Went to Mobile 1

[ulflyer]

I am guessing mobil 1 is not a winner on the lab test???

Pretty sure the tests Doc had done were on BRP oil, which is 5-40. The wider the spread, the more it shears.

[Roadster Renovations]

Pretty sure the tests Doc had done were on BRP oil, which is 5-40. The wider the spread, the more it shears.

Yes, sorry. I assumed everyone read the beginning of the thread where I was talking about switching from brp 5x40 blended to M1. I have now had two independant labs tell me the oil is way thinner than it should be. I know the bike is not overfueling, especially now that the mileage has gotten better with M1. Of the 3 samples I have sent in I have averaged from 9.2 to 8.9. The change mileage has varied from 4k to 5k. Although it does appear that the shear does stabilize around 8.9 - 9.2, I feel that is too low for my liking and I with the consistent lows I am not going to chance running that oil any longer than I have to see if it shears any more.
I am usually not a proponent of synthetic oils, but in the case of the M1 oil and my RT, they seem to be a great combination. I plan on testing the M1 at 5k also to see what it is doing. That probably won't happen this season.

[MikeT]

Those of us who a "stuck" with using the BRP products (new owners & initial service)
A. Blended or Full SYN
B. Change Interval, or Maximum Mileage.
Thanks everyone for all your work to make ourSpyders better
Mike

[JayBros]

Doc, my analysis of the BRP blend at 4,371 miles came out at 8.9; shows we're in the same ballpark.

IRT Mike T's question, IMO it's a matter of personal decision. We would be fools to think that BRP had not done very thorough testing of their oil to arrive at the change interval they have set for the 1330 engine. I believe they also recommend the 5W-40 blend for snowmobiles but do not know for sure. In addition to the viscosity shear that Doc and I have experienced we are enjoying the same super smooth shifting with Mobil 1. Shifting at between 3,000-3,500 RPM is virtually seamless. Not two old Marines ganging up on BRP either.

[Roadster Renovations]

One thing that bothers me about product testing is that I see very minimal done by the manufacturer in the auto industry and then it is up to the consumer to really put it through the trials in actual day to day operation. I doubt if BRP tested the 1330 triple as extensively as they should have. There just isn't enough R&D budget to do that. Since this engine and transmission combination is new as of last year, I am afraid to say that the burden of final testing will rest upon all of us. I would like to get the greatest possible mileage out of my engine and trans and an oil that shears below what the labs say are good is not the way to go IMHO.

[opiewhan]

Wow, I cannot believe the difference! Went from BRP blended to Mobile 1 4T full synthetic and I immediately noticed a difference. The engine runs quieter and you can barely feel it shift. The old oil has 5k on it and will be sent in for analysis. Let's see if the shearing had ceased like the claims....I'll report back!

Just did switch over to Mobil 1 4 stroke 10/40..Engine runs smooth and tranny is very quite..Thinking its also easier to find should you be out in BFE.. price BRP 12.99 qt. Mobil 1 $9.67 qt..

[JayBros]

One thing that bothers me about product testing is that I see very minimal done by the manufacturer in the auto industry and then it is up to the consumer to really put it through the trials in actual day to day operation. I doubt if BRP tested the 1330 triple as extensively as they should have. There just isn't enough R&D budget to do that. Since this engine and transmission combination is new as of last year, I am afraid to say that the burden of final testing will rest upon all of us. I would like to get the greatest possible mileage out of my engine and trans and an oil that shears below what the labs say are good is not the way to go IMHO.

I think comparison of the auto industry to BRP is apples and oranges. The former has millions of units and decades of data and close collaboration with the petroleum industry. In comparison, BRP is a mom and pop operation. BRP however is working with Rotax, a very reputable company, and Rotax itself would have to have done significant testing to verify the oil change interval. IMO Rotax would not sign up for letting BRP claim a change interval that they knew oils wouldn't meet in their engines. Look back in history to Porsche, another low volume company and Mobil 1. They specifically recommended for a couple of years that owners not switch to Mobil 1 until they had one full oil change cycle on dino oil because ot the ring seating issue. They ultimately installed Mobil 1 as the OEM oil. Porsche had far more to risk than Rotax.

Right now I am temporarily between a rock and hard place as our illustrious USPS may have lost my first Mobil 1 sample -- throws my whole analysis plan into the crapper.

[MikeT]

Just did switch over to Mobil 1 4 stroke 10/40.

Is this their Motorcycle Oil???????????

[JayBros]

Yes, we're talking about Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 four stroke motorcycle oil.

[MikeT]

Just did switch over to Mobil 1 4 stroke 10/40..price Mobil 1 $9.67 qt..

I was "thrown off" by the low price for the 4T. Who's selling it @that price???? The lowest I've seen it @is $10.99/qt. Maybe regional price differences.

