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Very Active Member
Turn like Snow Skiing? Newbie thoughts...
Just had my 2015 Black RT limited delivered yesterday. The two extra weeks for delivery was TERRIBLE and AWESOME at the same time. It was fantastic that it gave me the opportunity to really study these forums. Thank you for all that participate! It was terrible for me that I had to wait! I haven't ridden a motorcycle in 30 years!
Having the "Do's and Don'ts" thread implanted on my skull, I started her up and went for it. The first ten miles were very scary.... drift, lean, tracking, etc., etc., and I quickly reviewed all the posts in my brain of swaybars and shocks that I'd needed to buy.
Then, I realized how tight my hands were. I tried it again, but made an effort to relax my hands, and the turns came a lot smoother. It dawned on me that the tightened hands were much like tightened feet while snow-skiing. When you are snow-skiing and you are afraid of the terrain, or the conditions, it is natural to lean back in the boots. This gets you out of balance over the skis, and to compensate, your toes will tend to grab towards the front of the boot. It's a vicious cycle because the more you lean back, the more the skis want to get away from you.
I was a professional ski instructor for many years and have taught thousands to ski. So, I stepped on the Spyder again, and decided to go back to my training days and use that philosophy. I drove over to the "bunny slope" (a local middle school parking lot), and really worked on the turns as suggested in the manual and on videos. I am SO GLAD that I made myself do it. It was invaluable information as I was in a controlled environment where I could change positions, attempt weight shifts, play with the throttle, etc.
My next observations, may be completely inaccurate, so any input is appreciated so that I do not develop bad habits!!
1. Hands on the Spyder are like feet in the ski boots. The outside foot on a turn (the downhill ski) applies more pressure to engage the edges. I found that if I focused on my outside hand to apply pressure on the handlebar to turn, my turns became smoother. The inside hand needed to work, but let's say 80:20. Similar to skiing.
2. Body position, and weight transition, are critical through a turn. With skiing, you have to transfer your body weight over the outside ski, and FORWARD. This will keep the core over the skis and the skis take over. I found with the Spyder turn you lean into the turn and forward. The harder the turn (not just sharp but higher speed, too) the more centrifugal force to throw you out of the turn. Therefore you you don't just lean into the turn, but lean forward towards the inside wheel.
3. Legs and feet mattered. During a turn if I felt my inside leg putting pressure on the seat, it felt like I was "hanging on," and more body roll and skipping occurred. However, when I applied pressure to my outside foot, like a ski boot, it helped me get my weight forward and inside. The turns seemed to just carve, and were dynamic.
I focused completely on hands and feet with body position for 100 miles today and could really tell when I hit the sweet spots of the turns. The more I attempted to attempt a dynamic turn, the more body roll and skipping decreased. I could get it down to where I never felt a lot of sway or jumping. I think I'll get the upgrades eventually, but will try to master the stock setup first.
I have more thoughts on posture, the sweet spot of the Y, and timing of a turn, but would like anyone's input on my observations.
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Good analogy. Your #2 - like skiing, push with your outside foot, shifting your weight to the inside.
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Very Active Member
Welcome back..!!
congrats on a fine new ryde.. never snow skied but it sounds like you got it figured out and well on your way to be a pro. Enjoy it
Gene and Ilana De Laney
Mt. Helix, California
2012 RS sm5
2012 RS sm5 , 998cc V-Twin 106hp DIY brake and park brake Classic Black
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Welcome to the party!
You are "getting it" very quickly. Good for you!
#1: "Pushing the outboard bar for turns": YES, you'll get much better control and less fatigue this way. It's entirely unlike handling the same curve on two wheels.
NEW - 2015 RT Limited SE6 Intense Red Pearl - 07/21/15
Retained the old mirrors with TricLed Signals
General Altimax RT43 rear tire (at...17,000 miles) Ran for 36,500 miles
Michelin Defender.......rear tire (at...53,500 miles) Ran for 60,700 miles
Riken Raptor HR.........rear tire (at 114,200 miles)
Vredestein Quatrac 5 front tires (at 70,500 miles, first new fronts!)
Gear Brake Decelerometer Module
OLD - 2012 RT Limited SE5 Pearl White - 01/31/13 - Traded in at 32,600 miles.
