Oil Analysis

[IGETAROUND]

Sent my oil in for analysis to Schaeffer Web scope PM here is what they returned on BRP full synthetic with 4500 miles:

This is the second oil change; first was @ 580 miles.

Wear metals: Iron 103, Chromium 1, Lead 4, Copper 38, Tin 2 Aluminum 13 Nickel 1 Silver 0 Titanium 0 Vanadium 1

Multisource: Silicon 5 Boron 45 Sodium 10 Magnesium 62

Additives: Calcium (makes strong bones) 2196 Phosphorous 990 Zinc 1168 Molybdenum 17 Barium (constipates) 1

Viscosity 100ccSt 9.52

Their statement was: CAUTION

Have changed both oil and filter and put in Amsoil. Will report back after next 4500 miles are on.

Would appreciate those more knowledgeable to chime in and explain for those of us who have little to no clue as to what this all means.

[Bob Denman]

I my case; I feel like a Chimpanzee that has been handed the T.V. Guide...
What does this mean?

[gypsy_100]

Sent my oil in for analysis to Schaeffer Web scope PM here is what they returned on BRP full synthetic with 4500 miles:

Viscosity 100ccSt 9.52

Their statement was: CAUTION

Have changed both oil and filter and put in Amsoil. Will report back after next 4500 miles are on.

Your results are similar to those reported recently on another thread. You are almost down to the 20-range for viscosity. 9.52 is the bottom end of the 30-range (9.3 - 12.5). The earlier poster found his BRP oil was in the top of the 20-range at about the same mileage as you report. BRP's response was that the oil breaks down initially and then stabilizes and is good for the 9300 miles. Since the two of you both show oil essentially in the 20-range at half the specified mileage, I guess BRP is telling us the engine is really OK running on 20-weight oil. If you assume in the next 4400 miles it does not deteriorate much further. I'm not personally sure I can buy that assumption. I do believe BRP tested their engine well and know what they are doing. But personally, I would not run their synthetic blend for 9300 miles. That's just my opinion for my personal decisions. Most modern automobiles run on 0/20 synthetic so running on lighter oils is becoming the norm. For me and my 1330, I'll stick with a full synthetic 10/40 from Amsoil or one of the other name producers. Not a blend.

As a note -- the iron looks high but may be the result of the engine still being broken in. The earlier poster showed an iron content on 19 versus your 103. But his mileage was 4400 miles ending at 7359 miles on the machine. So he had about 3,000 miles on before he did the oil change that he tested. In other words, his bike was well broken in. Yours was still brand new. I had a "19" for iron content on my v-twin with Amsoil on even a longer interval but again, my engine had 20K miles on it and was well broken in. See what your next test shows on a fully broken-in engine.

Thanks for the info. The results from your Amsoil test after the same mileage will be a great comparision.

Sorry. I missed that you had an RS. All my comments above were in reference to a 1330. So you were at the end of the specified mileage interval and due for a change. Your oil had gone down to a low 30-weight and hopefully the high iron content is from break-in. See what the next round shows.

[Peter Aawen]

The major thing to bear in mind with oil analysis is that just one analysis probably won't convey a heap of info beyond what's been outlined above, at least not unless there is something drastically wrong with the oil &/or the engine.

BUT, a series of analyses over time can give you a pretty good picture of what is happening and the way things are wearing inside the engine by allowing an ongoing review of the changes in the figures reported. If you watch to see what numbers against which of the wear metals start to grow; anything that jumps up or down significantly from one analysis to the next is worth investigating further... Ask yourself what inside the engine contains or is made up of that/those metals, cos increased levels of those metals in the oil means that there is increased wear happening inside the engine to that/those components! Ideally, the level of those metals will remain static or plateau after a slow & steady move towards that plateau level over the first 10K miles or so - that usually isn't all that untoward, because any engine will tend to wear-in some as it settles/beds in from new.

However, even if you don't watch the numbers for any changes or understand what the analysis report means, the analysis mob will generally give you a heads up if any levels are getting dangerously high or if the analysis shows any changes worth worrying about. They should provide you some idea of what to look for if asked as well - & don't be afraid to ask them for an explanation of anything you don't understand that's shown on the report, cos that's effectively what you are paying for!

I get an analysis done on every third oil & filter change, but then I'm not waiting quite so long between changing the oil as BRP suggests! Still, regular oil & filter changes, an analysis every third change, and the collected series of analyses suggests that my engine is behaving & wearing pretty well & it looks like it's going to be up for lasting the long haul... at least so far!

[JayBros]

Here's a link I got courtesy of ulflyer that shows how to read the SAE engine oil viscosity from the cSt 100^oC scale. I don't believe the fact that the oil is from an RS bears on the problem because the viscosity shearing Steve from BRPcare explained is the result of the engine and wet clutch gearbox sharing the same oil. JMO.

