option to have their dealers disable DESS on customer request.

As I now am familiar with the workings of DESS and the programming of keys in BUDS, I have no trouble offering this service to my customers on request. As BUDS resides on my laptop that I travel with, I will likely bring the MPI-3 device with me in case anyone in my traveling party is disabled by DESS or other problem on the road away from home.

[larryd]

Just adding a piece of information for the discussion.

1. I can confirm that DESS CAN be disabled. Once done a normal chipless key that fits the ignition lock will start the bike.
2. I can also confirm that re-enabling the DESS does NOT remove the previously learned keys from the DESS module. They still work as they did before and the chipless key does not.
3. I can confirm that in the event of a DESS fail, connecting a megatech licenced version of BUDS in engineering mode can disable DESS and the bike will then start.

My take on this is that publicly available software exists to disable the DESS system while the bike is in lock down mode. As such the DESS system is useless as a theft deterrent for technologically inclined criminal elements. The only folks DESS is having an effect on is the owners, by disabling their bikes in the worst possible locations.

I really think BRP needs to rethink the option to have their dealers disable DESS on customer request.

As I now am familiar with the workings of DESS and the programming of keys in BUDS, I have no trouble offering this service to my customers on request. As BUDS resides on my laptop that I travel with, I will likely bring the MPI-3 device with me in case anyone in my traveling party is disabled by DESS or other problem on the road away from home.

I would like to have this service done to my 2014 RTS...Is there anyone close to central PA that can provide this service??? Or is there any other way to turn it off using any other technology???

THANK YOU, larryd

[jcthorne]

This may have been explained before ( I apologize ) , but what is the " MEGATECH LICENSED VERSION " and do any or some or all dealers have it..........It's wonderful to have someone add to this THREAD that actually tells us something useful ......Again Thank you........Mike

I am in it with everyone else and like the 2013 fiasco, not one to be content to watch BRP muddle around. I have to get my hands dirty and work on a solution....

The BUDS software has several levels of licence that can be purchased. Each has access to certain sets of capabilities. Most dealers have either a Spyder dealer licence or an All Dealers licence that works on all BRP products, not just spyders.

Then there is the Megatech licence that gives significantly more access for diagnostics and other functions. It costs a bit more than the dealer level access but any dealer, or any individual can purchase which ever BUDs licence they see fit to buy.

BRP factory techs have the Megatech licence. That is where I first saw it in action. Its also sometimes referred to as an engineering licence inside the software.

I have had a dealer licence for about a year and my renewal was coming due and with the DESS issue and knowing that upgrading to the Megatech licence would unlock capabilities and diagnostics around the security functions and keys, I ponied up for the upgraded licence. Learned a lot in the first day. There is also a good deal more diagnostic capabilities for engine sensors etc as well for when I need them. Was a worthwhile upgrade. That said, BUDS licences are NOT cheap.

[blacklightning]

Well, I just finished a 1348 mile trip to the NC mountains. Over that time, I probably had 50-75 starts over the past 5 days on this journey. I must say, this is the longest time that I have gone without getting a hint of the DESS error since last summer. But, since I do have the knowledge of how to fix it, I was never worried.