Gasoline Tank Failure

[billybovine]

Now that I have had a chance to look at the pictures for a bit, I am a convert. The picture of the crack puzzled me trying to figure exactly where on the tank that is. When I figured that out I was stunned to realize, that part of the tank was sucked up by at by 1 to 2 inches. Then the picture of the fuel pump/pickup assembly shows it was pushed out the top by the collapsing bottom.

[jcthorne]

And yes, there is sufficient vacuum AT IDLE to do this if the tank was exposed directly with a plugged vent. Actually manifold vacuum is highest at idle except during engine braking.

For the OP, when was the last time you put fuel in and did you notice any anomalies with the qty of fuel it took to fill? If this tank is collapsed from the bottom as it appears, its capacity is GREATLY reduced. I'd estimate its internal volume reduced by half. If not, this happened since your last fill up.

[WA5VHU]

On hot days my 2011 RT twice pulled a vacuum and I couldn't get the gas cap off. The first time was a long highway ride in 85° sunny weather and it was like riding a furnace. It took 45 minutes before the gas cap would unscrew. I wonder if I hadn't needed to stop for gas if my tank might have collapsed?

[satownsendsr]

And yes, there is sufficient vacuum AT IDLE to do this if the tank was exposed directly with a plugged vent. Actually manifold vacuum is highest at idle except during engine braking.

For the OP, when was the last time you put fuel in and did you notice any anomalies with the qty of fuel it took to fill? If this tank is collapsed from the bottom as it appears, its capacity is GREATLY reduced. I'd estimate its internal volume reduced by half. If not, this happened since your last fill up.

I filled it up when I picked it up from having the XM Radio put on. It did overflow when the nozzle didn't shut off when the fuel reached it. Some gasoline ran down the side of the bike before I shut it off. I wiped the bike off and then rode it home. It is about 30 miles give or take from the dealer to my house. The bike sat idle Saturday except for me washing it. Sunday we went riding with a group we ride with and we went up into the mountains of NC. I stopped to fill it up again but didn't notice any difference in the amount it took to fill it. We then rode maybe 2 or 3 miles before stopping for lunch where I parked on a slight incline with the front elevated some. This is when the leak was first noticed but we rode a little further thinking that maybe some fuel got trapped in an area when it over filled. After the level dropped just below full on the gauge I checked it again and saw no leak. It surfaced again with a fury while at the rally in Myrtle Beach. I was told by the local dealer it was the fuel pump gasket leaking and as long as I didn't fill it up that I should be able to ride with no problem. We left the beach early for several reasons and I took the bike to my Dealer for repairs. The rest is history.

[satownsendsr]

I have noticed that when the tank shows empty it only takes about 4 gallons to fill it up. That says there is roughly 2 gallons left when the fuel gauge reads empty. I don't know if this is what it should be or my float or gage is off. It has been this way since I purchased it.

[Doc - Riverside]

On hot days my 2011 RT twice pulled a vacuum and I couldn't get the gas cap off. The first time was a long highway ride in 85° sunny weather and it was like riding a furnace. It took 45 minutes before the gas cap would unscrew. I wonder if I hadn't needed to stop for gas if my tank might have collapsed?

Are you sure it is a vacuum that was preventing you from removing the cap? It it is a vacuum you have a Major problem with the tank vent system. I am more inclined to say the reason the cap wouldn't come off is the expansion of the tank due to the heat as you described. After it cooled for 45 minutes you could unscrew the cap. Next time this happens just pour some water around the cap to cool it down and see if it comes off. Also if you look under the front right side look at the vent hose and see if you can see vapor coming out of the end of the tube.

[Roadster Renovations]

Looks like a heavy-handed mechanic to me. They probably won't admit it was their goof (the dealer). Results will probably be "unknown cause".

[BajaRon]

You guys are better than me. I really can't make heads or tails from the pictures. Not enough real estate for me to say one way or the other.

