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Thread: Reliability

  1. #51
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    On certain issues a site of this size is going to have differing opinions on most everything. There are people that don't always agree with me (and I could name a few--but wont), and there are some I don't agree with either. I am a firm believer in letting each express their opinion. I have never used "ignore" because I do want to see what others say on various topics. I do occasionally bite my tongue or zip my lip because I do not want to add fuel where it is not needed.

    I have never got into a long drawn out disagreement with anyone, and will keep it that way.

    I respectfully disagree that there is an old member/new member thing going on. Most of the "old" guard are very knowledgeable concerning lore and information. People can still get answers about their "new to them" 08's and 09's" if they need it.

    Many of the "old" guard have also kept up on the latest and greatest. We have several now that can give current information on the 1330's and the F3's. Most have many miles under their belts when it comes to .

    Most try to be welcoming and helpful to any and all. I for one am glad that not everything is of a technical nature, and if it was, life would get very boring, very quickly. As members of a community that has the in common, we like to hear about other subjects that concern members of the community.
    Last edited by ARtraveler; 04-03-2015 at 05:25 PM.

    Currently Owned: 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium), 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) Pictures of 2008 and 2009 Spyders are in Alaska Albums 2009 and 2010.
    5 Spyders, 10 years, 145,375 miles


  2. #52
    Active Member coastrider's Avatar
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    I'm firmly in the camp that believes that technical information and tips are the best reason for being here. While there's nothing wrong with war stories and opinions, when they take over the conversation and legitimate questions or opinions are ridiculed its time to perform a self-check. BRP doesn't love you, and the Spyder is a commodity. BRP makes its decisions based on their bottom line and there's nothing wrong with that. Where we go off the rails is when we start defending them and stifling discussion, no matter how valid the criticism might be. To those members who insist that nobody say anything negative about our rides, remember that you didn't design it or build it. All you did was put your money on the table. If you're that insecure about your decision making abilities, you're in the wrong forum.

  3. #53
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdave View Post
    Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

    This is from the May issue of Consumer Reports as posted here: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...onsumer+report

    Consumers Union sends, presumably at random, surveys every year to several thousand subscribers. Maybe they send surveys to all subscribers. I don't recall as it has been years since I subscribed to the magazine. The people are requested to list their vehicles that were, IIRC, bought new within the previous 5 years and to rate their experience about all sorts of criteria, including how many times the vehicle has been in the shop for repairs, and what type of repairs were needed. It takes a long time to completely fill out the survey as there are a lot of questions on them. CU has been at this for a long time so I'm sure they have refined their techniques to elicit as accurate and objective a response as possible. In a May 2013 article about motorcycle reliability (bought new from 2009 to 2012) on their website they state that differences less than 4% are meaningless. They also adjust the data to eliminate differences related solely to age to and mileage. That probably applies to the data shown above.

    You can quibble all you want about the data above but like it or not, it is a fair representation of the percent of owners reporting problems. That does not necessarily mean the percent of bikes having problems, although it probably is close. How much the data is impacted by those who do their own repairs vs. take to a shop is a valid question, but I doubt it makes very much difference in the end.

    EDIT: I just looked closer at the scanned pages in the other thread. At the bottom it says differences fewer than 10 percentage points are meaningless. It also state failure rates are for 4 year old motorcycles bought new and not covered by a service contract. That means repair rates for contract covered bikes is not included, so we can't know what the real repair rate is for bikes up to 3 years old.
    Last edited by IdahoMtnSpyder; 04-03-2015 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Add info.

    2014 Copper RTS

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  4. #54
    Very Active Member Cruzr Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewNJ View Post
    Interesting, you've never met me, have never even spoken to me, yet you feel you think you know me.....[emoji23] [emoji107]
    You seriously are clueless....[emoji6]


    While I am in the same box as Bob, because I don't know you or have never spoke with you, the problem i have with you is when you give advice to people that are asking for help or advice and you start off with ................"just disconnect it and don't worry about it". That is what you told a new owner about his brake fluid sensor problem. That was so wrong and dangerous in so many ways. I can only help with some minor repair or mod issues so i don't get into major "problem fixing" areas, but to give someone advise that could harm them or someone else puts you in my "wrong" book and i understand that you don't care. Mag Dave has a lot of good advice, i don't always agree with his advice but none of it ever seemed harmful to someone. This statement is so that others will maybe have an understanding of why i post anything regarding you, and i understand that if i don't like your post i came pass over them or put you on ignore, they same way you can do me. I am speaking for myself so you can take it for what it's worth.