Whoops! Here's the link
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

[DrewNJ]

I agree with the others. Not much your going to learn since this oil was installed with 500 miles on your machine. Numbers are going to be out of wack. Also, shear is going to be an issue on any shared transmission setup regardless of engine. The transmission will break the oil down faster. It is what it is.
Personally 4-5k is on the edge of what I'd feel comfortable with for an oci 998 or 1330. 9300 I wouldn't even consider on any setup.

[ulflyer]

Here's a link I got courtesy of ulflyer that shows how to read the SAE engine oil viscosity from the cSt 100^oC scale. I don't believe the fact that the oil is from an RS bears on the problem because the viscosity shearing Steve from BRPcare explained is the result of the engine and wet clutch gearbox sharing the same oil. JMO.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

[IGETAROUND]

I'm grateful for all the resident knowledge.

Now, having said that, I'm surprised and amused that the dogma of ya gotta change your oil every 3000 miles is still as entrenched as it is. With the 1950's and 60's engineering of engines and materials and the lower quality of the lubricants available this most likely made sense.

With today's technology and the level of development of the lubricants we utilize I'm not understanding why the majority of opinions expressed still insist that you can't go AT LEAST as far as the manufacturer recommends
between oil changes.

Does ANYONE think that BRP or any other manufacturer is going to suggest that you need to go less than the safety factor that is already factored into their oil change intervals??? They don't pick the number of miles between servicing on a whim of how they feel on the day the manual is printed.

[Bob Denman]

It does seem silly to think that they'd want you to run far enough to destroy the oil's usefulness, and your engine in the process...
They DO put a time parameter in there also: one year. Mine will be going in at the beginning of August...

[Chupaca]

The change in durability is more from the conventional 3,000 miles going up to 5,000 miles. BRP will cover up to 9,300 miles on the new 1330 engines and 4,600 miles on the 998 engine. We need a test from the same machine at incrementes of 1,000 miles to see if it levels off, holds or drops. Myself I will still keep the oil fresh and up it to the 4/5,000 miles on my 998...

[Orange Spyder Man]

I plan to use Castrol full synthetic motorcycle oil.. 10W50 that has a SL rating... will change it once a year... OR if I happen to put more than 7000 miles on my 2014 Spyder with the 1330 ACE engine i'll change it then .. IMHO using the fore mentioned oil and using BRP's recommendations for changing engine oil.. I surmise I won't ever wear out the engine..

osm

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm grateful for all the resident knowledge.

Now, having said that, I'm surprised and amused that the dogma of ya gotta change your oil every 3000 miles is still as entrenched as it is. With the 1950's and 60's engineering of engines and materials and the lower quality of the lubricants available this most likely made sense.

With today's technology and the level of development of the lubricants we utilize I'm not understanding why the majority of opinions expressed still insist that you can't go AT LEAST as far as the manufacturer recommends
between oil changes.

Does ANYONE think that BRP or any other manufacturer is going to suggest that you need to go less than the safety factor that is already factored into their oil change intervals??? They don't pick the number of miles between servicing on a whim of how they feel on the day the manual is printed.

The comparison to then and now is only valid if we are comparing EQUALS.....Spyders share engine and trans oil, the 50's & 60's usage you are referring to, I believe was auto / engine only oil......I agree the Lubricants of today are far superior, But when the usage combines the engine and trans the comparison can't apply..........The Spyder needs better OIL and more frequent changes IMHO........Mike

[WEB-WVR]

Interesting thread and it will be interesting to see your analysis after using Amsoil.

At my break-in change I am going to Amsoil. I will change oil every 5,000 miles on Amsoil or every other year which ever comes first.

[ARtraveler]

RE: Oil change times/miles

RE: My 2014 RT.

Bought new April 30, 2014. Break in oil change was performed at 2997 miles on 6/18/14.

Next oil change was at 10941 miles (7943 miles later). Date 4/8/2015. My season start up check over.

Currently at about 16,500 miles. I plan on bringing it in at about 20,000 miles, which will be at a 9059 interval--close to the recommend 9300 or once a year--whichever is sooner. That is looking like about 30 days or so from now.

My next will be at about 9,000 miles later or beginning of season--whichever comes first.

The has been running perfectly and has not presented any mechanical issues.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Interesting thread and it will be interesting to see your analysis after using Amsoil.

At my break-in change I am going to Amsoil. I will change oil every 5,000 miles on Amsoil or every other year which ever comes first.

I may be mis-understanding your OIL change schedule........But I would NOT leave used dirty oil in the engine / trans between riding seasons AMSOIL or another...........................JMHO.......Mike

[WEB-WVR]

I may be mis-understanding your OIL change schedule........But I would NOT leave used dirty oil in the engine / trans between riding seasons AMSOIL or another...........................JMHO.......Mike

I am using the same theory that us show car owners have. Very few miles using a great synthetic oil....change every other year. If a lot of miles put on....then change each year of course.

I have a lot of things to drive and ride and dont ride the Spyder/motorcycles as much as I want to. So as an example....if you changed your oil say in March and only put 800 miles on it (oil is still clear)......if stored in a heated garage....no real reason to change it every year. I did this with my last 2 wheeler...no issues.

