Dead Spyder

[Bob Denman]

"Brake failure" usually means that the fluid is just a bit low in the reservoirs... An easy peasy fix!

[spy_der_man]

I dunno spy_der_man I guess you could look at it that way, if you believe in curses; but I woulda thought you would be thankful that your 'new' (even if 2nd hand) Spyder thinks enough of you to make sure you get all the iffy bits fixed early in your life of enjoyment on the Spyder!! It obviously didn't think enough of its previous owner to force him (or her?) to fix these things & was prepared to suffer a breakdown out on the road just to inconvenience its rider - but it thinks enough of you to want them sorted so you can enjoy the miles & smiles to come, secure in the knowledge that all the important things like brakes, oil levels, & plugs etc are sorted because you've sorted them!!

This is stuff is just your Spyder looking after you! Faithful rydes - if they like you!!

I STAND CORRECTED AND HUMBLED BY YOUR WORDS. THANK YOU FOR THE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

[billybovine]

So wet plugs. It was flooded then.

Brake failure my guess since it's new to you you're riding the brake. Stop that!!!

[AMTJIM]

Before you ride off again(even if it's serviced at the dealer), on the underside of the brake fluid caps, the rubber has a vent cut, it should be rotated near the little bump on the top of the plastic part of the cap. Whe the brake fluid caps are tighted down to the resevoir, they should be aft. If the top bump or vent cut are not aft, they will allow brake fluid to seep into the cap and drizzle down the lines, drip on painted parts and ruin the paint. You will get another brake failure warning and your resevoir will need another refill, too.

[Michael211_2000]

... on the underside of the brake fluid caps, the rubber has a vent cut, it should be rotated near the little bump on the top of the plastic part of the cap.

What is this vent cut in the rubber you speak of?



This is what the underside of 1 of my brake fluid reservoir caps looks like.... there is a tiny notch in the plastic near the bottom, which is the vent I suppose. I don't see any vents cut in the rubber diaphragm though. I'm not real sure why fluid is able to leak out thru that tiny notch in the plastic really, it shouldn't lead into the reservoir just into the rubber diaphragm to allow it to be sucked down as the fluid level drops.... generally brake fluid and fresh air don't mix well, in automobiles at least!

- Michael

[AMTJIM]

My bad, I am in the habit of repeating that. There is a vent that should be cut in the center, I see it on yours. The vent was cut by some, but it became a stock item. That vent and the bump on the top pointing aft is what to watch for. Without the vent cut and the bump facing in other directions than aft, will cause the brake fluid to leak out the cap for some reason.

[Michael211_2000]

I found it... thanks! I thought it was just a little triangle imprint, didn't realize it was punched-through the rubber till I prodded at it with a small screwdriver. Don't like this design much, brake fluid really shouldn't be vented to atmosphere. I guess BRP engineers figured it would be so little venting that it wouldn't matter.... idk. Would rather have caps with an internal bellows that expands and contracts like my truck and car have though.

I've had this 2012 Spyder for over 2 1/2 years now and never realized the orientation of the brake fluid caps was important... I probably even read it in my owner's manual (which I read cover to cover when I got it), but then forgot about it later. Arghh! There really needs to be some kind of indicator on the brake fluid reservoir that says "align caps this way".

- Michael

[billybovine]

Would rather have caps with an internal bellows that expands and contracts like my truck and car have though. - Michael

If your truck and car are less than 30 years old. I am almost certain there will be a similar feature on them.

[Michael211_2000]

2000 GMC Extended Cab 1-ton Dually, 1978 Camaro Z28 (yes it's an antique officially, my very 1st car from when I was in high school!)... both have a soft rubber bellows under the cap. The bellows is vented thru the cap but there are no holes in the bellows, which floats on the surface of the brake fluid and expands or contracts as needed to prevent pressure or vacuum from forming while keeping atmosphere separated from the fluid. Never have to open or add any fluid to these systems (unless bleeding the brakes for some reason of course) and these caps do not EVER leak!

I'm going to hazard a guess that the reason some/many/most manufacturers have moved to these fully vented non-bellows caps is mostly cost (I'm sure they're dirt cheap caps to manufacture, and there may have been a patent on the bellows design idk) and partly that they figure very little moisture will get absorbed thru the vent as compared to us taking the caps off opening the reservoir to atmosphere to check fluid level, add fluid, and see if we have little V cutouts inside our caps. LOL!

