CLUTCH SLIP HELP

[Bob Denman]

Read my post #23...

[Myspyder75]

My big question, which is a big concern to me, and no one has was able to give me an answer, is why do the o rings fail in the first place, or break down or dissolve, or erode, or whatever it is that happens to them that causes this catastrophic failure. Two bad "O" rings and it looses its integrity. What the heck. It gets all the regular checks, brp lubricants only. Whats to stop it from happening again? I am told it is a very infrequent problem. What makes my bike different from the guy next door that doesnt have any clutch issues.

If you have the answer let please post them here in this thread, thanks.
Not an answer but if you remember the space shuttle Challenger, I seem to recall O ring problems there also Bad

"I am having this type of issue as well. Started having clutch engagement issues around 13,500 mikes... Took my spyder in for it's 14,000 mile service, told the service writer about the issue. He told me that the 14,000 mile would 'fix' that issue... Well, about 500 miles after the service, the issue was back... ... Checked the clutch fluid, resevor was empty... Added DOT 4 break fluid. Within 200 miles, had clutch issues again, checked the fluid and it was/is very dark.... Spyder is in the shop now awaiting http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif"

[Bob Denman]

Sorry to see that you're having troubles; but

[Can-Am Poogs]

Think it can't get any worse? Wrong! Everything put back together and they advise not only is the problem not fixed, it is worse. Case file with BRP. Awaiting response. They say it goes through the gears ok but when you crack the throttle in the high gears it still slips but worse now. Wow. Anybody having these problems?


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[Can-Am Poogs]

I printed it off last night. Brought it to the dealer at 9:30 am.

Turns out they had done the same. Guess what? They don't have the proper tool mentioned in the bulletin to properly seat and align the clutch when reassembled.

They ordered the tool, and a couple of more parts just in case. So literally it is completely a brand new clutch. Little frustrating this is the first clutch the mechanic has ever done on a Spyder, but everyone has to learn. Bike promised back on Tuesday.

Please don't let me down.

Service manager has been great. The new service writer is ignorant as . I give her until Christmas and she will get turfed.

[Can-Am Poogs]

"I am having this type of issue as well. Started having clutch engagement issues around 13,500 mikes... Took my spyder in for it's 14,000 mile service, told the service writer about the issue. He told me that the 14,000 mile would 'fix' that issue... Well, about 500 miles after the service, the issue was back... ... Checked the clutch fluid, resevor was empty... Added DOT 4 break fluid. Within 200 miles, had clutch issues again, checked the fluid and it was/is very dark.... Spyder is in the shop now awaiting http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif"

Sounds like a tear in the diaphram. Could be a little tear that opens up when it gets stretched out.

[Bob Denman]

[QUOTE=Can-Am Poogs;872834
Guess what? They don't have the proper tool mentioned in the bulletin to properly seat and align the clutch when reassembled.
They ordered the tool, and a couple of more parts just in case. So literally it is completely a brand new clutch. Little frustrating this is the first clutch the mechanic has ever done on a Spyder, but everyone has to learn. Bike promised back on Tuesday.
Please don't let me down.
.[/QUOTE]

Fingers are staying crossed for you; Good Luck!

[Cambello]

Hi Guys, I've been following this thread closely and my RT-s had a couple of slipping issues at the weekend during a run, but I think the issue is it needs an oil change but when ever I try and find the code for a replacement HCM filter I dont seem to be able to find one. The main oil filter I can find with ne problems, can any on help please,

[Can-Am Poogs]

So, I would like to report that the bike is fixed but it is not.

The entire clutch assembly has been replaced, and I mean every single part.

Its been assembled and reassembled numerous times, and I am pretty confident the dealer has got it perfectly done to spec.

The clutch actually slips worse than when I brought it in.

They pressure tested the bottom end and everything is as it should be, actually better than it should be.

So what is next? The top end. Hydraulic clutch lever. They have ordered a clutch master cylinder. It should be here Thursday or Friday. They would like to have the bike done before the weekend.

I hope this fixes the problem!!!

Anybody ever have a problem like this?

Anybody ever have a problem that couldn't be fixed? What do they do next?

I will post an update on Friday?

The bike has been in the shop for just about 1 month..three weeks for sure...

