Won't start after short ride, is it a heat related issue? 90 days and counting!

[Joe Upchurch]

New battery, tightened all ground wires, new starter and still it won't start -can't get off it and reliably expect it to start. It stranded me at a Church Parking lot - after almost exactly an hour it started up, drove it home (10 miles) got off it, waited five minutes wouldn't start again. Has anyone any experience with heat related issues that will stop a Spyder from starting?

this is a 2012 Spyder RT Ltd with 5500 miles - this started at about the 4600 mile checkup (90 days ago) , then replaced battery, then tightened qround wires, then Can-Am warrantied a starter (installed yesterday) test drove - picked up an hour or two later - started fine, trailered home, started off trailer, started after repositioning in my hanger, drove 15 miles - stopped in Church Parking lot - would not start - waited an hour (called for a tow - none available) started again, drove home, parked 5 minutes, would not start again.

My Spyder starts sometimes, doesn't start after a short ride and is totally unreliable, what to do? My Spyder has been towed to the dealer three times since this started in May, tomorrow will be the fourth time - does anyone have experience with the "Lemon Law" as it applies to South Carolina? I've got reservations for four days at 'Spyders in the Smokies" on October 23rd and am wondering if I'll ever be able to make it.

If anyone can help me, my dealer (Columbia Powersports) or Can-Am with this problem which seems to indicate "heat related" I surely would appreciate it. I really think that my dealer is doing the very best he can and that no other dealer could do any better.

Does anyone have any suggestion? Anyone with "heat related" issues? Would the relays be heat sensitive? Anything anyone can think of would be appreciated.

BTW - not a single code thrown!

Thanks,

Joe Upchurch
802-427-3794

Joe Upchurch
'cell 803-427-3794

[Bob Denman]

Joe,
I don't think that this is due to heat...
there's a wiring connection that's either not really tight, ORRRRR.... your battery was never fully-charged.
Can you put it on a Battery Tender overnight?
Try that, and see if it makes a difference.
If it doesn't; you'll have to check all of the connections to the battery, plus all of the grounds to the chassis...
Your dealer should be doing all of this; but I don't know what they've done, so I'm starting with the basics.
Good Luck; please let us all know what you find!

[Joe Upchurch]

Joe,
I don't think that this is due to heat...
there's a wiring connection that's either not really tight, ORRRRR.... your battery was never fully-charged.
Can you put it on a Battery Tender overnight?
Try that, and see if it makes a difference.
If it doesn't; you'll have to check all of the connections to the battery, plus all of the grounds to the chassis...
Your dealer should be doing all of this; but I don't know what they've done, so I'm starting with the basics.
Good Luck; please let us all know what you find!

Bob,

the dealer has done everything Can-Am has suggested and it seems to come back ride after ride, none of them seem to have anything similar going on. Best PLUSS will pay another $200 tow tomorrow - I'll keep calling the tow truck but the dealer has the Spyder in his possession a whole lot more than I have had over the past 90 days. I'm committed to the Spyder (after all the accesories I have on it I've invested around $40,000 and I was hoping to be able to keep and ride it for 4 years)

[Caito]

I don't think it is heat related issues. Spyder's engine always runs hot anyway. I had a Yamaha ATV that does the same thing a few years back. I would checked the starter relay/ solenoid switch. Good Luck.

[zamfield]

I agree... start with a new starter.

When it won't start is it dead? No turning over or anything?
Do the lights come on, radio etc work?

There's zero reason why your dealer can't figure this out with use of a voltage meter.

[coz]

have they replaced any relays? have you tried switching them around when the bike won't start?

[SpyderAnn01]

I don't think it is heat related issues. Spyder's engine always runs hot anyway. I had a Yamaha ATV that does the same thing a few years back. I would checked the starter relay/ solenoid switch. Good Luck.

They replaced the starter and it still wouldn't start.

[JoeUpchurch]

Switched the relays, new battery, new starter, checked & tightened the grounds.


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[JoeUpchurch]

After getting it home I started and stopped it a dozen times with no problem. Got it up to operating temp - still couldn't duplicate "won't start". - tomorrow I'. Try shutting down in neutral to see if that helps.


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[Chupaca]

from what I see and read..you have a new battery, new starter. Now when it won't start try jumping it to eliminate the battery and ground connections. You can jump the starter which could indicate the starter switch, relay could be amiss. But all there is is battery, relay, starter button, kill switch (known to be faulty) and starter. Doesn't seem that hard to find the issue. Problem is you have to try them all for malfuntion and can't say I already tried that...do it again...good luck..!!

[Bob Denman]

Bob,

the dealer has done everything Can-Am has suggested and it seems to come back ride after ride, none of them seem to have anything similar going on. Best PLUSS will pay another $200 tow tomorrow - I'll keep calling the tow truck but the dealer has the Spyder in his possession a whole lot more than I have had over the past 90 days. I'm committed to the Spyder (after all the accesories I have on it I've invested around $40,000 and I was hoping to be able to keep and ride it for 4 years)

Joe,
I don't know your dealer... so I can't trust that they've done, what they say that they've done...
Some double-checking never hurts!

