14 & 15 RT's and the battery tender (battery maintainer)

[Bob Denman]

"The OP asked about a battery sitting for a period of time."

...And if the charginng system for the bike isn't discussed as well...
Would you agree, that if the battery is kept fully-charged from the operation of the bike; it'll be less-inclined to suffer from NOT being hooked-up to a maintainer?

[Gray Ghost]

"The OP asked about a battery sitting for a period of time."

...And if the charginng system for the bike isn't discussed as well...
Would you agree, that if the battery is kept fully-charged from the operation of the bike; it'll be less-inclined to suffer from NOT being hooked-up to a maintainer?

The charging systems on both the 998 and the 1330 were designed to fully charge the battery while riding. Once the battery is charged, the charging system shunts its output whether you are talking alternator or stator. The problem some had with the 998 system was they were drawing too much power for accessories while riding.

So if I am not using accessories, my perfectly adequate 998 charging system is keeping my battery fully charged while riding. If I am following the logic here, then you would say I don't need a tender.

Our systems, both the 998 and 1330 have parasitic draw, some more than others. That and the health of the battery determine how long before the battery goes below the level needed to start the bike, not the charging system.

[DrewNJ]

"The OP asked about a battery sitting for a period of time."

...And if the charginng system for the bike isn't discussed as well...
Would you agree, that if the battery is kept fully-charged from the operation of the bike; it'll be less-inclined to suffer from NOT being hooked-up to a maintainer?

Holy cow. He isn't talking about the charging operation of the bike!
It doesn't matter what kind of charging system is on the bike. They ALL FULLY charge batteries while riding. The battery has no idea what is feeding it the voltage.

The batteries are the same. If parasitic draw is the same from machine to machine the discharge rate from machine to machine over a given extended period of time is the same.

The only ways to extend down time on a battery to reduce the potential for a dead battery when not in use (assuming a good battery to begin with) is to reduce or eliminate parasitic drain or install multiple/larger capacity batteries. No, the charging system on the 14' does not guarantee or suggest longer battery life because of output , design or anything else. It doesn't charge the battery any more or increase the batteries capacity in any way.

The charging system on the 14' is just different. That's it. Don't confuse different for better though...another discussion..

I haven't looked at the output specs but assuming the 14' alternator puts out more voltage only makes operation of additional electronics easier on the charging system DURING operation. So you 14' owners can likely bolt on and wire up more lighting and gizzmos.

[BikerDoc]

I like the fact that for years now, our dealer has automatically installed the battery tender plug in lead on all product as it assembled.. Makes it easy for us if we want to use tender...

[DrewNJ]

If anyone is truly looking for more capacity and extended down times without using a tender or worrying about a dead battery, then you all should look into shoehorning a larger battery in the stock location, or consider doing a second battery....but you can do that with any of them regardless of the charging system.

[ottawa-rider]

My rule of thumb is: " If it's been 3-4 days since I last used the Spyder and I expect that it will be another 3-4 days before I do, I plug in the tender." any time of the year.

[RBS66]

That's how I did my 2013 RT last year; works great .

[cognaccruiser]

When we bought our 14 RTS, I had the dealer install pigtails for mine and my wife's heated vests. They ran them from the battery to beneath the seat and sit nicely coiled under the seat until needed. The other and equally important reason for having a pigtail readily available is so that I can plug the Battery Tender into the pigtail quickly at any time.

We don't/can't ride year round and there are also times when we may not ride for a few weeks at a time even during our riding season. I started using a Battery Tender on our 05 Yamaha Venture shortly after new and kept it for 8 years. When I sold the bike it had 88k km on it (55k miles) and the original battery which was holding charge and pretty much as strong as new. I had got into the habit of plugging it into the Battery Tender after every ride regardless of time of year. I believe that it was because of the use of the Tender that we got such long life from our original battery and plan on doing the same with the Spyder. It seems that all vehicles these days have so much electronic demand on them that there is more lose due to parasitic draw while parked. Keeping the battery at full power at all times should help to make it last much longer. At least that is my opinion. Yours may differ.

Gary

[Bob Denman]

I'm also a believer in the "Deltran System"...
And that is what I am basing my beliefs upon.
Personal Observation:
With my 998; A couple of days of short trips or rides, and it'd take a couple of hours for the indicator lights to roll over from Yellow, to Green...
With my 1330 The type of riding, and the light would be back to Green within a matter of ten or fifteen minutes...
The larger charging capability of the alternator, coupled with it's ability to deliver that charge at much lower rpms; tells me that your battery is better-off with the new system stuffing it back full of power.

[bronzeflex42]

I used my battery tender with an 03 Honda Shadow 750, i used to own before my Spyder. I had that bike about 4 and half years with the same battery. I kept mine plugged in the battery tender when i wan't ridding it even during ridding season. I'm going to start doing my Spyder like that..