BajaRon Anti-sway Bar
Kumho ECSTA AST rear tire (at 14,200 miles)
TricLed Turn Signals in Mirrors
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Very Active Member
Forgot to add…
I used to always tell my students that it was "better to look good, than to ski good!" (As adapted from Billy Crystal on SNL.)
A brand new black 2015 RT Limited definitely does that!!
Keep looking 'maahvelous'! LOL
(I want an F3 just for that reason!)
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Very Active Member
Thanks for the replies. Looking forward to learning a lot on here
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Very Active Member
Anti-sway bar
Welcome---
Just wait untill You get a bajaron bar.
BTW: I try to put a bit more pressure on my inside ski( outer edge )(maybe 70/30). I get much more controle and it's less tiring as both legs share the pressure.
It's a great analogy--pressing with the outside foot---I"m trying to make it a ingrained habit ( like sking ) so I don't even have to think about ( like sking)
Kaos
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
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that is a perfect analogy as I have been skiing for 50 years it is a great way of putting the body language.
just remember to do your braking if needed before the corner and at the apex of the turn give it a little throttle out of the corner and
try to pick a line and stay smooth with out any major steering corrections through the corner now your carving some turns!!
and much like skiing look through the corner and ahead to set up for the next corner or what lies ahead.
and the nanny helps let you know when you are getting a little squirrely or if you hit some sand or gravel in that turn she helps you out.
have a blast and welcome Spyder lover.
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Very Active Member
A TIP FOR NOT OVER GRIPPING
This may sound weird and dangerous......but to relax both my hands while riding I actually just release my fingers ( not thumbs ) from the grips and only push to turn. ....Not say push with left, pull with right etc.....This prevents the " DEATH GRIP TENDENCY " of the newer rider.....try it on some gentle roads to see if it helps......Mike
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by kaos
Welcome---
Just wait untill You get a bajaron bar .
BTW: I try to put a bit more pressure on my inside ski( outer edge )(maybe 70/30). I get much more controle and it's less tiring as both legs share the pressure.
It's a great analogy--pressing with the outside foot---I"m trying to make it a ingrained habit ( like sking ) so I don't even have to think about ( like sking)
Kaos
Yes, I will probably upgrade, but I want to get the stock setup figured out first.
Skiing... 80/20 was the old-school "centerline" model. The better "shaped skis" give you a lot more latitude for weight distribution and much more efficient.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by chuck gross
that is a perfect analogy as I have been skiing for 50 years it is a great way of putting the body language.
just remember to do your braking if needed before the corner and at the apex of the turn give it a little throttle out of the corner and
try to pick a line and stay smooth with out any major steering corrections through the corner now your carving some turns!!
and much like skiing look through the corner and ahead to set up for the next corner or what lies ahead.
and the nanny helps let you know when you are getting a little squirrely or if you hit some sand or gravel in that turn she helps you out.
have a blast and welcome Spyder lover.
Thanks!
Great point! Accelerate as you're coming out of the turn. I'll try that!
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Very Active Member
Current Spyder - 2023 F3 LTD Special Mineral Blue
Red LED NANO Saddlebag Marker Lights with Full Illumination
Sequential Fender LED'S (Amber/Red) with Safety Reflector
Dual Power Plate (12 V & USB ports)
Gremlin Bell
Rear Trunk Organizer (4 holders, 2 Elastic Holders)
Lamonster "Top Cuff" with adjustable drink Holder
SpyderPops Missing Guard Belt
Console Accent Trim (Carbon Fiber Domed Black)
Ultimate F3 Floorboards
Front Fairing Service Access Door Covers (Carbon Fiber Doomed Black)
Sway Bar with Links
Rolo Laser Alignment
Half Cover
A-Arm Daytime Dual Color LED Running Lights with Blinker Module
Hi-Viz DRL and Sequential Mirrors lights
Marinco 12Volt Power Receptacle with polarized leads & slide lock
Show chrome Trunk Shock
Former Spyder - 2014 RTS SE6 Cognac SOLD
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Very Active Member
Welcome aboard.
Many good suggestions.
Hmmmmmmm ski instructor in TEXAS.
Short season LOL
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by tehrlich
I kind of discovered this after my forearms were cramped up! Just stretching the fingers got me thinking how tight I was locked on.
I've got about 8K miles on the Spyder and I still have to remind myself sometimes to relax.
