Lab Report on Rotella T 15W-40 conventional oil

[ulflyer]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...448#post836448

If those of you interested in oil and how well it holds up in these motors followed the above thread, I reported that Amsoil needed changing by 4000 miles and was going to run a test on RotellaT 15-40 conventional oil. I send the lab sample in last week at 3000 miles and it just came in showing the viscosity had sheared down to the upper 30W, roughly what Amsoil showed at 4000 miles. The Lab flagged it a "caution" so I changed it to Motul 7100, a pure synthetic and will test it when it reaches the 4K mile mark. The vitals of my engine were good with nothing unusual showing up.

It will be interesting to see how a real synthetic oil compares to the U.S. definition of synthetic.

[ulflyer]

To be clear, this was not the Rotlla T6 synthetic oil in 5W40.

The oil tested I believe is not even a synthetic blend.

I ask based on your post saying

"It will be interesting to see how a real synthetic oil compares to the U.S. definition of synthetic."

PK

You are correct: the oil tested, RotellaT, is a conventional, good old fashion DINO oil; not a synthetic.

My comment, highlighted above, pertains to the next test on the current run of Motul 7100 (an ester) that I want to compare to an earlier test I did using Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil.

I really don't expect the Motul to outclass the Amsoil by much, if any, but we'll see...eventually...as it will take me a good while to get 4000 on it.

If you want the specifics of the test, go to BITOG and you'll see a more detailed report, as well as the earlier test of Amsoil. Note how closely the composition of the two oils compare, the RotellaT being a diesel with JasoMA rating and the Amsoil obviously being a motorcycle JasoMa2.

I

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You are correct: the oil tested, RotellaT, is a conventional, good old fashion DINO oil; not a synthetic.

My comment, highlighted above, pertains to the next test on the current run of Motul 7100 (an ester) that I want to compare to an earlier test I did using Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil.

I really don't expect the Motul to outclass the Amsoil by much, if any, but we'll see...eventually...as it will take me a good while to get 4000 on it.

If you want the specifics of the test, go to BITOG and you'll see a more detailed report, as well as the earlier test of Amsoil. Note how closely the composition of the two oils compare, the RotellaT being a diesel with JasoMA rating and the Amsoil obviously being a motorcycle JasoMa2.

......So the full Syn Amsoil 10-40w sheared down to about 30w at 4000 miles ......( which I assume is still quite safe ) ..............is this correct.........Mikeguyver

[Polish Eagle]

......So the full Syn Amsoil 10-40w sheared down to about 30w at 4000 miles ......( which I assume is still quite safe ) ..............is this correct.........Mikeguyver

Let me add this to the mix. ---- 1330 ACE engine with 3,000 miles. --- I read about a lot of people referring to shearing as the reason for the drop in oil viscosity. I'm using BRP oil, All Climate Grade (yellow bottle). I sent the Lab I'm using a sample of new oil & my used oil with 2700 miles on it. The V100 (viscosity @ 100C) on the new oil was14.7 --- the used oil was 9.7 Quite a drop I'd say. I had instructed them to check for fuel dilution. The PFC (percent of fuel content) on the used oil was 5.68 %. What are your thoughts on the fuel dilution being the reason for some of or maybe most of the viscosity drop ? I'm going to resample in 1,000 miles to establish a trend. Considering this was the break-in period, maybe things will settle down a bit on down the road.

[Chupaca]

for further developments...

[ulflyer]

......So the full Syn Amsoil 10-40w sheared down to about 30w at 4000 miles ......( which I assume is still quite safe ) ..............is this correct.........Mikeguyver

Not according to the lab which flagged it with a "Caution" and recommended an oil change. You can improve on that by usinga quart of 20-50 to beef up the viscosity and that worked well in my previous '11. The Motul 7100 I just put in also contains a quart of 20-50 as I'm totally convinced that no oil will make it past 5000 (usually much less) without shearing down in the low 30 to 20 weight range. As long as the labs throws big yellow caution flags at me, I'm going to listen. Thats what I'm paying them for.

I've no quarrel with those who go by the book and run whatever they like for 9000 miles. Nor am I suggesting I know more than BRP (that would really be stupid) about oil.

We're all adults and can make whatever decision works best for each of us. The above is what works for me and is tossed out for others who are interested in oil performance.

