14K service and OOOOPS! I don't think this is good!

[finless]

Just started my 14K service.

This will be the 3rd oil change I have done so far and the two others nothing was ever on my drain plug magnet.

But this time I find this!

It's a set screw (flat end type).

Any ideas? Lamont, your thoughts please?

I am pretty sure if I took it to the dealer they would not want to pull the engine and do a tear down for this?



Bob

[DrewNJ]

Is that out of the oil tank or engine? Is there by any chance a really small hole through the middle?

[Lew L]

I'v rebuilt more than a few motors-- from 50cc honda s to 350 ci v/8s--just can't think of a set screw inside a motor. Sooooo-
The good: it somhow got transfered into the motor during assembly and you"ve now got it

The bad: Something will soon come loose

It's abviously been in the motor for a while and your is running fine??? So we all can hope it's some kind of assembly error. Most things in larger motors are held together with high torque/high strength fasterners or a press fit. But some kind of sensor( oil level, gear position, ect) maybe be positioned with a set screw.

​Good Luck!!!

Kaos

[bruiser]

There is one of those in the oil pump assy. on the pressure regulating piston.

[DrewNJ]

I don't think the oil pump regulator set screw looks like that.

[finless]

Yes I looked at page 66&67 of my 2010/11 service manual and no set screw like that is listed!

I also pinged Shawn Smoak and he checked BOSSweb and finds no mention of a set screw like that.

While I am worried about it, Spyder is back together and running fine.

Can I say and repeat others that taking out the air box to put in new plugs and wires was a total pain in the butt! But that's done now too and all is running well. One thing I did for next time was to remove the spring clips that hold the lid on the airbox and i pounded the locking tabs on those flat so I can remove them next time! Those clips caused most of the headache getting the air box out.

Bob

[Chupaca]

On oil change, do you let the plug drop into the oil pan then retrive it when draining the pan..? Could that have been left in the pan from some other job. Have seen this happen quite often...

[bruiser]

Bob, I found it much easier to pull the air box if you drop the right side support bar. Don't have to remove it completely. I pulled the mounting bolts and a few other things and let it hang. I had the plugs/wires changed in three hours start to finish on my RT.

[Highwayman2013]

Yes I looked at page 66&67 of my 2010/11 service manual and no set screw like that is listed!

I also pinged Shawn Smoak and he checked BOSSweb and finds no mention of a set screw like that.

While I am worried about it, Spyder is back together and running fine.

Can I say and repeat others that taking out the air box to put in new plugs and wires was a total pain in the butt! But that's done now too and all is running well. One thing I did for next time was to remove the spring clips that hold the lid on the airbox and i pounded the locking tabs on those flat so I can remove them next time! Those clips caused most of the headache getting the air box out.

Bob

That air box is fun! 5 minutes to change the plug on the rear cylinder and 5 hours for the front.

[finless]

On oil change, do you let the plug drop into the oil pan then retrive it when draining the pan..? Could that have been left in the pan from some other job. Have seen this happen quite often...

No I do not. I quickly pull it away so I can what is on the magnet.

Shawn is sending that pick to BRP in the morning. He says he has torn apart several motor and just does not recognize that screw.

Bob

[finless]

Bob, I found it much easier to pull the air box if you drop the right side support bar. Don't have to remove it completely. I pulled the mounting bolts and a few other things and let it hang. I had the plugs/wires changed in three hours start to finish on my RT.

That's what I did. It still was a bear as those damn spring clips hang on everything!

In the end it took me about 3 hours too.

Bob

[Highwayman2013]

I didn't have to drop or loosen that bar on the right side but I did bend down one of the tabs on that bar to make it easier for the air box to slide out.

[speedycoop]

Found the same on my magnet last fall. 2011 RT with 12,000 miles. I guess we will see what falls apart on who's machine first!

Chuck

[Lamonster]

Here's what I found.

Problem:
A small set screw may be found in the engine or the engine oil drain plug magnet.
Solution:
Inspect the oil duct cover in the RH side of the engine behind the clutch basket.


Repair Procedure:

1. To avoid draining the engine oil, make sure the vehicle is on level ground, lift the vehicle approximately 6-10 inches by placing a jack under the right lower A-arm
2. Remove the clutch housing following shop manual procedure for Engine Installed in Vehicle.
3. Remove the clutch basket and the oil duct cover.
   
   1. If the set screw is damaged the oil duct cover must be replaced.
   2. If the set screw is not damaged, clean and dry the oil duct cover and set screw with a solvant.
   3. Apply blue loctite to the threads of the set screw and slightly torque it.
   
