Gasoline Tank Failure

[satownsendsr]

Just got word from my dealer that the problem with gasoline leaking from my bike when I filled it up was because of a hole in the tank at the lower rear left side. He said the tank had collapsed some and the tear in the tank was at a bend where it collapsed. This is something totally new to me. Anyone ever even heard of this happening before? [emoji107] [emoji107] [emoji107]

[ARtraveler]

Just got word from my dealer that the problem with gasoline leaking from my bike when I filled it up was because of a hole in the tank at the lower rear left side. He said the tank had collapsed some and the tear in the tank was at a bend where it collapsed. This is something totally new to me. Anyone ever even heard of this happening before? [emoji107] [emoji107] [emoji107]

Your profile says 2014 RD Limited--I will take that as RT.

I believe you are one of the first to experience a hole in the tank. Sounds like a manufacturing defect and am guessing it should be fixed under warranty.

I do not remember a similar issue being posted. They will correct me if I am wrong.

[Chupaca]

interesting. Hope they dig into the posible cause for this occurance.. could just be one of those mishaps but should have been noticed...

[billybovine]

Just got word from my dealer that the problem with gasoline leaking from my bike when I filled it up was because of a hole in the tank at the lower rear left side. He said the tank had collapsed some and the tear in the tank was at a bend where it collapsed. This is something totally new to me. Anyone ever even heard of this happening before? [emoji107] [emoji107] [emoji107]

That's a new one. Did the dealer offer a reason for the tank collapse? A faulty rollover valve? I hope the dealer gets you back up and running soon.

[Highwayman2013]

Maybe a bad vent?

[satownsendsr]

Dealer does not know what happened.......yet.

[Bob Denman]

This certainly IS a new one...
Sorry to hear that it happened to you; let's hope that your dealer can get you back to "Spinnin' & Grinnin'..." quickly!

[Roadster Renovations]

Since it is non-vented system, a malfunctioning purge valve (or what passes for it on the Spyder could have partially collapsed the tank. I have seen plastic tanks on cars draw in to 1/20 of their normal size. Please keep us updated!

[Tango]

Sounds like a vent problem. Tom

[wiredgeorge]

I would think with the potential liability that the problem will be fixed and Can-Am (BRP) will want the tank for a post mortem. I would also think that there will be little info forthcoming as is normally the case with a major safety issue related part failure.

[jcthorne]

A failure of this sort would require multiple things to fail at the same time. The vacuum relief in the the gas cap is more than sufficient to handle the flow of the purge valve if it were stuck open and drawing through the charcoal canister. So both would need to fail together. The canister itself is also vented to atmosphere and would have to be blocked. There is a reason this has not come up before, just too many things have to align to get there.

[billybovine]

Since it is non-vented system, a malfunctioning purge valve (or what passes for it on the Spyder could have partially collapsed the tank. I have seen plastic tanks on cars draw in to 1/20 of their normal size. Please keep us updated!

The fuel system is vented to atmosphere in the tail of a 2014 RT.

[satownsendsr]

I was trained to always looke at the last thing that changed when something happens. What is different, what was the last thing done? I've owned this bike almost a year now with no mechanical problems until now. The leaking gas tank did not occur until after I had an XM radio installed on the bike. According to the technician that installed the radio, all components go in the rear of the bike and nothing is exposed on the center or around the fuel tank. I'll have to take his word since I don't have the installation instructions but I have no reason to doubt his statement.
I looked at the drawing in the maintenance manual that I bought and it shows the fuel tank is in 2 pieces at a horizontal joint and has bolts/washers/nuts at each of the 4 corners. I would assume, since it does not show, there is a gasket at this joint or the bolts are there for some other reason. The left side of the tank (facing forward) is fairly flat in contour, however the right side is much deeper. I am assuming that this is due to design requirements in order to get the 6 gallon capacity.
With nothing to go on that I did to the bike other than get on it and ride it, I'm at a lose as to what would create enough vacuum to collapse the tank and why it would collapse at this particular location. Still waiting on a possible or definitive reason for the failure.

Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

[jcthorne]

There is no gasket at the center seam. Its a welded tank. The bolts on the corners are for mounting.

[Doc - Riverside]

Is it possible to get a picture of the damaged corner?

I am no Master Mechanic but this is my thoughts on the Gas Tank leaking issue:


1. As stated the gas tank is a 2 piece unit that has been resistance welded to make the tank. The dealer stated he found the back left corner collapsed and this is where the leak was located.


2. Having install the CB system and XM system on several RT’s the question presented was could this installation cause the damage to the tank. My opinion: Absolutely not.


3. Can failure of the vent /roll over protection valve cause the corner to collapse? Again NO. Reason: If the roll over disk located in the valve somehow was able to block of the vent port in would create a pressure in the tank not a vacuum.


4. As was also stated the gas tank is always maintained at atmospheric pressure. Any pressure that builds up in the tank is routed to the charcoal canister, thru the charcoal and out the canister vent tube. Again any blockage in this route would create a pressure in the tank not a vacuum.


5. There are two ways to create a vacuum on the tank. One being the purge valve being open and the vent tube on the output of the charcoal canister being blocked. The vacuum created here is a result of air being sucked into the engine thru the throttle body. Will this vacuum be high enough to cause the corner of the tank to collapse? I don’t see this happening as you would have to be running the engine at redline and holding it there for hours. Never going to happen. The other possible cause for a vacuum is the air stream passing over the vent hose opening. Again this can’t create a high enough vacuum to collapse the corner of the tank.


