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  1. #26
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    Unfortunately, Lamonster changed this forum so that we have to use another photo sharing web site in order to post photos here. I used to post photos on this forum but I'm not inclined to use a photo sharing web site, so I can no longer post photos here.

    However, I have been taking photos at every step of the project.
    Not so, you can upload them from your post or load them to your photo gallery in your userCP.
    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/usercp.php

    Here's the videos that show you how to do it.
    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8044

  2. #27
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    The continuing saga:

    Yesterday I set out to find the clevis. Since I live on what people say is the largest pleasure boat harbor in the world and sail boats use many clevises, I headed out to our local West Marine store to look at their selection of same. Not so! They had a good selection of clevis pins but no clevises. A salesman explained that people drop clevis pins overboard but seldom lose a clevis so West carries replacement pins only.

    At this point I began to think that Nexus was very fortunate to find a clevis he could use, at a local hardware store. I figured I could end up wasting the day trying to find a store that catered to boat builders instead of boat users and then maybe not find one the right size. So I decided to head to my shop and machine my own clevis. However, I did buy a clevis pin and a little bag of stainless cotter pins at West before leaving the store. I would need a longer pin to replace the one on the Spyder when I added my clevis to the stack. I purchased a 5/16" x 1" pin which turned out to be just the right length.

    Back at the shop I started looking at my assortment of metal odds and ends. I didn't want to use steel because I would have to get it plated or powder coated to prevent rusting - more hassle. So, it had to be either aluminum, brass or stainless. Aluminum would wear fast, stainless would wear well but be a slow machining process, I decided brass was a good compromise between those.

    Before starting this, I went over to the hose company (Mesa Hose) and had them make me up the hydraulic hose, since it was Friday and they are not open weekends. I also purcased from them a flare fitting, like to one that came on the cylinder, but a right angle one. That would shorten my hose length requirement by letting the hose come straight up from the end of the cylinder. I had them make a 60" hose while I waited. I chose the type that has a protective plastic sleeve over the metal braid so I wouldn't have to worry about abraiding on parts of the bike.

    Back to the clevis project: I could have used round bar stock but I just happened to have a piece of 1" hexagonal brass bar stock. That works well because it can be chucked in a lathe's three jaw chuck for drilling the shaft hole and still has flat sides for aligning in a mill vise for cutting the 5/8" wide slot, and drilling the pin hole, that makes it a clevis.

    The clevis turned out great but by the time I had mounted it on the Spyder brake pedal, it was time to put everything back together so I could ride back home from my shop (~ 3 miles). Having to have the Spyder in riding shape every day definitely slows up this project.

    Today the job will be to fabricate the right angle bracket that will mount the slave cylinder to the foot rest bracket. Instead of using steel, as Nexus did, I will use aluminum but of course thicker than his bracket was, in order to make up for the reduction in strength of the metal used. I sure don't want this bracket bending under load!

    Stay tuned.............................

  3. #28
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    I fabricated the mounting bracket and now the slave cylinder is mounted on the Spyder. For the bracket I had in my metal stock a length of aluminum angle. I cut off a piece four inches long to start with so I could trim it to length after the holes were drilled. The original size of the angle was 3"x 3" x 1/4" x 4" long. 1-1/2" below what would be the top of the bracket, I used a hole saw to cut a 1-1/4" diameter hole, 1.221" (31mm) from the mounting surface. Temporarily mounting the cylinder in the hole I aligned it with the clevis and C-clamped the bracket to the foot rest bracket at this position. Then I used center locating punches (5/16" & 1/4" dia.) to center punch where the mounting holes would be drilled in the cylinder mounting bracket. In drilling the holes in the bracket, I used letter drills so I could go slightly oversize by 10 t0 15 thousandths to give me a little slop in the hole alignment. I used nylock nuts and grade-8 washers against the inside of the bracket. The only end of the bracket that I trimmed off was the bottom end. The upper mounting hole was 5/8" from the top end. I also trimmed off excess material from both sides of the bracket.