[ulflyer]

Let me add this to the mix. ---- 1330 ACE engine with 3,000 miles. --- I read about a lot of people referring to shearing as the reason for the drop in oil viscosity. I'm using BRP oil, All Climate Grade (yellow bottle). I sent the Lab I'm using a sample of new oil & my used oil with 2700 miles on it. The V100 (viscosity @ 100C) on the new oil was14.7 --- the used oil was 9.7 Quite a drop I'd say. I had instructed them to check for fuel dilution. The PFC (percent of fuel content) on the used oil was 5.68 %. What are your thoughts on the fuel dilution being the reason for some of or maybe most of the viscosity drop ? I'm going to resample in 1,000 miles to establish a trend. Considering this was the break-in period, maybe things will settle down a bit on down the road.

Is the yellow bottle the Blend or full synthetic? At any rate,
that 9.7 is really low; down to almost a 20W.

And yes, fuel dilution can be the cause. Hopefully, that will clear up shortly as the motor gets run in more. I didn't' have that issue on my 1330 but did on my previous '11 Rt due to faulty throttle body. At that time the Lab threw a Red Flag at me calling for immediate change. Did your lab make any recommendations about the test?

Personally, I'd suggest you change the oil now but not the filter (unless you just want to) and retest the new oil in 3000 miles. Hopefully this is something you can do.

[KX5062]

Excellent discussion, keep us posted Flyer.

[ulflyer]

Excellent discussion, keep us posted Flyer.

Thanks for feedback. I wish more folks would do some testing and let us know how their favorite oil is performing.
If you're interested in more details of my test and reactions on BITOG forum, take a look here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...24#Post3477524

[Polish Eagle]

Is the yellow bottle the Blend or full synthetic? At any rate,
that 9.7 is really low; down to almost a 20W.

And yes, fuel dilution can be the cause. Hopefully, that will clear up shortly as the motor gets run in more. I didn't' have that issue on my 1330 but did on my previous '11 Rt due to faulty throttle body. At that time the Lab threw a Red Flag at me calling for immediate change. Did your lab make any recommendations about the test?

Personally, I'd suggest you change the oil now but not the filter (unless you just want to) and retest the new oil in 3000 miles. Hopefully this is something you can do.

The yellow bottle is full synthetic. Yes the lab did point out the low viscosity & fuel dilution. I did change the oil @ this time. The lab recommended to resample which I plan to do @ 1000 mile intervals.

[ulflyer]

The yellow bottle is full synthetic. Yes the lab did point out the low viscosity & fuel dilution. I did change the oil @ this time. The lab recommended to resample which I plan to do @ 1000 mile intervals.

I'd be interested in how it goes. Please report the results.
You might want to wait to 2 or 3K to give the motor more time for breaking in. Just an idea.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Not according to the lab which flagged it with a "Caution" and recommended an oil change. You can improve on that by usinga quart of 20-50 to beef up the viscosity and that worked well in my previous '11. The Motul 7100 I just put in also contains a quart of 20-50 as I'm totally convinced that no oil will make it past 5000 (usually much less) without shearing down in the low 30 to 20 weight range. As long as the labs throws big yellow caution flags at me, I'm going to listen. Thats what I'm paying them for.

I've no quarrel with those who go by the book and run whatever they like for 9000 miles. Nor am I suggesting I know more than BRP (that would really be stupid) about oil.

We're all adults and can make whatever decision works best for each of us. The above is what works for me and is tossed out for others who are interested in oil performance.

....Thanks for answering my Question about the Amsoil.....................Now instead of 20-50 what about a straight 30 or 40 weight oil added........if I can find a suitable full syn ...( I also have the 1330 eng. ) Any recommendations or possibilities on product.......I am currently using the Rotella T-6 5w -40..............................Mikeguyver

[Bfromla]

Royal purple anyone?? Did me fine on V8's fyi but this is new beast for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ulflyer]

....Thanks for answering my Question about the Amsoil.....................Now instead of 20-50 what about a straight 30 or 40 weight oil added........if I can find a suitable full syn ...( I also have the 1330 eng. ) Any recommendations or possibilities on product.......I am currently using the Rotella T-6 5w -40..............................Mikeguyver

Mike, I can't say for sure as I've never tried it, but suspect 40W would beef up the viscosity somewhat since a straight weight oil doesn't have any (I think) Viscosity Improvers to shear down. Shouldn't be hard to find. As you know, the wider the weight gap the more VI's it takes, so T6 by itself might be hard pressed to make it to 4000 mi.

