I'm at my breaking point with gas fumes from my 2012 RT-S :(

[Buzzatronic]

I've hit a fork in the road with my Spyder and I'm looking for some advice. I currently a have a 2012 RT-S and from day 1 I've had issues with really bad gas fumes from the bike both while riding and after I park it. Since I park in a closed garage on the first floor of my house, strong fumes of any kind are not desirable. Gas fumes are particularly worrisome due to the fire hazard they may present.

I've kept meticulous logs of when I ride and how bad the fumes have gotten and how hot the bike gets (using a thermal heat gun to check temps) and I gave my dealer this log at my 600mi maintenance last month. They had the bike for 10 days since they had to wait for parts from BRP and they replaced the canister and purge valve as well as did all the other 600mi maintenance.

I'm sad to say that the new canister and purge valve from BRP have done absolutely nothing to fix this issue after another 120mi of riding.

This is an unworkable situation for me and I need to now decide how to remedy this issue once and for all. I've emailed both BRP and filed a complaint with the NHTSA but I have not heard anything back from either and I don't expect to.

From reading these forums I think my only options are:

1. Try and convince my dealer to let me trade in the 2012 for a 2014 which from what I've read here, does not have the gas fumes issue because it does not have the "heater under the gas tank" design flaw
2. Sell the bike and take a huge loss due to the ongoing NHTSA fire investigation and the 2015 models changing the basic design of the Spyder
3. Have someone do a "canister-ectimy" and remove the charcoal canister and purge valve.
4. Continue to take the Spyder to the dealer every time it gives gas fumes and at some point try and invoke a lemon law replacement.

I plan on talking to my dealer this week about the viability of #1 but I'm not getting my hopes up that they can or will be able to do anything.

I'm not keen on losing significant money so #2 totally bums me out.

I'm leaning towards #3 if #1 fails since it seems a good number of people on these forums have had good luck fixing the gas fume issue by removing the defective canister and purge valve all together. I don't know how this impacts safety or increases the larger issue of heat and a fire hazard, so I'm concerned about this option from a longer term safety standpoint. Since I park my bike in my house, I can't in good conscious make modifications that may be increasing the chances of a fire that these things may be prone to (i.e. the investigation)

I doubt #4 will even work but it's really my last resort if I can't stomach taking the huge $$$ loss if I just sell this thing and move on.

Any advice you guys have would be most appreciated. I really want to be a happy Spyder owner but right now, I cannot be and it's very frustrating.

[Dragonrider]

In 2010, my dealer installed a BRP kit that removed the 3" vent tube from the canister, and replaced it with one that was about 3 feet long - running to the underside of the bike - there were some other things included, but I don't recall what they were. In any event, that issue went away.

However, I live in the great NorthWet, and 90+ degree days are fairly rare.

My 2014 has never had an issue with any heat related problems.

[scott16119]

I assume you are being careful not to overfill the gas tank? I've not heard that 2012 RT's are "prone" to fire.

[3 Wheel Addict]

The canister-ectomy is a Band-Aid and will not fix the issue it only eliminates the storage "place" for the fumes to collect. The root cause of all these issues is HEAT on the fuel tank. I had a new 13 RTS with major issues with heat, fumes, dripping gas and tried a few "home fixes" without hacking off required emission components, however none of these ever made any true permanent fix. With (3rd party) help I managed to get out from under that nightmare and get on a 14 RTS and it does not have any issues. Good luck with your 12 model and hopefully BRP will step up soon.......

[flaggerphil]

What I do is keep my garage door open for 15 minutes after I come back from a long, hot ride. Takes care of the problem for me. I don't have a problem with short rides.

Changing the subject somewhat...that fact that your dealer had your Spyder for 10 days because it needed parts during a 600 mile maintenance raises a huge red flag for me.

[Buzzatronic]

However, I live in the great NorthWet, and 90+ degree days are fairly rare.

I'm even further up in the NorthWet (Seattle) and the air temp doesn't seem to make a difference. I rode yesterday in mid 60's and the fumes were unbearable when I parked it.

[Buzzatronic]

I assume you are being careful not to overfill the gas tank? I've not heard that 2012 RT's are "prone" to fire.

Wasn't this "overfilling" myth debunked already?

Also, the NHTSA has an active investigation of Spyders from 2008-2014 due to reported fires which was heavily discussed here as well.

[Bob Denman]

Have you wrapped the fuel tank yet?

[Buzzatronic]

What I do is keep my garage door open for 15 minutes after I come back from a long, hot ride. Takes care of the problem for me. I don't have a problem with short rides.