[bluestratos]

While a tender is not required, I use a high quality battery trickle, conditioner charger anytime the bike is not ridden for a few days. Standard batteries do not like to be left in a discharged state for long and it shortens the overall life of the battery. This is why they make deep cycle batteries to extend the life when a battery is discharged and not maintained by the alternator while in use (trolling motor). We have parasitic loss via the ECM, over a week or so it is not much but it does drop the static voltage. I was told by Diehard manufacture that keeping any vehicle that is not used daily on a maintenance charger will lengthen the life of the battery but not to use cheap trickle charges as they can actually overcharge and cause damage.

[Cruzr Joe]

I'm also a believer in the "Deltran System"...
And that is what I am basing my beliefs upon.
Personal Observation:
With my 998; A couple of days of short trips or rides, and it'd take a couple of hours for the indicator lights to roll over from Yellow, to Green...
With my 1330 The type of riding, and the light would be back to Green within a matter of ten or fifteen minutes...
The larger charging capability of the alternator, coupled with it's ability to deliver that charge at much lower rpms; tells me that your battery is better-off with the new system stuffing it back full of power.

This is exactly what happens on my 14 Spyder. and i agree with Bob.

Cruzr Joe

[Bob Denman]

You mean; I got one RIGHT?!?

[DrewNJ]

No, you just got a buddy to stick up for you....but if it makes you feel better its good to know that your new spyder and battery last longer off the tender vs your 4 year old spyder and battery....[emoji23] Hey, whatever works for you.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks!
And you're right about one thing; my bike, my procedure, and it works for me.

[Gray Ghost]

...tells me that your battery is better-off with the new system stuffing it back full of power.

No question that the higher output of a 1330 system will recharge the battery faster. But the question was about the need (or not) for using a system to keep the battery charged when the bike is sitting. Consider the following:

The 2013 and 2014 use the same battery (21AH), the charging system on the 998 is rated at 650W, for the 1330 at 1200W. So, same size container, but fill rate is about double for the 1330.

It is common in teaching electrical theory to use water as an illustration. So let's say that our batteries are 12 oz glasses. We fill the glass representing the 998 with the tap opened half way, for the 1330 glass we open it fully.

Both systems were designed to fully charge the battery, the 1330 just gives you more amps above system needs for owner added accessories. So each glass gets filled up. At the end of our ride (assuming that we have ridden each of them far enough to ensure that the batteries are fully charged) we park the bike. Assuming that both batteries were prepared properly and that there are no added accessories or electrical problems causing a parasitic drain on the batteries, then the parasitic draw on both should be about the same (power to the computer systems that remain active).

To illustrate the parasitic drain, take both glasses outdoors and sit them in the sunlight. The evaporation is our parasitic drain.

So the question becomes, which 12 oz glass will go dry faster, the one representing the 998, or the one representing the 1330?

[Bob Denman]

I agree completely with your statements...
But that's not the point that I was addressing.
In a perfect World; we'd all have at least a 30 mile or so ride at highway speeds, before our bikes get put to bed...
How many of us are that lucky?
Short trips, in stop & go traffic... often with handwarmers, foglights, and other electrical gizmos hooked-up.
Those are the conditions, where the alternator will show it's stuff. It'll be able to bring a battery back "from the dead", a whole lot quicker!

Thus: if your riding conditions aren't allowing the magneto or alternator to charge the battery back up; the use of a Battery tender is much more than just a good idea...
But the alternator will give you more leeway, in making this decision.

[DrewNJ]

Again, additional poor Bob Denman information and not what the OP was asking about. However,.....Why would you feel you need "30 miles or so ride at highway speeds" to charge the battery?
Its these kinds of comments and bad information that get people all freaked out.

Maybe read, listen, and learn more....post less.

[Bob Denman]

There have been a lot of questions on battery maintenance lately so i thought i would throw my two cents in.

1 - Because the 14s and 15s have an alternator, a battery tender is not necessary for normal year round riding.

2 - If you just have to have a battery tender, here is a simple solution for you (see photo below)



in the front trunk (aka the frunk), directly below and centered between the right and left fuse boxes you will find two

T30 screws, if you remove them, the cover will come off to expose your battery.

you can add a battery tender plug to the battery and let the small connector come out of the rubber plug (boot) just below the left fuse box.

Now you just need to open your frunk (unzip the liner if you have one) and plug in your battery tender.

Hope this helps.

Cruzr Joe

Why don't you re-read what Joe posted?
Iwa simply agreeeing with, and expanding upon the points that he was trying to make.

[Gray Ghost]

I'm in south central Texas and during the winters here, we might have 30 consecutive days where I might not get on the Spyder. At what point (down time) would I need to consider putting on a tender to maintain the battery?

Thanks

IMHO- 30 days is on the edge. For the $20 for a tender it would be good piece of mind to be able to plug in when not in use.

He's got a 2014, with the 1200 watt alternator. This system should be able to hold him for quite a bit longer than that...
I used to figure two weeks for my 998...


Vossr,
I'd try to give it a couple of weeks, and THEN plug it in... Note how long it takes for the tender to bring the battery back up to full power. If it seems to take more than an hour; that's the limit that I'd use.

Why don't you re-read what Joe posted?
Iwa simply agreeeing with, and expanding upon the points that he was trying to make.