It depends on; storage, miles, many other factors. I have done this with 2 muscle cars now for 9 years with no issue. I have a friend that has 6+ collector Mopars some worth big bucks. Some cars he has may not get but 200 miles on them a year....he goes with the every other year too and has had no issues.

It all depends what each of us is comfortable with of course and I am always open to opinions.

[JayBros]

For me the whole comfort factor is upended by the viscosity that occurs in small engines in which the lubricating oil shares duty with both engine and clutch/gearbox. Cars just don't do that. In either case IMO full syn is best way to go if wallet can afford it.

[gypsy_100]

RE: Oil change times/miles

RE: My 2014 RT.

Bought new April 30, 2014. Break in oil change was performed at 2997 miles on 6/18/14.

Next oil change was at 10941 miles (7943 miles later). Date 4/8/2015. My season start up check over.

Currently at about 16,500 miles. I plan on bring it in at about 20,000 miles, which will be at a 9059 interval--close to the recommend 9300 or once a year--whichever is sooner. That is looking like about 30 days or so from now.

My next will be at about 9,000 miles later or beginning of season--whichever comes first.

The has been running perfectly and has not presented any mechanical issues.

Since your machine is well broken in and you're actually going the full distance (9,000 miles), an analysis of your oil would be great. (hint, hint) No one else seems to be planning to go that far so we don't know what really happens between, say 4 or 5K and 9K. Food for thought.

[IGETAROUND]

akspyderman

RE: Oil change times/miles

RE: My 2014 RT.

Bought new April 30, 2014. Break in oil change was

performed at 2997 miles on 6/18/14.

Next oil change was at 10941 miles (7943 miles later).

Date 4/8/2015. My season start up check over.

Iplan on bringing it in @about 20,000 miles, which wi

be at a 9059 interval--close to the recommend 9300

or once a year--whichever is sooner. That is looking

like about 30 days or so from now.

It would be very useful for ALL the 1330 owners if you would send your oil in for analysis and share the results with others. Might go a long way to instilling courage to go to the recommended mileage before changing

[ARtraveler]

akspyderman

RE: Oil change times/miles

RE: My 2014 RT.

Bought new April 30, 2014. Break in oil change was

performed at 2997 miles on 6/18/14.

Next oil change was at 10941 miles (7943 miles later).

Date 4/8/2015. My season start up check over.

Iplan on bringing it in @about 20,000 miles, which wi

be at a 9059 interval--close to the recommend 9300

or once a year--whichever is sooner. That is looking

like about 30 days or so from now.

It would be very useful for ALL the 1330 owners if you would send your oil in for analysis and share the results with others. Might go a long way to instilling courage to go to the recommended mileage before changing

A couple questions:

How?

How much?

[JayBros]

Based on Steve's explanation of the stabilizing of the viscosity shear after initial drop I am going to have my current engine load of Mobil 1 4T 10W-40 analyzed at 2,000 mile intervals without filter change to see how the viscosity looks at each point. I will be replacing the test sample each time but that should have no significant effect on the remaining oil. If it looks good, I'll keep riding it all the way to 9,300. Will have to see. Don't know how long it will take but will publish all reports.

[IGETAROUND]

A couple questions:

How?

How much?

$6.00/ test we can afford all of that!!!!

Copy the company name, go to their web site and ask them to send you prepaid kit. Cost is $6.00 / bottle Sell single, 3pack and 6packs. They seem to be VERY slow on shipping so if you want to do this get in touch with them tomorrow. They are based in Ohio so on EST.

Sorry missed the first part of your ?

[IGETAROUND]

Based on Steve's explanation of the stabilizing of the viscosity shear after initial drop I am going to have my current engine load of Mobil 1 4T 10W-40 analyzed at 2,000 mile intervals without filter change to see how the viscosity looks at each point. I will be replacing the test sample each time but that should have no significant effect on the remaining oil. If it looks good, I'll keep riding it all the way to 9,300. Will have to see. Don't know how long it will take but will publish all reports.

This would be wonderful information for all; GO FOR IT

[IGETAROUND]

The comparison to then and now is only valid if we are comparing EQUALS.....Spyders share engine and trans oil, the 50's & 60's usage you are referring to, I believe was auto / engine only oil......I agree the Lubricants of today are far superior, But when the usage combines the engine and trans the comparison can't apply..........The Spyder needs better OIL and more frequent changes IMHO........Mike

But Mike there were a couple of bikes around then also. However I do understand your point

[wiredgeorge]

It does seem silly to think that they'd want you to run far enough to destroy the oil's usefulness, and your engine in the process...
They DO put a time parameter in there also: one year. Mine will be going in at the beginning of August...

The reason for a time constraint between oil changes is that when a vehicle sits, condensation occurs in the crankcase and there is quite a bit of moisture involved. The bike being run is easier on the oil than not run at all and I think the year between changes if the bike isn't run much is the result of the condensation. Most bikes that are started once every couple weeks and left to idle a minute or two during winter storage have more harm done than good.