[billybovine]

Hi Guys, I've been following this thread closely and my RT-s had a couple of slipping issues at the weekend during a run, but I think the issue is it needs an oil change but when ever I try and find the code for a replacement HCM filter I dont seem to be able to find one. The main oil filter I can find with ne problems, can any on help please,

Since you did not share I am guessing you have a SE. You should have started your own thread. I think you would have had a quicker response. This thread will have little to do with your slipping issue since it works differently. The OP has a SM.
Filter part number is 420256454 Oil Filter $8.99 CAD Of course only needed for a SE only.
A dirty HCM filter does not cause the clutch to slip. In extreme cases maybe not allow the clutch to disengage for a gear shift, maybe, but not slip.

[billybovine]

So, I would like to report that the bike is fixed but it is not.

The entire clutch assembly has been replaced, and I mean every single part.

Its been assembled and reassembled numerous times, and I am pretty confident the dealer has got it perfectly done to spec.

The clutch actually slips worse than when I brought it in.

They pressure tested the bottom end and everything is as it should be, actually better than it should be.

So what is next? The top end. Hydraulic clutch lever. They have ordered a clutch master cylinder. It should be here Thursday or Friday. They would like to have the bike done before the weekend.

I hope this fixes the problem!!!

Anybody ever have a problem like this?

Anybody ever have a problem that couldn't be fixed? What do they do next?

I will post an update on Friday?

The bike has been in the shop for just about 1 month..three weeks for sure...

The techs are missing something. I hope the master cylinder fixes it for you.

[Can-Am Poogs]

I have my bike up for sale, because the aggravation this situation has caused me is not worth the price of ownership.

However, there are a lot of good people on this website, and my type of Spyder breakdown is going to happen again to someone else.

There is a solenoid switch mounted to the front of the motor, with a air hose that attaches to the side of the clutch.

The solenoid malfunctioned and the switch stuck in a position which caused the clutch to burnout. It happens fast when this happens. So much so that the two clutch packs the dealer installed before they repaired the solenoid switch showed signs of damage and wear. Replacing the clutch pack does not remedy the problem. The clutch actually slips worse with a new clutch pack installed.

Also, even though this switch is a electrical component, it does not through a diagnostic code.

Good luck, I hope this never happens to any of you, but if it does save yourself one month of aggravation and go straight to the solenoid switch.

[billybovine]

Given the condition of your clutch fluid, this certainly could be the problem. Another possibility which your dealer can check is the operation of the clutch solenoid valve and check valve. Together they provide a vacuum assist in disengaging the clutch to make it easier to pull the lever; the exact amount of assist is computer controlled and disappears totally above 4,000 rpm. However, if the solenoid is malfunctioning or the check valve is not allowing atmospheric pressure back into the diaphragm when you release the lever, you could be getting some vacuum assist pulling on the diaphragm all the time, causing your clutch to slip. Just as though you were lightly pulling on the clutch lever all the time.

gypsy_100 looks like you got this one right.

[billybovine]

I have my bike up for sale, because the aggravation this situation has caused me is not worth the price of ownership.

However, there are a lot of good people on this website, and my type of Spyder breakdown is going to happen again to someone else.

There is a solenoid switch mounted to the front of the motor, with a air hose that attaches to the side of the clutch.

The solenoid malfunctioned and the switch stuck in a position which caused the clutch to burnout. It happens fast when this happens. So much so that the two clutch packs the dealer installed before they repaired the solenoid switch showed signs of damage and wear. Replacing the clutch pack does not remedy the problem. The clutch actually slips worse with a new clutch pack installed.

Also, even though this switch is a electrical component, it does not through a diagnostic code.

Good luck, I hope this never happens to any of you, but if it does save yourself one month of aggravation and go straight to the solenoid switch.

Thanks for letting us know how this turned out. I am sorry you are making the choice to sell. I don't understand it but respect it. For me, stuff with moving parts break and I don't find it a surprise.

[Can-Am Poogs]

Thanks for letting us know how this turned out. I am sorry you are making the choice to sell. I don't understand it but respect it. For me, stuff with moving parts break and I don't find it a surprise.

I know what you are saying. The riding season is short here. May to mid October. I love to ride. I don't want a vehicle in the shop for six weeks. If I did I would own a Harley. So reliability is an issue with me. I must compliment when I picked up my Spyder today it runs amazing. Actually better than when I bought it.

I bought the Spyder so my wife would come out with because she would not get on the back of a two wheeler. Then her girl friend learned to ride motorcycle a year ago and this year my wife learned to ride two wheeler and has her own learning bike. Why wife likes the Spyder too, but I am more inclined to go to a big touring two wheel. My wife will likely want to go to a bagger or a cruiser.