[Roadster Renovations]

Just did switch over to Mobil 1 4 stroke 10/40..Engine runs smooth and tranny is very quite..Thinking its also easier to find should you be out in BFE.. price BRP 12.99 qt. Mobil 1 $9.67 qt..

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/a...hmentid=112789

Hope you put this in!

[Roadster Renovations]

I think comparison of the auto industry to BRP is apples and oranges. The former has millions of units and decades of data and close collaboration with the petroleum industry. In comparison, BRP is a mom and pop operation. BRP however is working with Rotax, a very reputable company, and Rotax itself would have to have done significant testing to verify the oil change interval. IMO Rotax would not sign up for letting BRP claim a change interval that they knew oils wouldn't meet in their engines. Look back in history to Porsche, another low volume company and Mobil 1. They specifically recommended for a couple of years that owners not switch to Mobil 1 until they had one full oil change cycle on dino oil because ot the ring seating issue. They ultimately installed Mobil 1 as the OEM oil. Porsche had far more to risk than Rotax.

Right now I am temporarily between a rock and hard place as our illustrious USPS may have lost my first Mobil 1 sample -- throws my whole analysis plan into the crapper.

You may be right and I hope you are. I was under the assumption BRP bought Rotax. Is that not so?

[gypsy_100]

You may be right and I hope you are. I was under the assumption BRP bought Rotax. Is that not so?

Yes. BRP owns Rotax. Highly-regarded engine manufacturer; makes aircraft engines, also. BRP bought them several years ago.

[JayBros]

Have kicked this topic around with ulflyer over a number of Sunday breakfasts and I think the bottom line is since you've parted with lots of coin to get your Spyder from which all of us want long, reliable service, it's worth a few bucks to have whatever oil you use, or want to use, analyzed and make your selection based on the analysis. As I always tell my wife, numbers have no feeling; they just are. The BRP XPS blend may be fine and meet the parameters that Rotax has established for the engine at 9,300 mile intervals. I've just been an automotive full synthetic fan, specifically Mobil 1 in both 5W-30 and 20W-50, and hope the 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil performs as well.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I was "thrown off" by the low price for the 4T. Who's selling it @that price???? The lowest I've seen it @is $10.99/qt. Maybe regional price differences.

Check Walmart.......You may have to order it on-line and have it sent to the store for pick-up......shipping is free.......Mike

[azcpl85711]

I was contemplating between Mobil 1 and Amsoil, since I run Mobil 1 in all my vehicles and past motorcycle with excellent results I stayed with it.

[ulflyer]

In a follow on to Doc's #60 post above about viscosity, for those reading this that might not know what the viscosity numbers mean that he got from his lab tests, here is a chart that you look them up on:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

The chart shows that oil viscosity tested in the 8 to 9.5 range is a low to high 20W.

I've been testing nearly every oil change on my previous '11 RT and now on the '14 RT and they both test out about the same depending on the oil used. My tests show that most good synthetic oils hold up very well from 3-4000K miles, at that point being in the 30W range.

I've decided that from now on, I'm going to set my change level at 4500 to 5000 miles with filters every other time.

I don't contest what BRP Steve says about running oil to 9300miles but I'm just not comfortable with that, knowing that the oil will be down in the low range of 20W or so. However, most all new cars are now running a 0W-20, and some are going to even thinner oil in the near future. The question is, can the 1330 motor last for thousands of miles running on thin oil? Maybe BRP knows and perhaps that was implied by BRP Steve saying it was safe to run the long miles. I don't know that and will do two changes instead of one. I do my own so the cost is not an issue for me.

Not touting any one oil as I don't know yet how Mobil 1 will test out for me, but Amsoil and Valvoline has tested very well. Valvoline is now $8.69 at Walmart in my area with Mobil1 just under $10.

Pretty hard to beat BajaRons package deals for Amsoil. I get it at a discount and can't beat his prices. I suspect he snitches it off the loading dock somewhere! LOL...kidding Ron.

BTW, I'm running Mobil 1 for the first time with nearly 5K on it now and will be testing it shortly. Willl report here what I find.
'

[Xyzzy]

The more oil analysis reports I see the more convinced I am that a "cheaper" oil (Rotella 15W40) changed more frequently makes the most sense. BRP recommends a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil but I think they say that to possibly mitigate the issue of 9,300 mile oil changes. Even a "cheap" fancy oil at $10 a quart for 5,000 miles seems suboptimal to me.

5 x $10 x 2 = $100 for two oil changes per 10,000 miles.
5 x $4 x 3 = $60 for three oil changes per 9,000 miles.

(Not counting o-rings and filters. Assuming one filter change per 9,000/10,000 miles.)