[Caito]

from what I see and read..you have a new battery, new starter. Now when it won't start try jumping it to eliminate the battery and ground connections. You can jump the starter which could indicate the starter switch, relay could be amiss. But all there is is battery, relay, starter button, kill switch (known to be faulty) and starter. Doesn't seem that hard to find the issue. Problem is you have to try them all for malfuntion and can't say I already tried that...do it again...good luck..!!

I would do the same. Jump the starter

[grumpybob]

Had the same thing happen to a car. Turned out to be a faulty battery.

[Bob Denman]

They can test okay without a load on them.
But as soon as you put some load on them; they get all crazy!
Try load-testing the battery too!

[bruiser]

Batteries off the self should receive a full charge before installation. This sounds to me like a faulty solenoid. It's not a heat soak issue. One real long stretch is a bad ring gear. But that is a really long shot.

[PMK]

When it won't start is it dead?

No turning over or anything?

Do the lights come on, radio etc work?

Speculating, since they replaced a starter motor, it would not crank over initially.

So when failed, does it crank over?

If it is cranking over but doesn't run, that is more things to consider.

PK

[Joe Upchurch]

Every time the Spyder wouldn't start (for me) it was after shutting down in first gear which locked the transmission in first gear, of course. Each time the dealer got the machine they would get it started and probably put it in neutral when shutting it down thereby being unable to duplicate the behavior.

Chris at Columbia PowerSports thinks that there must be something wrong with whatever switch is in line between shutting down in first gear vs shutting down in neutral because I drove it all day today shutting down - starting up in every scenario I could think of.

he thinks that when it is left in first that it first takes it out of first gear then puts it in neutral and then cranks the starter when you push the start button with your foot on the brake pedal; but, on this machine when it is in first and you put on the brake and press the start button it dos not take it out of first and put it in neutral therefore the clicking sound and no starter.

Now, you had better believe that I am quite afraid that I will indadvertedly shut the machine down in first gear and be calling for a tow again.

Does anyone know of the device/switch/whatever it is that is in charge of starting the machine with your foot on the brake and the transmission in first? If you do, please let me know so that I can inform the dealer's mechanic myself.

[Bob Denman]

A foot on the brake normally allows for starting in gear...
glad to hear that you're making progress on this one!

[billybovine]

he thinks that when it is left in first that it first takes it out of first gear then puts it in neutral and then cranks the starter when you push the start button with your foot on the brake pedal; but, on this machine when it is in first and you put on the brake and press the start button it dos not take it out of first and put it in neutral therefore the clicking sound and no starter.

He is wrong. All SE Spyders will start in any gear. This is in the owners manual. For safety reasons when starting in gear, BRP will not let the starter spin unless your foot is on the brake. After the engine is started it will then automatically shift to neutral. It is impossible for the Spyder to shift itself to neutral before starting because it uses oil pressure to shift gears and there is no oil pressure until the engine is running.

The routine should be turn on the key. Flip the kill switch to the on position. Put your foot on the brake. Push the mode button. Press the starter button. It should start every time.

[billybovine]

Here is a video I made and posted before but I think it is time again.
I manually put it in 5th gear for demonstration purposes. Just to show what would happen when you start it. As you will see it will start without any problem in 5th gear and after it start will automatically shift itself into neutral. This works the same for any gear including reverse.

[Magdave]

Here is a video I made and posted before but I think it is time again.
I manually put it in 5th gear for demonstration purposes. Just to show what would happen when you start it. As you will see it will start without any problem in 5th gear and after it start will automatically shift itself into neutral. This works the same for any gear including reverse.

Out of curiosity what happens if you take your foot off the brake before it shifts down to neutral? I am wondering if the OP has a brake switch problem That would prevent start up in gear if the ECM is not getting the brake signal. Personally I have made it a habit to put it in neutral EVERY time I shut down before I put the parking brake on and never use the kill switch always turn the key off. My theory is if it isn't used it can't fail as I have heard some kill switches have.

[billybovine]

Out of curiosity what happens if you take your foot off the brake before it shifts down to neutral? I am wondering if the OP has a brake switch problem That would prevent start up in gear if the ECM is not getting the brake signal. Personally I have made it a habit to put it in neutral EVERY time I shut down before I put the parking brake on and never use the kill switch always turn the key off. My theory is if it isn't used it can't fail as I have heard some kill switches have.

Once it has started you can take your foot off the brake. It will keep shifting if it was not done. It will even rev the engine to 2,000 rpm to engage the clutch a little to move the gears around in the gearbox if it has trouble making a shift. Foot on the brake is a safety interlock for the starter only.
50,000 plus Spyders on the planet and a few have posted that hey have had kill switches fail. Doesn't look like a big failure rate that concerns me.
Could be a brake light switch but you would have thought the tech would have checked for that. Well maybe not if he thought it shifted gears without the engine running.