Sadly this is not an option for me due to animals that would try and get into the garage if I left it open, including the occasional coyote. Also I have a lot of other stuff in my garage that would be promptly stolen if I left the door open.

[obiwan57]

Have you wrapped the fuel tank yet?

Hi, can you tell me what is used to wrap the fuel Tank? I haven't had fume issues on my 2013 Limited as yet; I just took a 250 mile ride Sunday, and really didn't notice too many fumes during the fuel stops. In my garage, my Spyder gives no more fumes than my 2011 Harley Ultra Classic did.

[Mcubed45]

[Bob Denman]

Hi, can you tell me what is used to wrap the fuel Tank? I haven't had fume issues on my 2013 Limited as yet; I just took a 250 mile ride Sunday, and really didn't notice too many fumes during the fuel stops. In my garage, my Spyder gives no more fumes than my 2011 Harley Ultra Classic did.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...t-Perfect-quot

This member has taken a thorough and complete approach to the issue.
I know that the thread is a long one, but the information contained in it, is absolutely worth the effort!

[Highwayman2013]

Has the gas cap been replaced? There was a recall on those.

[Buzzatronic]

Has the gas cap been replaced? There was a recall on those.

Yes, I made sure it had the replacement cap before I took delivery of the bike.

[samewok]

You have not said how full you fill the tank.
when I fill mine too full I get the smell.
if I put the nozzle in about three inches and pump slow until it shuts off I do not get the smell.

[stewartj239]

The canister-ectomy is a Band-Aid and will not fix the issue it only eliminates the storage "place" for the fumes to collect.

I can't say that this isn't true, but I had the same issue with mine until I removed the canister. The problem was completely solved. After taking the side panel off it literally takes 15 minutes and $12 in parts to do the job. I would say it is worth trying.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...t-Perfect-quot

This member has taken a thorough and complete approach to the issue.
I know that the thread is a long one, but the information contained in it, is absolutely worth the effort!

Thanks for the recommendation Bob. I think that I have done a lot to my 2013 that can really be helpful for others.

[retread]

Has your dealer checked the operation of the purge valve? If it doesn't work, the canister can get saturated.

john

[Buzzatronic]

Has your dealer checked the operation of the purge valve? If it doesn't work, the canister can get saturated.

Yes as I mentioned in the original message, they replaced both the purge valve and the canister at my 600mi maintenance.

[Duffer]

Hey Buzz,

I'm in the same boat with our 2013 RTS. I had hopes that with all of the news about RS's getting panel replacements that our RTSs would have the same option but so far..... not

BRP replaced my evap & purge at our 600 mile service too. Seems better but the weather is WAYYYY cooler now and I've not done any really long rides since.

I had a plan of attack before I ever went to the dealer, so that's where I'm headed this winter. (with help from a conversation I had with Randy in Bellingham)

1) Cat bypass
2) Wrap the exhaust
3) Wrap the gas tank
4) Cut out patterns to insulate the panels
5) I will probably move/remove the canister just for more air flow space
6) aftermarket air cleaner (also for more air flow space)
7) I may modify (shorten) the belly pan for more air flow. Some folks have taken it off entirely
8 ) Finally I'm going to figure out how to get some air flowing thru there from up front. I'll have a better idea of how once I get all the tupperware off

The 'engine compartment' needs air flow or the heat isn't pushed out. It just builds and builds.
You've got 2 heat sources/zones. 3 actually but one seems less significant.

-The radiator is on the right side and has a thick plastic 'wall' that directs all of its heat out the right side vents. None of that air (as I originally believed) blows thru the engine compartment. 2014 moved this stuff way up front btw.

-The oil cooler is on the left side and that air flow is also blocked, flowing out the left vent.

-Behind these forward walls is the almost entirely enclosed engine compartment. As far as I can tell (until I get all the tupp off) there is no air flow engineered into this chamber at all. Engine heat, exhaust headers (2014 headers run under/outside the belly pan) & tranny heat all radiate there. and that's where the gas tank is! The cat is behind and below the engine but its huge and blocks another pathway for air to flow thru and out. The rear of this compartment is open so there is somewhere (albiet seriously congested) for air to escape, but the hot air won't leave unless pushed out.

Header wrap is easily available. The other wrap needs to be the 'pressed fiberglass' type stuff with the foil backing that is bought in sheets. Not the sound-deadener/asphalt stuff as it will get soft in the heat. It can be glued on with hi-temp spray adhesive or that aluminum tape stuff. Randy said, "takes about a day"

It's not 'pennies' to do all this, but certainly way less than what you or I would lose by selling or trading up! Maybe we should have an 'Insulating Party' one nice weekend at my place! I'll fire up the BBQ! Drop me a note

[jcthorne]

-The oil cooler is on the left side and that air flow is also blocked, flowing out the left vent.