    Today I'll connect the hydraulic hose, fill the system, and begin the bleeding process. Bleeding hydraulic brakes is among my least favorite things to do. I usually end up with fluid all over the place and myself.

    Tomorrow i'll report on how it all went.

  4. #29
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    Still waiting on some pictures bro. Reiterating lamonster's post from the other day, the SpyderLovers website can host your pictures for inclusion in your posts. No need to use Photobucket or any other online hosting service.

    Quote Originally Posted by lamonster
    Not so, you can upload them from your post or load them to your photo gallery in your userCP.
    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/usercp.php

    Here's the videos that show you how to do it.
    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8044

  5. #30
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    Success! I now have a working hand brake on my Spyder. I'll attempt the photo uploading process in another posting as soon as I go through my photos and pick the most representative of the project and reduce their sizes. I had missed Lamontster's instructions on how to do the uploading.

    I want to thank NEXUS for spending the time and money to do the trial and error work to determine the sizes of the cylinders needed to do the job. If I had started from scratch, I would have started too small, as he did, and have to work up. That is, if I could have found the parts needed to do the job in the first place. It was great for me to have the part numbers and sources right there in his posts, to use. Thank you Bill (NEXUS).

    I also want to say something about tackling this project. I'm sure some people smiled when I would mention using my lathe, mill, saw, etc., and going to my own metal supply shelf for the raw materials. I always laughed when that guy on the TV woodworking program would have all the power tools it would seem only God would know about. It took me many years to accumulate this stuff. Someone with the patience and some skill could do it like I used to - using a few basic tools and a lot of time. The simple raw materials can be found with some searching.

    The main thing I want to stress, just as NEXUS did, is that you will be working with a part of your bike that can mean injury or death if you don't do it right. Think about each step you take in the project and think; "how can this fail or otherwise go wrong"? In this case I would say that overkill is always preferable to under-kill. Weight is not critical, this isn't an aircraft we are working on. If this added hand system failed to work, we still have the factory foot brake to fall back on, so the worst failure (in my opinion) would be to have this system get in the way of the brake lever returning to nuetral and forcing the Spyder to a complete stop when maybe it would be dangerous to do so. A word to the wise; save the six pack until after the job is done.

    BTW - In true fasion, I did get brake fluid all over the place. I'm pleased to discover that it doesn't attack the Spyder's plastic. In fact I now have some clean spots on my Spyder.

  6. #31
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    Default Photos

    I'll attempt to upload some photos of the hand brake project.

  7. #32
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    Default More Photos

    It worked! Here's a couple more.

  8. #33
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    One thing I forgot to mention in my running description of the project. Since I made my own clevis I elected to have the end of the slave cylinder shaft push against the bottom of the 5/16" diameter x 5/8" deep hole, instead of the nut pushing against the end as NEXUS did. I still put the nut on the threaded shaft to hold back the boot and I used medium loktight to keep it from moving. The nut never touches the end of the clevis. As did NEXUS, I left a little space between the end of the shaft and the bottom of the hole when the brake is at rest position, to make sure that the slave cylinder NEVER acts as a stop for the brake pedal.

  9. #34
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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  10. #35
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    Thanks Lamont!

    Are you still thinking of changing to a hydraulic system or have you decided to stay with your cable system?

    BTW - Thanks for getting me squared away on uploading photos.

  11. #36
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    Thanks Lamont!

    Are you still thinking of changing to a hydraulic system or have you decided to stay with your cable system?

    BTW - Thanks for getting me squared away on uploading photos.
    I'm still looking into the hydraulic system and I have gathered up some parts to do so but I don't want to have to shim controls to make it work.
    You did a great job on yours but I'm going a little bit of a different route.

    Soon as it warms up I'm going to play a little more with the cable setup and maybe between No Magic and myself working on it we can come up with something that works right the first time and is a true boltup system.

    This might help you a little more with the picture thing.
    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8563

  12. #37
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    Congrats trikester and thanks for the pictures.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    It worked! Here's a couple more.
    When you bled the system did you put a piece of tubing over the bleeder? Keeps the brake fluid from getting all over.