[satownsendsr]

Well, I drove up to see my bike and the infamous gasoline tank. It is worse than I thought. The tank collapsed on the bottom rear both sides and the top rear which caused the fuel pump to leak. We are talking major failure here.
I talked with the shop foreman and he is thinking that the failure is tied to the Spyder Attitude exhaust system that I put on a few months back. He isn't sure but seems to think that by changing the exhaust system to a Spyder Attitude that it caused the engine to run leaner, thus creating more heat in the piping which caused the tank to get hot and when I put cold gasoline in the tank it caused it to collapse.
I installed the SA exhaust as the directions stated. I removed the catelitic converter or small muffler as he called it and put the bypass pipe in its place. I followed the instructions on resetting the computer by cranking the bike, letting it run for about 5 minutes, shutting it off and removing the key and walking away from the bike to allow the computer to reset.
Now, obviously I have several questions about this theory. how is it that I am the first person to have this problem when I suspect that Spyder Attitude has sold more than one of these exhaust systems for a Spyder prior to mine. He also stated that by the engine running leaner that it will run hotter. I don't necessarily disagree with this. but if that is the case then it being water cooled the fans should have run more or the temperature gage should have run higher neither of which has occurred. I can't get my head around putting cold gasoline into a hot tank causing it to collapse to the degree this one did. My wife took pictures but they are on her phone and I don't have them to post yet, but I will later today.
If he is correct then Spyder Attitude has a major problem which I sincerely think is not the case. I ride with a guy who has the same bike, year and model and has the exact same exhaust system. In fact, I looked his over and talked to him which is why I put it on mine. He hasn't had a problem with his and has had it on his bike a lot longer than me.
This issue is becoming stranger as it goes a long.
The new tank came in yesterday but unless he figures out something definitive about how the tank failed, it looks like I might have the only spyder that cannot run a Spyder Attitude exhaust system on it. I wonder if the Harley Trikes ride any better than they use to????????

[cuznjohn]

i really hate to say this, but i think they are looking for you to pay because you did the mod to the bike

[satownsendsr]

i really hate to say this, but i think they are looking for you to pay because you did the mod to the bike

If that is the case then I will pay but they will need to prove to me that the exhaust system was the cause. If they can prove that then Spyder Attitude Exhaust has a major problem.

[jcthorne]

Sorry but his 'theory' is complete bunk. The vent system for the fuel tank has failed and vacuum has been applied to the tank.

The aftermarket exhaust would apply LESS heat to the tank as the cat is gone from under the tank which is a MAJOR source of heat. The heat goes out the tail pipe instead of up into the tank. Cooler, not hotter.

Next, even IF the exhaust did heat the fuel and you put cold fuel in, there are vents in the fuel system to prevent vacuum. One in the gas cap, one in the evap system. Both have failed in your case as EITHER would have prevented this. There are LOTS of spyders with aftermarket exhaust and NONE have done this. Do not agree to pay for the fault. Push it up to BRP.

I would strongly suggest they test both the gas cap and the evaporative emissions system and find the faults rather than making odd theories. If they do not have the expertise to do these tests, have BRP recommend a dealer that does.

[Huddleston]

[QUOTE=satownsendsr;977306]Well, I drove up to see my bike and the infamous gasoline tank. It is worse than I thought. The tank collapsed on the bottom rear both sides and the top rear which caused the fuel pump to leak. We are talking major failure here.
I talked with the shop foreman and he is thinking that the failure is tied to the Spyder Attitude exhaust system that I put on a few months back. ....
The new tank came in yesterday but unless he figures out something definitive about how the tank failed, it looks like I might have the only spyder that cannot run a Spyder Attitude exhaust system on it. ...QUOTE]

Baloney. They are simply looking for a scapegoat.

[satownsendsr]

Sorry but his 'theory' is complete bunk. The vent system for the fuel tank has failed and vacuum has been applied to the tank.

The aftermarket exhaust would apply LESS heat to the tank as the cat is gone from under the tank which is a MAJOR source of heat. The heat goes out the tail pipe instead of up into the tank. Cooler, not hotter.

Next, even IF the exhaust did heat the fuel and you put cold fuel in, there are vents in the fuel system to prevent vacuum. One in the gas cap, one in the evap system. Both have failed in your case as EITHER would have prevented this. There are LOTS of spyders with aftermarket exhaust and NONE have done this. Do not agree to pay for the fault. Push it up to BRP.

I would strongly suggest they test both the gas cap and the evaporative emissions system and find the faults rather than making odd theories. If they do not have the expertise to do these tests, have BRP recommend a dealer that does.

We had a long discussion about his theory. He is going to run some test on the entire system to make sure everything is working properly. I believe he will find something malfunctioning, that caused this. I tried to explain to him the same thing about the exhaust making it run cooler, not hotter, but he kept going back to the "running lean" thing causing it to run hotter. I'm waiting to see what his tests show before elevating this. He is going to also check the gas/air ratio to make sure that the computer reset after the exhaust was changed. I believe he is trying to find the real failure mode because he understands that there are a lot of after market exhaust systems on Spyders out there.

Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

[billybovine]

We had a long discussion about his theory. He is going to run some test on the entire system to make sure everything is working properly. I believe he will find something malfunctioning, that caused this. I tried to explain to him the same thing about the exhaust making it run cooler, not hotter, but he kept going back to the "running lean" thing causing it to run hotter. I'm waiting to see what his tests show before elevating this. He is going to also check the gas/air ratio to make sure that the computer reset after the exhaust was changed. I believe he is trying to find the real failure mode because he understands that there are a lot of after market exhaust systems on Spyders out there.

Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

What is BRP saying? Have they even been contacted? Ask your dealer for the claim number and call the fine folks in Wisconsin yourself.

[satownsendsr]

What is BRP saying? Have they even been contacted? Ask your dealer for the claim number and call the fine folks in Wisconsin yourself.

No, BRP has not been contacted. The foreman states that he is trying to keep from contacting them because they will claim the exhaust caused the failure and I would definitely have to pay for the tank and repairs. The tank is $500.00. I know, it sounds like he is trying to cya. If he still comes back with the exhaust as the issue, then I will contact BRP myself.


Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

[cuznjohn]

i mean tanks are built strong, so i can't see how this can happen. brp might be in panic mode now because they don't need another investigation on something else bad with one of their bikes. so i will think they will do everything in their power to try and say that it is caused by owner alterations done on the bike and not product failure.

this is just my opinion and i am not a mechanic.

[BajaRon]

...I talked with the shop foreman and he is thinking that the failure is tied to the Spyder Attitude exhaust system that I put on a few months back. He isn't sure but seems to think that by changing the exhaust system to a Spyder Attitude that it caused the engine to run leaner, thus creating more heat in the piping which caused the tank to get hot and when I put cold gasoline in the tank it caused it to collapse....

Seriously! They told you this with a straight face! These guys should be playing poker in Vegas!

You need to schedule them for one of these. But I can tell you right now, they won't go.



But don't feel alone in this. My DPS went out on my Spyder and the dealership told me it was because I installed an aftermarket cruise control unit. Right! My cruise control killed the electric motor which operates the DPS! We had a little discussion on the subject and I got a new DPS installed at no charge.

Dealer stories know no boundaries.

[billybovine]

i mean tanks are built strong, so i can't see how this can happen. brp might be in panic mode now because they don't need another investigation on something else bad with one of their bikes. so i will think they will do everything in their power to try and say that it is caused by owner alterations done on the bike and not product failure.

this is just my opinion and i am not a mechanic.

BRP can't be in panic mode if as the OP says they have not been contacted.

[cuznjohn]

BRP can't be in panic mode if as the OP says they have not been contacted.

i thought they wanted the tank back to see what happened. sorry if i was wrong

[billybovine]

i thought they wanted the tank back to see what happened. sorry if i was wrong

The dealer is dancing here and what he is telling the OP is not consistent. What is the truth?

[billybovine]

Sorry but his 'theory' is complete bunk. The vent system for the fuel tank has failed and vacuum has been applied to the tank.

The aftermarket exhaust would apply LESS heat to the tank as the cat is gone from under the tank which is a MAJOR source of heat. The heat goes out the tail pipe instead of up into the tank. Cooler, not hotter.

Next, even IF the exhaust did heat the fuel and you put cold fuel in, there are vents in the fuel system to prevent vacuum. One in the gas cap, one in the evap system. Both have failed in your case as EITHER would have prevented this. There are LOTS of spyders with aftermarket exhaust and NONE have done this. Do not agree to pay for the fault. Push it up to BRP.

I would strongly suggest they test both the gas cap and the evaporative emissions system and find the faults rather than making odd theories. If they do not have the expertise to do these tests, have BRP recommend a dealer that does.

The gas cap on the Spyder is not vented. Agree that the venting system must be fully tested to find the root cause. It is certainly not the gas tank's fault.

[Huddleston]

.... I tried to explain to him the same thing about the exhaust making it run cooler, not hotter, but he kept going back to the "running lean" thing causing it to run hotter....

Did you ever get lean fuel code? The Buds report should show if it was running lean.

[satownsendsr]

Did you ever get lean fuel code? The Buds report should show if it was running lean.

No, I have never received any codes of any kind since I owned it and I bought it new.
Here are some pictures of the tank still in the bike.uploadfromtaptalk1431783582277.jpguploadfromtaptalk1431783610021.jpguploadfromtaptalk1431783637054.jpguploadfromtaptalk1431783663925.jpguploadfromtaptalk1431783582277.jpg

[cuznjohn]

is it possible for a fuel pump to suck so much to suck a tank in like that