Your response to DrewNJ indicated that the alternator would mean that the battery on a 1330 would last longer than a battery on a 998. Joe's original post implied that the battery on the 1330 would last longer without needing a charge. What DrewNJ have been trying to point out is that the higher output of the alternator has nothing to do with how long the battery will hold a charge.

[DrewNJ]

He's got a 2014, with the 1200 watt alternator. This system should be able to hold him for quite a bit longer than that...
I used to figure two weeks for my 998...

But when the bike IS shut down; the battery stands a much better chance, of having a full boatload of juice in it...
Roger said it about the best...
The 998's charging system is adequate...
The 1330's charging system is superior!

The larger charging capability of the alternator, coupled with it's ability to deliver that charge at much lower rpms; tells me that your battery is better-off with the new system stuffing it back full of power.

In a perfect World; we'd all have at least a 30 mile or so ride at highway speeds, before our bikes get put to bed...
How many of us are that lucky?
Short trips, in stop & go traffic... often with handwarmers, foglights, and other electrical gizmos hooked-up.
Those are the conditions, where the alternator will show it's stuff. It'll be able to bring a battery back "from the dead", a whole lot quicker!

Thus: if your riding conditions aren't allowing the magneto or alternator to charge the battery back up; the use of a Battery tender is much more than just a good idea...
But the alternator will give you more leeway, in making this decision.

Wrong Wrong Wrong...

Why don't you re-read what Joe posted?
Iwa simply agreeeing with, and expanding upon the points that he was trying to make.

I really think you need to look back and read some of your advice....

Every one of these comments is bad Bob Denman info in regards to Vossr's question about using a tender. Not Joe's install practice.
Telling Vossr, and others, that just because he has an alternator that has a larger output than the previous stators he doesn't need a tender for extended downtime and that his battery will last longer sitting idle, is just flat out BAD INFORMATION. Telling people that the new system somehow, magically, can cram more power in the same size battery?? Telling those that have the stator system need to ride around at highway speeds for 30 miles to charge their battery?? All VERY POOR information.

You can try to squirm and back peddle all you want but telling people all of this is just flat out wrong. Sheesh...

[Bob Denman]

Your response to DrewNJ indicated that the alternator would mean that the battery on a 1330 would last longer than a battery on a 998. Joe's original post implied that the battery on the 1330 would last longer without needing a charge. What DrewNJ have been trying to point out is that the higher output of the alternator has nothing to do with how long the battery will hold a charge.

Please og back, and take a look at Post #19; I think that you must have missed the one in which we pretty much were agreeing on a wise course of action.

Wrong Wrong Wrong...



I really think you need to look back and read some of your advice....

Every one of these comments is bad Bob Denman info in regards to Vossr's question about using a tender. Not Joe's install practice.
Telling Vossr, and others, that just because he has an alternator that has a larger output than the previous stators he doesn't need a tender for extended downtime and that his battery will last longer sitting idle, is just flat out BAD INFORMATION. Telling people that the new system somehow, magically, can cram more power in the same size battery?? Telling those that have the stator system need to ride around at highway speeds for 30 miles to charge their battery?? All VERY POOR information.

You can try to squirm and back peddle all you want but telling people all of this is just flat out wrong. Sheesh...

You also conveniently forgot about #19; not surprising, when one considers your obvious short term memory lapses...

[Bob Denman]

Your response to DrewNJ indicated that the alternator would mean that the battery on a 1330 would last longer than a battery on a 998. Joe's original post implied that the battery on the 1330 would last longer without needing a charge. What DrewNJ have been trying to point out is that the higher output of the alternator has nothing to do with how long the battery will hold a charge.

Sorry; I NEVER discussed how long a battery would last... I wouldn't even begin to try and address that subject.

[DrewNJ]

He's got a 2014, with the 1200 watt alternator. This system should be able to hold him for quite a bit longer than that...
I used to figure two weeks for my 998...


Vossr,
I'd try to give it a couple of weeks, and THEN plug it in... Note how long it takes for the tender to bring the battery back up to full power. If it seems to take more than an hour; that's the limit that I'd use.

Please og back, and take a look at Post #19; I think that you must have missed the one in which we pretty much were agreeing on a wise course of action.



You also conveniently forgot about #19; not surprising, when one considers your obvious short term memory lapses...

That #19? No, it's in there... AGAIN, posting more...reading and learning less.

The point here is, that you'd expect someone with almost 50,000 posts worth of something to say, to actually give someone good advice. And if they are wrong, have the keyboard finesse to at least admit it..
or is it spending to much time with worthless back stabbing banter?? Any other personal attack comments or shots you'd like to take?

[Bob Denman]

I was tempted to send you a PM about this...
But I'll do it out here in the open.
What's your problem with me?
Every post that you've made addressing me; has been more about personal attacks, than about trying to exchange useful ideas and the different options about the questions that have been asked in here.
You keep bringing up post counts; why does that bother you?
I have always said that post counts aren't as important, as what is being said in those posts.
I have really tried to remain polite to you during this discourse; you haven't made it easy to do so.
I'd suggest that you lighten up, and go for a ride.