    Cruzr Joe
    [SIZE=4]2018 F3 Limited, BRP Driver Backrest, Spyderpops Lighted Bump Skid, Dual Spyclops Light, Mirror Turn Signals, Laser Alignment, Engine LEDs, Fog Lights With Halo's, Cushion Handgrips, BRT LEDs, and Under Lighting, Lamonster IPS, (with Clock), F4 25" Vented Windshield with Wings, Airhawk "R" Cushions. Position 4 Brake setting, Short reach Handlebars, Dash Mounted Voltmeter and 12 Volt Plug. Set of 3rd pegs. Extended Passenger Seat. Exterior BRP Connect setup, Ultimate Trailer/SIZE]

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzr Joe View Post

    While I am in the same box as Bob, because I don't know you or have never spoke with you, the problem i have with you is when you give advice to people that are asking for help or advice and you start off with ................"just disconnect it and don't worry about it". That is what you told a new owner about his brake fluid sensor problem. That was so wrong and dangerous in so many ways. I can only help with some minor repair or mod issues so i don't get into major "problem fixing" areas, but to give someone advise that could harm them or someone else puts you in my "wrong" book and i understand that you don't care. Mag Dave has a lot of good advice, i don't always agree with his advice but none of it ever seemed harmful to someone. This statement is so that others will maybe have an understanding of why i post anything regarding you, and i understand that if i don't like your post i came pass over them or put you on ignore, they same way you can do me. I am speaking for myself so you can take it for what it's worth.



    Cruzr Joe
    That is your opinion, and your welcome to it.
    I really don't care if you like me, what I say, or what I recommend. Like you said, you really aren't a mechanical type person so I really wouldn't expect you to understand. Again, your problem.
    You can continue to act like a child and bring me up in every thread you want. The more you do it just shows more and more how childish you really are.

    Joe, honestly I don't care enough to like or dislike you. That how unimportant you and what you say are in my world. So carry on!

  6. #56
    Very Active Member PaladinLV's Avatar
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    There's an old adage in the world of statistics.

    "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

    AJ

  7. #57
    Very Active Member Dan McNally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdave View Post
    Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words

    The CanAm has many more very complicated systems than some two-wheeled motorcycles . . . things which a dealer needs to address because they are beyond the capability of most owners. But for me, I am quite happy with stability control, differential power steering, anti-lock brakes, and, yes, even the "nanny." Comparing a $30,000 Spyder with a Yamaha SR-400 is comparing apples to oranges . . . and that is part of the fallacy in articles like this, as they compare by brand, not by model. Would you consider at article that compared maintenance costs for an IndyCar and a Toyota Corolla as legitimate? Apples and oranges . . .


    "Topper" is my Pearl White 2013 RT-LTD

    Professional Retiree - liked it so much when I retired from the USAF, that I started another career so I could do it again!

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  8. #58
    Very Active Member MikeinGA's Avatar
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    Consumer Reports has always been is a good at getting the best data on a product. It looks like fair report. I'm one of the 42% and I think it's a good number.