  14. #39
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    Yes I did. I am using a tube that goes to the bottom of a bottle of fluid, so that I don't suck any air back up the tube and into the bleed valve.

    Most of the fluid came from the master cylinder up on the handlebar. I didn't notice that every time I squeezed it, a little "old faithful" geyser would shoot up at the very beginning of the stroke. The top of the master was open so that I could easily add fluid. I was watching the tubing I had on the bleed valve and not looking up at the master cylinder, while doing the operation. Once I realized that fluid was squirting out, up there (& all over the place), I started laying the internal rubber bladder back on the opening each time, after adding fluid.

  15. #40
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    Default Was Can Am thinking this?

    While working on this project I started wondering if Can Am had something like this in mind when they were designing their first prototype?

    It is interesting to note that the casting behind the foot rest appears to be a lot stronger than necessary for something that is just for your heel to bump against. It has strengthening ribs cast into it and then there are those two unused mounting bosses. The ribs build up to their maximum height at the bosses. Something was originally meant to mount here and to take some applied forces.

    It was very convenient for NEXUS and I. Hmm...............................

  16. #41
    Registered Users Latemarch's Avatar
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    Is there some reason that the foot pedal isn't by-passed altogether?

    Just a direct hydralic connection to the Spyders brake system. It would seem to be the simplest solution.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latemarch View Post
    Is there some reason that the foot pedal isn't by-passed altogether?

    Just a direct hydraulic connection to the Spyders brake system. It would seem to be the simplest solution.
    Since the Spyder has a dual master cylinder I don't know if there exists a hand brake with dual cylinders. On two wheel motorcycles the requirement for a redundant braking system is satisfied by the hand brake for the front and the foot brake for the rear. Spyder has all three tied together so they meet the requirement for redundancy by having a dual master cylinder and dual reservoirs. Also dual hoses and lines all the way.

    Using a motorcycle hand brake (single cylinder) and tying into only one of the Spyder's master cylinder compartments (presumably the one for the front wheels) I would be concerned that the ABS action would get screwed up, with only front wheels braking or front and rear unbalanced braking. I really don't know if that would be a problem but, to me, it seems logical that it very well could be.

    I like the idea of not getting into the Spyder's hydraulic system at all. There might even be warranty problems with doing that (very likely). This certainly is an area for investigation and discussion. I look forward to other's methods to adding a hand brake as time goes on. Of course the best solution would be to have the factory add a hand brake, or make it an option, but it begins to look like that is just wishful thinking on our part.
    Last edited by trikester; 01-20-2009 at 01:45 PM.

  18. #43
    Registered Users Latemarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    Since the Spyder has a dual master cylinder I don't know if there exists a hand brake with dual cylinders. On two wheel motorcycles the requirement for a redundant braking system is satisfied by the hand brake for the front and the foot brake for the rear. Spyder has all three tied together so they meet the requirement for redundancy by having a dual master cylinder and dual reservoirs. Also dual hoses and lines all the way.

    Using a motorcycle hand brake (single cylinder) and tying into only one of the Spyder's master cylinder compartments (presumably the one for the front wheels) I would be concerned that the ABS action would get screwed up, with only front wheels braking or front and rear unbalanced braking. I really don't know if that would be a problem but, to me, it seems logical that it very well could be.
    Ok, there's a problem here.
    The typical hand brake installation is for someone that can for whatever reason not use the foot brake. So whether intended or not you have a single master cylinder system the one on the handle bar because if it fails the whole system fails.
    So why not T into both systems on the Spyder from the handle bar cylinder and leave the foot pedal alone and just realize that you have a single cylinder system and that you need to check your brake system carefully before each ride.
    Undoing the installation if you sell the Spyder is as simple as replacing the lines from the foot pedal that you T'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    I like the idea of not getting into the Spyder's hydraulic system at all. There might even be warranty problems with doing that (very likely). This certainly is an area for investigation and discussion.
    Actually tapping into the hydralics is the simplest approach and what you find with simple systems there are fewer things to fail. By complicating the system with another hydralic actuator and clevis you've actually got other parts that can fail.