   
4. Reassemble parts removed.

[speedycoop]

Excellent! but what is its purpose? and is it nesscesary to re install? I am all for proper repair if it is worth the work involed.

Chuck

[finless]

Lamont THANK YOU!

However I am not sure I am up for that job. While the instructions sound easy enough it looks like that might be more than I want to do.

I will study the service manual procedure:
2.Remove the clutch housing following shop manual procedure for Engine Installed in Vehicle.
And see if any special tools etc are needed.

It says jack up the Spyder 6-10" from the right A arm. Is this saying they want me to jack it up so it is on it's side a little thus not needing to drain the oil?

Also, like someone asked. Can I ride it or should this be taken care of right away?

Thanks,
Bob

[Bob Denman]

Hi Bob,
For what little it may be worth...

...The didn't put that piece inside the engine just because they got a bunch of them for free.
If it was my bike (It isn't...); I'd make sure that it was in the shop and repaired A.S.A.P.
Good Luck, and please let us know the outcome!

[finless]

By the way, I noticed a small amount of oil on the case right under the rear cylinder. That is the exact location of this oil duct cover...

This explains it! It's forcing oil at the seam of that engine cover

Damn.... Studying the service manual now to see if I want to tackle this job.

Bob

[finless]

OK while I could do this job, it will require some parts like seals and gaskets.
If I wasn't still under warranty I would do this myself and order the parts.

So the heck with it... Off to the dealer for warranty repair

Damn.... Not too happy about that as again I have no dealers around me that people trust. Closest one that people I know trust is 200 miles away.

Looks like I will be down for a while

Bob

[finless]

Excellent! but what is its purpose? and is it nesscesary to re install? I am all for proper repair if it is worth the work involed.

Chuck

So my .0002 cents on this.

It must be safe to ride as you would not know this came out until the oil change. Who knows how long mine has been out!
I did my last oil change at 9600 and now am at 13,999 which is why I was doing my 14K service. I have no codes or oil pressure warnings either.

One thing having this screw out, it does cause is a small oil seepage right behind the rear cylinder at the seam where the clutch housing attaches to the case. While doing my service I noticed a little oil on top of the crank case behind the rear cylinder and a little oil gunk that had built up on the left side of the motor near the drive pulley. Not a lot! But enough that I was wondering where it came from. I thought it might have been from the breather hose going up to the air box. But that was clean. Now I know where it came from and based on the gunk it's been doing it for a while.

So it appears with this screw gone there is a stream of oil being squirted up right at the clutch housing seam where it bolts to the case causing a very slight oil leak. It is such a small leak I never even saw any oil on my garage floor!

I swear if I had the gaskets and seals, I would do this job right now.

Bob

[Highwayman2013]

Glad you got it figured out. I'm going to keep an eye out for that screw on my 2012. Just over 20,000 now.

[finless]

FYI as I said above I had some oil gunk build up on top of the case behind the rear cylinder.

I took a picture of it but I had started to clean some of it up with a rag before taking the picture.
This is not from the breather hose either as that was totally clean.

Based on this amount of gunk and the slight oil leak, it has obviously been doing it for a while.

I checked my records and I did my 9600 mile service on 8/17/2014. So that screw fell out since then. Who knows how long ago!
Could have been 2 weeks ago (which I doubt based on the gunk) or 4600 miles ago! If I had to guess I would say it started about 2K miles ago or about 1/2 way into my oil change.

Thoughts from others?



Bob

[finless]

Look at my old plugs after 14K.

I would say my Spyder has been running pretty good



Bob

[Bob Denman]

Yup! That's a real nice color...

[Dennis in Lodi]

The Good: no apparent damage to the set screw. If damaged, it could start a catastrophic chain of events inside your motor.
The concern: It appears to be part of a cylinder wall oil cooling passage. I suspect the majority of the oil going through this passage chamber for cooling would be lost out the open thread. I would trailer this bike to the dealer. If the piston rings scuff from over heating, it will lead to a racing term called "black death" of the motor.

If my plugs looked like that at 14K I would probably go for custom mapping with a power comander V. I would also send the ECU in to balance and reflash the power curves. V twin manufacturers always dump too much fuel in the rear cylinder and retard the timing advance around the 4K rpm range to redline. This extra fueling and retarding help make sure the bike gets through warranty. The left plug is OK the right rear plug needs help.

My heart would have skipped a beat if I would have seen that threaded plug on the magnet. If your bike is under warranty I would not even start it. I would also ask to inspect under this cover myself for any signs of damage before they put it back together. I have been around blown racing cycle motors for 40 plus years, this is a real concern
Best of luck