Based on the theories above now the question is: How did the corner of the gas tank get damaged?


1. 1. It was damage sometime during the manufacturing of the tank or during installation when the machine was being built on the assembly line. If this was the case QA should have flagged the problem and changed the tank.


2. 2. While at the dealer during the installation of the XM Radio something in the shop fell on the corner of the tank and the dealer looked at it and sent it out the door after he put the plastic back on. The leak may not have been present when the damaged corner was done but over thing the machine vibration may have opened the already damaged area.



I have been the victim of number two several times over the last 7 years of owning a Spyder. And when the dealer was confronted about the problem they always say it was like that when they worked on it or it happened after it left the shop.

[ARtraveler]

A lot of technical stuff to digest here.

Is it possible the tank was dropped and got creased prior to installation? Did that get missed, or was someone trying to cover their rear and not get into trouble for messing up on the assembly line?

[billybovine]

I too would really like to see a picture of the damaged tank. Picture worth a 1,000 words.

I am skeptical of the damage and leak caused by vacuum in the tank. Major reason is the strongest areas are the radiused corners and the flat areas are the weakest. If the fuel tank was subject to a strong vacuum, the flat areas would show damage first.

That said, I have seen partly collapsed plastic fuel tanks on snowmobiles. The vent got plugged and the fuel pump just kept sucking out the fuel causing the collapse. That was with the older style pulse diaphragm pumps. Is the electric fuel pump in the Spyder powerful enough to do that? I don't know.

[satownsendsr]

I too would really like to see a picture of the damaged tank. Picture worth a 1,000 words.

I am skeptical of the damage and leak caused by vacuum in the tank. Major reason is the strongest areas are the radiused corners and the flat areas are the weakest. If the fuel tank was subject to a strong vacuum, the flat areas would show damage first.

That said, I have seen partly collapsed plastic fuel tanks on snowmobiles. The vent got plugged and the fuel pump just kept sucking out the fuel causing the collapse. That was with the older style pulse diaphragm pumps. Is the electric fuel pump in the Spyder powerful enough to do that? I don't know.

I will post the two pictures that were sent to me from the Dealer. I can't tell much from them other than the one showing the fuel pump assembly with a shop towel with a wet corner indicating leaking fuel I am assuming.

uploadfromtaptalk1431551828374.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1431551844880.jpg


Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

[Doc - Riverside]

I will post the two pictures that were sent to me from the Dealer. I can't tell much from them other than the one showing the fuel pump assembly with a shop towel with a wet corner indicating leaking fuel I am assuming.

uploadfromtaptalk1431551828374.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1431551844880.jpg


Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

As was said A picture is worth a 1000 words. The first picture is showing a puncture or a blow by say a screwdriver. The second picture shows that the fuel pump doesn't appear to be seated correctly. Did they say what they were going to do to fix it?

[satownsendsr]

As was said A picture is worth a 1000 words. The first picture is showing a puncture or a blow by say a screwdriver. The second picture shows that the fuel pump doesn't appear to be seated correctly. Did they say what they were going to do to fix it?

The only thing I've been told is that they have ordered a new fuel tank and BRP has told the dealer to send the old tank back so they can investigate and try to determine failure analysis. So far, that is all I know.

Thanks,
Steve

Sent from my Galaxy Note Pro 12.2

[Bob Denman]

Just my guess; you probably just got a tank that wasn't put together as well as it should have been...

This wasn't caused by vacuum**. Billy is right: it would have collapsed the longest and flattest area first.


**But it DOES suck!

[jcthorne]

I think the top pic is actually showing the bottom of the tank sucked in and that is the edge created by the fold from collapse. The hole is a tear at the corner of two intersecting creases. The fuel pump assy has been pushed up out of its normal seat, also leaking. Hopefully a pic of the damage once they get it out of the bike will be available.

[ARtraveler]

and . Looks like the problem had some human help.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMHO.....if this came from the factory this way .....it certainly took it's time to start leaking .......Who has been under the Tupperware in that area ???.............You....the Dealer...........No way this is any kind of vacuum caused situation.........If this is story from the Dealer , I have a feeling He /they know exactly what happened and who did it ...............just sayin........Mike

[satownsendsr]

IMHO.....if this came from the factory this way .....it certainly took it's time to start leaking .......Who has been under the Tupperware in that area ???.............You....the Dealer...........No way this is any kind of vacuum caused situation.........If this is story from the Dealer , I have a feeling He /they know exactly what happened and who did it ...............just sayin........Mike [emoji106]

The dealer never indicated that the tank collapsed due to a vacuum, I made that statement. All the dealer stated was the tank collapsed. Since I haven't been under the inner plastic on any part of the bike, I just assumed that it collapsed due to a vacuum. Apparently the damage came from some type of external force from what I gather from the post.
The point that troubles me is the timing of the leak. I have had the bike almost a year and it starts leaking now. Maybe it was damaged in assembly and the vibration finally caused the failure. I don't know. Hopefully a failure cause can be determined sooner than later. This could have turned into something a lot worse if it had caught fire while my wife and I were riding down at Myrtle Beach for the rally.
Not real happy right now. [emoji34]