    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    I look forward to other's methods to adding a hand brake as time goes on. Of course the best solution would be to have the factory add a hand brake, or make it an option, but it begins to look like that is just wishful thinking on our part.
    True enough. Though there are numerous aftermarket companies that build alternate control systems for cars for the disabled. I'm hopeful that someone will step forward with a kit solution for the Spyder
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  19. #44
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latemarch View Post
    Actually tapping into the hydralics is the simplest approach and what you find with simple systems there are fewer things to fail. By complicating the system with another hydralic actuator and clevis you've actually got other parts that can fail.
    Not as simple as it seems. First, I agree with Trikester that a dual master cylinder would be a necessity, especially with a rider who is limited to hand brake use only. Not sure if any such master cyclinder exists for the handlebar. Second, on another forum a writer told of problems experienced getting a master cylinder that would apply the correct pressure to tap into the Spyder system. Seems the computer monitors the pressure, and it was difficult to get enough oomph to avoid brake failure warnings and limp mode. Not that it can't be done, just not cut and dried.
    -Scotty

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latemarch View Post
    ......
    Actually tapping into the hydralics is the simplest approach and what you find with simple systems there are fewer things to fail. By complicating the system with another hydralic actuator and clevis you've actually got other parts that can fail.
    ......

    As I said before; if this added system fails to operate, you still have the original unaltered foot operated system to use. Even if the added system jammed the foot pedal and prevented it from returning to rest position you would still stop and with a functioning ABS, but if you didn't intend to come to a complete stop then it might be dangerous to do so, when you couldn't release the brake. Fast lane on the freeway comes to mind here.

    I might not have mentioned before that one of the main reasons I wanted a hand brake was for rolling the Spyder around on uneven surfaces. I have almost had it get away from me and I have almost run over my foot with the front wheel. In regard to this - remember, I am very used to wheeling around two other trikes in this configuration and those don't have a reverse so I do that every time I have to back those up. It is not because of inexperience that I wanted a hand brake.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-01-2022 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Fixed quote display

  21. #46
    Registered Users Latemarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikester View Post
    I might not have mentioned before that one of the main reasons I wanted a hand brake was for rolling the Spyder around on uneven surfaces. I have almost had it get away from me and I have almost run over my foot with the front wheel. In regard to this - remember, I am very used to wheeling around two other trikes in this configuration and those don't have a reverse so I do that every time I have to back those up. It is not because of inexperience that I wanted a hand brake.
    I was not addressing your situation but rather the disabled rider that can't use the foot pedal.

    Frankly, for your application I'd be thinking of a cable system that links the parking brake cable and avoiding the Spyders primary braking system entirely.
    Last edited by Latemarch; 01-21-2009 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Clarity
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  22. #47
    Registered Users Latemarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancysToy View Post
    Second, on another forum a writer told of problems experienced getting a master cylinder that would apply the correct pressure to tap into the Spyder system. Seems the computer monitors the pressure, and it was difficult to get enough oomph to avoid brake failure warnings and limp mode. Not that it can't be done, just not cut and dried.
    -Scotty
    I haven't seen that thread, can you supply a link?
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  23. #48
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latemarch View Post
    I haven't seen that thread, can you supply a link?
    Sorry, I don't go to that forum anymore. It was a long while back, maybe Spring of 2008. I'd search old threads for "hand brake" on SpyderTalk.
    -Scotty

  24. #49
    Very Active Member retread's Avatar
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    There is a member here, doesn't have many posts, that tied his handbrake control directly to the system on his Spyder. Floto612 is his user name, I've read his posts, and he's willing to share.

    john

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by retread View Post
    There is a member here, doesn't have many posts, that tied his handbrake control directly to the system on his Spyder. Floto612 is his user name, I've read his posts, and he's willing to share.

    john
    I believe he used a brembro 20mm master on the handlebar and tied that to a manifold borrowed from a goldwing, which he then ran two lines from to the existing ports on the ABS/brake box.

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