    Mike

  9. #59
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayfield View Post
    Comparing a $30,000 Spyder with a Yamaha SR-400 is comparing apples to oranges . . . and that is part of the fallacy in articles like this, as they compare by brand, not by model. Would you consider at article that compared maintenance costs for an IndyCar and a Toyota Corolla as legitimate? Apples and oranges . . .
    There really is no fallacy in the ratings as they are presented. Consumers Union is not comparing power, speed, handling, etc., of the bikes. If they were then your point would be totally valid. It would be difficult and impractical to find another motorcycle to make a direct comparison to a Spyder. And if you could, and did, do that as you are suggesting there would be so many individual categories that the report in the end would be seriously lacking in meaningful information. Consider this. Cars are pretty much built in assembly plants dedicated to a specific brand. Power sports equipment is not. Honda, for instance, manufactures a whole variety of motorcycles in a new plant in Japan. Goldwing manufacture was moved from Ohio to Japan and there is no 2011 Goldwing model. The same assembly line that makes the Goldwing makes a trail bike, the way I understand it. The methods and quality management are going to be basically the same for both machines. Hence, a judgement about quality of motorcycles is not a judgement of a particular model, but of the brand Honda. The quality practices of Harley Davidson apply across the board to all their machines. In fact years ago the quality management program they used for motorcycle manufacture was applied to bomb bodies they made for the US military. So like it or not, the report shows that 4 year old Harley Davidson bikes require fewer repairs than 4 year old Can Am Spyders, regardless of model.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.

  10. #60
    Registered Users Dan_Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WasWinger View Post
    The quality practices of Harley Davidson apply across the board to all their machines. In fact years ago the quality management program they used for motorcycle manufacture was applied to bomb bodies they made for the US military.
    One of my dissertations was in quality management. Nearly all manufacturing companies use a quality management program, as do hospitals and chain stores, and etc. All of these programs are highly similar. They are all based on total quality management concepts. Albeit, some use more statistics, some use more flow charts, and some entail more employee empowerment. But in their core, they are all the same.
    Dan

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  11. #61
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Ashley View Post
    One of my dissertations was in quality management. Nearly all manufacturing companies use a quality management program, as do hospitals and chain stores, and etc. All of these programs are highly similar. They are all based on total quality management concepts. Albeit, some use more statistics, some use more flow charts, and some entail more employee empowerment. But in their core, they are all the same.
    That's because they're all based on the quality principles of Deming and Juran. Where they differ, sometimes greatly, is in implementation, understanding, and attitude. From what I have read here in the forums and the service manual and observation of my RT, BRP has a lot of room for improvement in implementation, which reflects a need in improvement in understanding. Inconsistency in use of nomenclature from one year to the next and one part of the manual to another reflects that. I spent 22 years monitoring contractors compliance with contract provisions. Much of that involved doing audits of quality programs.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.

  12. #62
    Registered Users Dan_Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WasWinger View Post
    That's because they're all based on the quality principles of Deming and Juran. Where they differ, sometimes greatly, is in implementation, understanding, and attitude. From what I have read here in the forums and the service manual and observation of my RT, BRP has a lot of room for improvement in implementation, which reflects a need in improvement in understanding. Inconsistency in use of nomenclature from one year to the next and one part of the manual to another reflects that. I spent 22 years monitoring contractors compliance with contract provisions. Much of that involved doing audits of quality programs.
    Yeah. There is a lot of managerial lip service given to quality. Thing is, the employees see right through that "program of the month" junk.
    Dan

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  13. #63
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_Ashley View Post
    Yeah. There is a lot of managerial lip service given to quality. Thing is, the employees see right through that "program of the month" junk.
    What I observed when I was working for the Army overseeing QA programs of ammo plants, and what others reported for other companies, is the middle layers of management were the toughest to convince and turn around. The people on the floor, and in the top corner office, "got it" fairly quickly. It was everyone in between who were the tough nuts to crack. I read somewhere a few years ago that the biggest contributor to GM shutting down Saturn were middle level managers who were transferred to Saturn as other parts of GM were scaling back. It was those managers who didn't grasp QA and sabotaged the superb QA program Saturn had in place, hence it went down the tubes.

    2014 Copper RTS

    Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.

  14. #64
    Very Active Member bscrive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdave View Post
    Hmm one picture is worth a thousand words




    I can see this.

    I have had my Valkyrie for over 12 years and it has never broke down on me once. Valkyries and Goldwings can get well over 300,000 miles on them. Spyders will never achieve this.

    My wife's 2013 STL is at the dealer's right now getting the coolant leak fixed. Bad water pump.

    I guess the 'percent failed' probably refers to how many have had to be repaired vs the total sold. It is still a good indication.

    If 100,000 Yamaha's have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 11,000 have been repaired, that is pretty good.

    If 100,000 Can Ams have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 42,000 had to be repaired that is not so good.