The little sight-gauge on our Spyder brake fluid reservoirs is useless as the "Brake Failure" warning comes on even when the sight-gauge still shows fluid levels above Min, I already experienced this myself too! This design does in fact have issues.

Ideally one should not have to add fluid to the brake reservoir throughout the life of the brake pads and rotors unless there is an actual leak in the system. The reservoir should hold more than enough fluid to last the brake system until the pads are worn out and replaced (forcing excess fluid back into the reservoir filling it back up as the brake calipers are collapsed to fit the new thicker pads), without triggering "Brake Failure" messages on the dash cluster! If the brakes haven't failed you shouldn't get a message telling you they have this is nonsense.

Ideally the brake fluid reservoir should never leak fluid out the caps... a correctly designed and engineered system would not even allow the user to put the darned caps on in any position other than the correct position! So this, is a bad design we have on our Spyders clearly. There is no justification for this, IMHO.

That said I still love my Spyder and will just have to deal with this flaw I suppose. Doesn't mean I have to like it though!

- Michael

[AMTJIM]

I think the cap deal is tribal knowedge more than factory, the vent slit was factory though. I still get brake warnings sometimes if riding on some mountain roads with some quick elevation changes.

[DrewNJ]

Michael, you are correct. I think we had this discussion before???
The system should not lose fluid and the amount the system drops during the normal wear of the pads should not trigger a fault. The BRP setup is SO over sensitive its silly. It's a stupid balance between overfull/leaking at the caps and worrying about brake fluid rotting out my frame, dealing with a teaspoon and trying to get the level correct only to have it puke out when riding hard and heating things up, or that stupid scrolling inaccurate brake failure message.
I've had caps replaced, reservoir replaced, and sensors replaced and the dealer (nor myself)could never find a consistent balance point. I believe many have puking caps and don't even realize it. It's a common issue.
I've never owned a bike that had a fluid level sensor and I've never, ever, seen a light come on in any of my cars/trucks.
I cant even imagine having a problem while riding, losing fluid, and hoping for the idiot light to help. If there is a hole in the system your losing brakes faster than the light will save you.
For this reason I've removed the sensors from the bottom of the reservoir, zip tied them up out of the way, and lowered my reservoir level to about half. I've run like this for two seasons with absolutely no issues at all. Personally, I feel comfortable just checking the fluid level once in awhile just like I do on all my other 2 wheel machines. I have yet to touch the fluid level since..... No warning lights, no puking caps, no mess, no rotting frame.
Best of luck

[Bob Denman]

I bought a medium sized eyedropper at the pharmacy, and use it for the brake fluid chores...
Add a little... suck a little out; it's all the same!

[AMTJIM]

You removed the sensors and wiring or just the wiring? Did you substitute a resistor or it doesn't care? Seems like it would set it off obviously since it senses no fluid capacity when pulled away.

[DrewNJ]

You removed the sensors and wiring or just the wiring? Did you substitute a resistor or it doesn't care? Seems like it would set it off obviously since it senses no fluid capacity when pulled away.

They are long black rectangular pieces that slide into a bottom clip on the underside of the reservoir.
All I did was push the sensors out from the bottom of the reservoir and zip tied them out of the way. Once you get the panels off you don't even need tools.

The sensors likely pick up a magnet in the float on the inside of the reservoir. If the float gets to close it closes the switch within the sensor. Moving the sensor and unplugging it may sat a code, I have no idea, mine are plugged in, just not installed.

I had given some thought to relocating the sensors below the clips under the reservoir but never got that far as checking fluid for me is a non issue.

Not saying it is a mod for everyone, because some people need the protection of the light.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[AMTJIM]

Never really looked into it, possibly reed switches if it has a floating magnet, or a proximity sensor and floating target. I'm just use to always hearing about a substitute resistors or chips needed to bypass something without getting fault.
I had to tear the tiny circuit out of the passegener seat switch for the seat mod to hide it away connected.

[billybovine]

According to the wiring diagram there is a 4.4k ohm resistor across each sensor circuit internally hard wired. When the sensor switch is open. So as Drew found out as long as the sensor is not disconnected from the harness there will be no fault. Interesting work around.