Wish you'd send in a sample so we'd know as its an interesting oil that is very cost effective. Don't know why I've never tried it, so why don't you be the guinea pig and give us a report when it hits 3000 miles? At 3K you will know how much a beating the viscosity is taking.

Have you noticed any increase in clunking during gear changes as you get up in the 2-3K mile range with it? Reason I ask, some users of T6 on other brands of wet clutch bike have reported that shifting got more "notchy" after awhile. That seems to be common with a lot of other oils in big bore bikes, so its nothing against T6. I was particularly mindful of this when running the Rotella conventional but did not experience any change or clunking.

Go online and pick up a WIX lab test kit and check the T6.

[ulflyer]

The gearbox is what always brings in my fear of a 5 wt oil. At least in warmer climates.

The 5wt lower viscosity is normally utilized for the engine and often focused on the cams especially at start up. The entire combined engine and gearbox fluid can be hard on oil.

I'm not sure, but know it would work, where the test results would sway by adding a 20/50 to "rejuvenate" worn oil. Almost seems better to just start out with a 10w40 and not screw with it. Yes I am old school, so if I added oil, it would need to be same manufacturer and same type (say Mobil 1 as an example), just not a fan of mixed brands.

As the weather cools a bit more, we should quickly reach a goal for the second oil change between 3500 and 4000 miles. I ran the oem oil for initial breakin to around 2500 miles. Changed the filter and used the oil from the "kit", blended BRP oil. The second breakin oil should drain clean though picking up any concerns.

I'm still planning to have the next oil change go to Mobil 1 moto oil in the sport bike 10w40. This will bump the low end from 5 to 10 and will hopefully be more than enough to go 5000 miles between changes. I have no plans to go to 9000 miles, but feel there is a solid buffer if the mileage goes over 5k on a trip.

PK

I know you like Mobil1 and its readily available where ever you go. Why not do us all a favor and have a lab test on it and let us know how it fares?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

.....What relationship does " SHEAR " have in regards to oil filter changing .....ie. If BRP says 9000 mi. on OIL & FILTER can you change the oil at 4000 mi. and keep the same filter till say 9000 mi. or is this just " stupid "...............Mikeguyver

[Bob Denman]

I'm so ignorant about this discussion; that I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut, and try to figure out a not-so-stupid question (or seven!), to ask!
This is a REALLY interesting discussion!!

[M109Dreamer]

.....What relationship does " SHEAR " have in regards to oil filter changing .....ie. If BRP says 9000 mi. on OIL & FILTER can you change the oil at 4000 mi. and keep the same filter till say 9000 mi. or is this just " stupid "...............Mikeguyver [emoji106]

Interesting, my 2 wheeler is that way. It says oil change every 3500 miles and a oil and filter change every 7000.

[ulflyer]

.....What relationship does " SHEAR " have in regards to oil filter changing .....ie. If BRP says 9000 mi. on OIL & FILTER can you change the oil at 4000 mi. and keep the same filter till say 9000 mi. or is this just " stupid "...............Mikeguyver

Mike, I don't think shear has any relationship to the filter longevity.
My plans are, once I settle on what oil I want to use, to run
the filter to 9000mi, unless of course something crops up in'
lab testing like unusual wear metals, in which case I'd want to change the filter when I did the oil. Don't expect this to happen and once I settle in on a favorite oil, I'll do less lab tests.

[mtdoragary]

I started using Amsoil when it first came out and was called Amzoil. I was a dealer for years just to get dealer pricing. the improve
ment it made in my under-powered motorhome's performance was almost beyond belief. But performance improvements on engines that were NOT highly stressed were marginal. As Mobil1 improved their game, I switched to Mobil1 for the convenience of finding it any time anywhere. I've tried Pennzoil Platinum when it was on sale, but am sticking with Mobil1.

[BajaRon]

.....What relationship does " SHEAR " have in regards to oil filter changing .....ie. If BRP says 9000 mi. on OIL & FILTER can you change the oil at 4000 mi. and keep the same filter till say 9000 mi. or is this just " stupid "...............Mikeguyver

I agree with ulflyer. There isn't any relationship. The filters are there strictly to keep contaminants out of the oil system. They only catch solids though, so liquids like fuel and water go right through them. Of course you're not supposed to have fuel or water in your oil, but a little is always present (at least when cold) and it doesn't really hurt anything.