Most people will say that it is foolish to pinch pennies on a $20,000+ vehicle. I contend that my "cheap oil" strategy is not only cheaper but more protective for the engine. The catch is that I have the time (and desire) to do oil changes whereas most people want to push OCIs as far as possible for convenience. I push my Corvette to 12,000 miles but I use full synthetic oil and my Corvette doesn't use engine oil in the transmission.

I just completed a fuels and lubrication course at my local community college. It was a very interesting course. I am working towards an AAS in diesel technology. Anyways, in the course, over and over, they stressed that the number one factor for lubrication selection was the proper viscosity at the operating temperature of the machine.

YMMV

[TEHelms]

You guys are very technical and I have a great deal of appreciation for that so a couple of things.

First, I have to remember that the engines in the Spyder run at a considerably higher rpm range than does an automobile engine and that's a factor in my mind. Second, I grew up around a lumber yard where my father had any number of trucks that put in 10+ years and over a 100k before he ever traded them in. In all those years I worked for him we never had an engine failure and I'm talking about from the 50's to the 2000's. I did most of the oil changes for him and they were never on a rigid schedule. He used Gulf 30 weight in everything and I always changed the filter when I changed the oil. Again, never an engine failure. Now that could have just been luck but I doubt it. Longevity is certainly something I appreciate but I do wonder if there's been any appreciable number of engine failures due to oil breaking down? It would be interesting to know from dealers/owners/BRP if there are any reports.

I enjoy the discussions by the way so please take this as not a knock on anything, just an observation from an old guy.

[Tango]

I have been to two dealers for oil changes. Both stress BRP oil. They both had other oils in stock. The problem I see is, you can't find 5-40 oil that is motorcycle (JASO) compliant. BRP, Bel-Ray, and Shell Rotella are the only three that I know of. Using the "wrong" weight oil gives them an out if you have an engine problem. Will you have an engine problem? I'm at 99.9% no. Butt, what if? A friend of mine had a warranty problem with Victory over his oil choice. They eventually settled for a 50-50 split. Tom

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have been to two dealers for oil changes. Both stress BRP oil. They both had other oils in stock. The problem I see is, you can't find 5-40 oil that is motorcycle (JASO) compliant. BRP, Bel-Ray, and Shell Rotella are the only three that I know of. Using the "wrong" weight oil gives them an out if you have an engine problem. Will you have an engine problem? I'm at 99.9% no. Butt, what if? A friend of mine had a warranty problem with Victory over his oil choice. They eventually settled for a 50-50 split. Tom

Tango, the difference between 5w40 and 10w40 is minimal.........if you use 2-stroke oil instead of 4-stroke oil THAT is going to be a problem........As long as you are using an OIL that MEETS or EXCEEDS BRP's recommendations they can't void or deny the warranty....Mike

[Dubliner]

I wonder why they suggest a semi synthetic? Semisynthetic oils are not 50%synthetic, they are nearer 70% mineral oil and the rest are of synthetic components, surfactants, oil modifiers and anti scuffing agents, zinc and chromium etc.


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[Xyzzy]

My tank amounts (gallons) thus far: 6.212, 5.834, 5.688, 5.747, 1.305, 5.606, 5.879, 5.468, 5.804, 5.170, 4.381, 5.594, 4.601, 3.037 & 4.210.

I went around 15 miles past the last bar on the gas gauge going out today. Not by choice! I just forgot and the low fuel light is real hard to see. Anyways, my new "gallons added" record is 6.344 gallons.

[MikeT]

The more oil analysis reports I see the more convinced I am that a "cheaper" oil (Rotella 15W40) changed more frequently makes the most sense. YMMV

The more oil analysis reports I see the more confused I get. I get it that the BRP oils shear down to 20W in about 2K miles. This is where the confusion comes in. We have "boutique" oil, readily available synthetic oil, readily available dino oil, readily available diesel oil, 5W-40, 10W-40, 15W-40, and 20W-50?????? Not to mention the prices for these oils are all over the map.
It looks like there is no "right" answer to this debate. Speaking in broad generalities, what I see is that various "camps" have come about on this issue: XPS, Amsoil, Mobil1 and dino/diesel. The common factor is the JASO MA or MA2 rating(certified or exceeds). One question I have is, what is the oil change interval on the pure petroleum based oils??????

[ulflyer]

Mike, I ran Rotella T 15-50 conventional oil for 3000 miles and it tested at 11.5 (mid-30W). It would surely be good
thru 4000 and maybe more. Might be a good oil for those of
us that do two changes per filter on our 1330's, and certainly reasonably priced, under $15 a gal I think.

I believe there are some that have been running this oil, especially in the 998's, if only they would do a lab test above my 3000 miles and let us know. From my experience both engines shear at about the same rate.

I'm very much interested in the Amsoil auto gas/diesel with an MA rating that I reported earlier. Had I known about this oil I would have used it for the change I did last week with Valvoline Syn. Nothing wrong with Valvoline but I've tested it before and would like to try something new.