    Truth be told. If my wife could ride a two wheeler, she would not have a Can Am. She would be riding a Honda. If Honda came out with a reverse trike, we would buy it.
    Last edited by bscrive; 04-04-2015 at 08:44 PM.

  15. #65
    Registered Users Dan_Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bscrive View Post
    I can see this.

    I have had my Valkyrie for over 12 years and it has never broke down on me once. Valkyries and Goldwings can get well over 300,000 miles on them. Spyders will never achieve this.

    My wife's 2013 STL is at the dealer's right now getting the coolant leak fixed. Bad water pump.

    I guess the 'percent failed' probably refers to how many have had to be repaired vs the total sold. It is still a good indication.

    If 100,000 Yamaha's have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 11,000 have been repaired, that is pretty good.

    If 100,000 Can Ams have been sold, in a certain time frame, and 42,000 had to be repaired that is not so good.

    Truth be told. If my wife could ride a two wheeler, she would not have a Can Am. She would be riding a Honda. If Honda came out with a reverse trike, we would buy it.
    Are those numbers actually reported, or did you make them up for illustration purposes.
    Dan

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  16. #66
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    Default ?????

    Good God !!! Will you KIDS stop..........good information here, not a "temper tantrum" site..
    We all have input on this site..........don't take it personal and make personal attacks.........
    Now who wants to disagree with me

  17. #67
    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Who wants some ice cream???

  18. #68
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Be your own best judge. If you enjoy the Spyder and it has been relatively problem free then ride and enjoy. If you got a POS, or thought the machine was perpetual, sort it out and get what you desire.

    What a simple waste of time reading this crap over and over and over and over...

    Yes I do know how the EFI works, the other descriptions are accurate.

    PK

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    Be careful Paul, there are a lot of very stubborn people around here with very thin skin. You don't want to be accused of having a bad attitude, giving bad advice, or worse being from NJ!......[emoji38]

  20. #70
    Very Active Member Bob Denman's Avatar
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    Drew,
    You have to remember; Paul isn't from "Joizee"...

  21. #71
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    No, I am not from NJ, but that is not important.

    If I had a magic wand to fix the Spyder woes, no doubt some would be unhappy all was fixed.

    This is a cool website that is littered with diverse people and talent. Done right there is so much potential for learning, friendship, and destinations or people to ride with.

    Some folks do need to toughen up a bit and quit the worry over things that are not important.

    So many here talk like they would kill the other guy, however I suspect if met in person, the hugs nd good words would make me puke like seeing two flaming queers holding hands in a supermarket.

    Get over it people. It's a toy, an expensive toy and everyone that reads Consumer Reports is taking it as gospel as if it were on the major news networks.

    Does Spyderfest have grudge match mud wrestling. That is where this should be settled.

    PK

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Drew,
    You have to remember; Paul isn't from "Joizee"...
    Could have fooled me with that last post. ....[emoji23] [emoji23]
    He would fit right in! Go get em' Paul! [emoji12]
    Last edited by DrewNJ; 04-05-2015 at 11:28 AM.

  23. #73
    Very Active Member JKMSPYDER's Avatar
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    Default CONSUMER REPORTS

    I have had my ST-S for over two years now and the only problem I have had outside of regular maintenance and recalls was a bad purge valve. It was promptly replaced under warranty. I now have almost 18,000 miles on it and would not be afraid to ride it anywhere. I have ridden to Texas and Spyderfest with no issues. In July I am riding to Deadwood, SD. So the 42% doesn't apply to me.
    2015 F3-S Can-Am Red, SE6

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    2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles

  24. #74
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewNJ View Post
    Could have fooled me with that last post. ....[emoji23] [emoji23]
    He would fit right in! Go get em' Paul! [emoji12]
    Drew, today is Easter. A day of gathering and celebration for the obvious reasons. For those that live in South Florida, we get to double celebrate today...first for the religious reasons and secondly, today marks the end of snowbird season and all the non residents will head back home this week.

    As for this topic. Certainly not under my skin what CR wrote about Spyders.

    PK

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    Yup, all the snowbirds are coming back up....[emoji16]

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