Think of a tire. You have belts made of cords (usually steel or an Aramid fiber) which supports the tire structure. These materials are strong but will give you no traction. So you add rubber over the top. The rubber both protects the belts and give you traction with the road surface. But what happens when the rubber wears away? The fibrous materials are exposed and they are no match for the pavement. They don't last long, and then you have a blowout.

In most synthetic oils, the structural fibers would represent the oil molecule chains and the outer coating of rubber would represent the additive package. As long as the additives are doing their job, the oil chains will hold up pretty well. Once the additives go away the oil chains don't hold up very long. They wear quickly getting thinner and thinner.

This is the 'Shear' or thinning of the oil viscosity that you really don't want. Instead of a 10w-40 oil, you may be running a 5w-30, 25 or even 20 weight oil. This will not protect your metal to metal parts and you'll start to get wear.

And that's where your filters come in. They will screen out these metal shavings and keep them from circulating in the oil. But the idea is to NOT have metal parts rubbing together creating these shavings in the 1st place.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You certainly could do this. I guess the question to ask is how many miles do you plan to ride per year. Also how long will the machine sit without use?

Myself, just for the sake of corrosion protection, I would replace the filter and get rid of as much used oil as possible before storing. Now if you plan to log 9k or 6k or whatever miles run the filter the entire season just don't exceed the books rated number, change the oil at your selected mileage.

PK

........Thanks Paul, and Ron and Ulflyer..........I don't know why I even posed this question, In the normal course of riding I probably won't go 5000 mi.in a season in my neck of the wood s.........and the cost of a filter isn't really a factor since I'm using the Rotella T-6 @ $22 per gal........I am planning to add some full syn 40w on my next oil change ......because I agree the "SHEAR " does have life shortening effect on the oil.........even really good oil.................Thanks again all....Mikeguyver .......annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnd now I can do PICS ....see GAS DOOR THREAD

[ulflyer]

Came across a ref in BITOG to an article in an oil mag with one section discussing when and what criteria to use for changing used oil. Basically it said when the oil drops ONE GRADE it should be changed. Thus, when the top number, 40, gets down to 30, thats it. This seems to be accepted criteria by most labs, not all however; Blackstone appears to stretch this out some.

http://digital.ipcprintservices.com/publication/?i=10654

[Roadster Renovations]

Very interesting discussion! I had 4,000 miles on the BRP oil that was put in at the 3,000 miles service by the dealership. We are planning a long run up into Maine and didn't really want to get close to that 9,200 mile service on the trip so I drained out all that I could (about 4 1/2 quarts) without changing the filter. Putting the same amount back I immediately noticed improved shifting. It shifts faster and much smoother. This is on the SE6. The better shifting leads me to think that at least in the SE6 replacing the oil 1/2 way through the 9,200 mile period without the filter will certainly help the transmission and I am sure the engine as well. I would like to send off a sample of that 4,000 mile BRP oil to see what the shear is on it. Any decent labs out there anyone can recommend?

[ulflyer]

Very interesting discussion! I had 4,000 miles on the BRP oil that was put in at the 3,000 miles service by the dealership. We are planning a long run up into Maine and didn't really want to get close to that 9,200 mile service on the trip so I drained out all that I could (about 4 1/2 quarts) without changing the filter. Putting the same amount back I immediately noticed improved shifting. It shifts faster and much smoother. This is on the SE6. The better shifting leads me to think that at least in the SE6 replacing the oil 1/2 way through the 9,200 mile period without the filter will certainly help the transmission and I am sure the engine as well. I would like to send off a sample of that 4,000 mile BRP oil to see what the shear is on it. Any decent labs out there anyone can recommend?

You can go to NAPA or O'reilly and get a Wix kit or online and order one. Costs about $20 or so and you only pay postage when you mail it in. Wix uses ALS Labs, a large major outfit, and thats the one I've been using for several years.
Put the sample in a brown envelope to avoid PO telling you you can't send it. I've started using a PO where you can do your own weighting, paying, and stamping. Avoids any problems with PO personel. Its not against regs to mail oil, but a lot of PO folks don't know and you can't argue with them. Will be really interested to see how BRP oil pans out as I've never seen a test done on it.