Sent from my ASUS ZenPhone 2 using Tapatalk
Trb-- (Roger)
2014 Cognac STL:Ultimate Seat, Nelson Rigg Tail Pack, Nelson Rigg RS/ST Half Cover, TL fender lights, Squared Away Laser Alignment, BajaRon sway bar and links, Akropovic Sport Silencer
2022 White Pearl F3T
Gone but not forgotten: 2019 F3S Special Series Liquid Titanium
Spyder States Visited
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Very Active Member
Great analogy , I was thinking the same thing for awhile now. It's more like a combination of snow skiing and a go cart.
2017 F3 Limited
2017 F3 Limited , Lamonster Black Dymond brake pedal with brake rod at #5 Pure Magnesium Metallic
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Very Active Member
Again, I'm a newbie at this. I've just been trained to dissect every aspect of a turn. So my brain can't help it, but I realize I need input from people that are experienced.
Ive read a lot about 'anticipating the turn .' I discovered that if I focused on my hips and two 'sit bones,' that it was easier to start the turn, carve the turn, and avoid hopping. It also seemed to help me judge the correct radius of the turn. I had been struggling with that in my first 50 miles.
Just before the turn I would lean slightly onto the corresponding 'sit bone.' Then the turn would occur. So right turn, right sit bone, etc.
I also found out that my hips have to be fluid just like in skiing actually. My mindset when I first hopped on the thing was that I just throttled, braked, and turned. But I've discovered that isn't the case at all.
Your body has a region of space (front to back, left and right) that you must use to have the machine carve a turn. Can't just sit on the seat.
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Sorry for the long posts and possible obvious statements. Just trying to learn and not develop bad habits.
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Very Active Member
Forgot to mention that focusing on weighting the correct sit bone helped my hands begin the turn. As I just sit here typing this, if I put my hands up like on the handlebar, place more weight on the right sit bone, my right hand comes in and my left hand goes out. Both clockwise, or a right turn.
Placing more weight on the left sit bone automatically moves my hands counterclockwise, or a left turn.
Input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Registered Users
I haven't analyzed my "sit bones" or my anticipatory movements necessary to drive my Spyder..... however I DO drive aggressively and "carve" my turns. All I know is that if I hang on for dear life the bike twitches and rocks and wiggles in the middle of the curves.... If I let the bike move around under me.... ie: seek it's own "set" and do what it wants to do naturally.... I am confident, relaxed and smiling as I roll on the throttle at the apex and power away like a "real" motorcycle rider.
AS an aside.... when I first bought my spyder I thought the damn thing was trying to kill me every chance it got. As I rode it a few hundred more miles I learned to begin to relax and not muscle the thing around so much..... Now..... Well the smiles say it all...... I love my Spyder and wouldn't change a thing. I have gone on some rides with 2 wheelers on some rather "spirited" rides and I keep up with them on my RT.... If I had an F3 I would lead the way.
2014 RT Ltd Black Currant, Bump Skid, TricLed 3rd, 4th and 5th Brake Light with Modulator, TricLed Safety Bundle Led's and Reflectors with flasher option, TricLed Vader lights, JT's dash mount and USB outlet. Baker Wings belt tensioner and Drivers cup holder. Lamonster's FFP highway pegs and IPS, BRP Trailer hitch with Bushtec pin and 2007 Bushtec Roadster GT trailer. Volt Meter. Baja Ron Sway Bar. Doc Humphry's spring spacers
Mike
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Very Active Member
Dont try to over think your every move. I also did that at first. Just take more rydes and you will find that every time you get on your spyder, you will relax a little more, take more control, and enjoy the ryde. I still like your skiing analogy though. I find myself using that same body movements with my lower body more so than my upper body. Dont over do it though. Experience is the best teacher. Let your Spyder teach you.
2017 F3 Limited
2017 F3 Limited , Lamonster Black Dymond brake pedal with brake rod at #5 Pure Magnesium Metallic
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Very Active Member
Well, it's in my nature to over think a turn. It was how I was "raised!" It's also fun for me to analyze it.
As I've been working on this, I've noticed that I can anticipate the hop if my weight is not in the right place. Skiing isn't any different: get your weight incorrectly between the skis and you are now fighting the skis. I think this applies with the two front wheels of a Spyder, too.
Anyway, I hope this may help some newbies like me.
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