Agree with all of your post except this part. The discharge air flow from the oil cooler and oil tank area are open to the engine bay. My next step for air flow if I had needed it was going to be adding a cooling fan on the back of the oil cooler to dischage more air into the engine bay.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the recommendation Bob. I think that I have done a lot to my 2013 that can really be helpful for others.

You did, and it has!

Anybody with heat issues; needs to read your thread...

[oldguyinTX]

Filed a complaint with NHTSA? I have filed two, and sent several Emails as well. They cover the issues mentioned by the O.P. It is very important to file these complaints. As of today there are 63. Gotta be more than 63 unhappy campers out there. I got a return Email today from a gentleman at DOT; he gave me his phone number and invited me to call him at any time to discuss the issues that I have with my 2013 RT L. I plan to call him tomorrow, and if I can get his permission to post his contact information, I will do so tomorrow in a new thread.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/

[chuck gross]

sounds like you are on the right track to making a good machine even better enjoy your project you should have a great outcome.


I'm in the same boat with our 2013 RTS. I had hopes that with all of the news about RS's getting panel replacements that our RTSs would have the same option but so far..... not

BRP replaced my evap & purge at our 600 mile service too. Seems better but the weather is WAYYYY cooler now and I've not done any really long rides since.

I had a plan of attack before I ever went to the dealer, so that's where I'm headed this winter. (with help from a conversation I had with Randy in Bellingham)

1) Cat bypass
2) Wrap the exhaust
3) Wrap the gas tank
4) Cut out patterns to insulate the panels
5) I will probably move/remove the canister just for more air flow space
6) aftermarket air cleaner (also for more air flow space)
7) I may modify (shorten) the belly pan for more air flow. Some folks have taken it off entirely
8 ) Finally I'm going to figure out how to get some air flowing thru there from up front. I'll have a better idea of how once I get all the tupperware off

The 'engine compartment' needs air flow or the heat isn't pushed out. It just builds and builds.
You've got 2 heat sources/zones. 3 actually but one seems less significant.

-The radiator is on the right side and has a thick plastic 'wall' that directs all of its heat out the right side vents. None of that air (as I originally believed) blows thru the engine compartment. 2014 moved this stuff way up front btw.

-The oil cooler is on the left side and that air flow is also blocked, flowing out the left vent.

-Behind these forward walls is the almost entirely enclosed engine compartment. As far as I can tell (until I get all the tupp off) there is no air flow engineered into this chamber at all. Engine heat, exhaust headers (2014 headers run under/outside the belly pan) & tranny heat all radiate there. and that's where the gas tank is! The cat is behind and below the engine but its huge and blocks another pathway for air to flow thru and out. The rear of this compartment is open so there is somewhere (albiet seriously congested) for air to escape, but the hot air won't leave unless pushed out.

Header wrap is easily available. The other wrap needs to be the 'pressed fiberglass' type stuff with the foil backing that is bought in sheets. Not the sound-deadener/asphalt stuff as it will get soft in the heat. It can be glued on with hi-temp spray adhesive or that aluminum tape stuff. Randy said, "takes about a day"

It's not 'pennies' to do all this, but certainly way less than what you or I would lose by selling or trading up! Maybe we should have an 'Insulating Party' one nice weekend at my place! I'll fire up the BBQ! Drop me a note[/QUOTE]

[Bob Denman]

I like both your approach, and your attitude about it!
Please keep us in the loop as it progresses, and the best of luck to you!

[jaherbst]

I am one who had the same issues here in Tucson AZ. I stopped spending money on the problems after $2000. I know some who have invested twice that and still to no avail. I was asked to try yet another band aid fix by BRP along with a few others. This did not work either.

Traded for a 2014RT Limited from a 2013 RTS. Glad I did but feel some what of a traitor to the cause. I got a fairly good deal and took it. At 74 life is short and I want to ride, not battle BRP over there bad design flaws and lack of solving them in a timely manner.

RTS for RTS difference will be around $7500 trade. RTS for RT limited will be around $9500. You will have to add tax and license. If you spend $3-4000 trying to solve the problems and fail you can add this to the above. I was concerned that breathing all those gas fumes would shorten my life, make me more miserable and intolerant and be a great start for an explosion injuring myself and loved ones some day.

Jack