Ultimately we want the flexibility to ride with our two wheel friends. This latest frustration with the Spyder makes it as good a time as any. I've never had any vehicle, snowmobile, quad, boat, or motorcycle break down for 6 weeks. Can Am is the only non Japanese toy I have ever owned. Kawasaki motorcycles and sleds, Honda quads, and yamaha marine.


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[finless]

My clutch vacuum assist was not working. For how long I do not know. It did not burn out my clutch.
When I flushed my fluid I pulled the check valve and cleared it of oil. What happens (thanks to another Spyder owner telling me this) is oil in the air box (which can happen) gets into this valve and fouls it. I cleaned mine up and now it is working correctly.

I am sorry your selling your Spyder over this. A proper Mech should have followed the test procedures in the service manual and found this problem EASILY. It is WELL outlined in the service manual on both test, check, and troubleshooting.

Bob

[gypsy_100]

There is a solenoid switch mounted to the front of the motor, with a air hose that attaches to the side of the clutch.

The solenoid malfunctioned and the switch stuck in a position which caused the clutch to burnout. It happens fast when this happens. So much so that the two clutch packs the dealer installed before they repaired the solenoid switch showed signs of damage and wear. Replacing the clutch pack does not remedy the problem. The clutch actually slips worse with a new clutch pack installed.

That's the clutch solenoid valve (CSV) and check valve that I mentioned earlier. If the CSV sticks in the wrong position, it is as though you are lightly pulling on the clutch lever all the time. As Finless notes below, your dealer took a shortcut in his troubleshooting and should have found this early on, saving you much of the aggravation.

My clutch vacuum assist was not working. For how long I do not know. It did not burn out my clutch.
When I flushed my fluid I pulled the check valve and cleared it of oil. What happens (thanks to another Spyder owner telling me this) is oil in the air box (which can happen) gets into this valve and fouls it. I cleaned mine up and now it is working correctly.

I am sorry your selling your Spyder over this. A proper Mech should have followed the test procedures in the service manual and found this problem EASILY. It is WELL outlined in the service manual on both test, check, and troubleshooting.

Bob

If your CSV stuck in the other position, the clutch would work just fine. But you'd develop some strong hand muscles from pulling on the non-assisted clutch lever all the time. Good to know that you solved your problem by cleaning it of oil. The vacuum line actually runs to the throttle body, not the air intake, and it is a strict one-way system. It either pulls a vacuum against the diaphragm via the vacuum present in the throttle body or it vents to the atmosphere and the diaphragm relaxes. The check valve prevents the atmospheric vent from getting into the throttle body. I would be concerned that you've got a tiny oil leak thru the diaphragm that is getting sucked into the valve. The manual notes that a damaged diaphragm would allow enough oil to be drawn in that you will see blue smoke out the exhaust. I could guess that a tiny leak could end up gumming up your CSV valve but not be significant enough to see any visual evidence out the exhaust. For the oil to come the other direction, it would almost have to be that you've got enough oil fumes in the throttle body to condense and run down thru the hose, thru the check valve and end up in the CSV solenoid. There's no vacuum pulling that direction so liquid running downhill is all I can think of. Doesn't seem too likely to me but what do I know? I'd at least think about the diaphragm.

[jtoro1]

I want to thank route 1 motor sport and I of you who have posted about the clutch problem got mine fixed with all the parts that were suggested here if anyone wants the list and part diagram of all the parts used to fix the problem of dark and missing clutch fluid PM me and I will email the paper work from my repair.

[finless]

If your CSV stuck in the other position, the clutch would work just fine. But you'd develop some strong hand muscles from pulling on the non-assisted clutch lever all the time. Good to know that you solved your problem by cleaning it of oil. The vacuum line actually runs to the throttle body, not the air intake, and it is a strict one-way system. It either pulls a vacuum against the diaphragm via the vacuum present in the throttle body or it vents to the atmosphere and the diaphragm relaxes. The check valve prevents the atmospheric vent from getting into the throttle body. I would be concerned that you've got a tiny oil leak thru the diaphragm that is getting sucked into the valve. The manual notes that a damaged diaphragm would allow enough oil to be drawn in that you will see blue smoke out the exhaust. I could guess that a tiny leak could end up gumming up your CSV valve but not be significant enough to see any visual evidence out the exhaust. For the oil to come the other direction, it would almost have to be that you've got enough oil fumes in the throttle body to condense and run down thru the hose, thru the check valve and end up in the CSV solenoid. There's no vacuum pulling that direction so liquid running downhill is all I can think of. Doesn't seem too likely to me but what do I know? I'd at least think about the diaphragm.

Well to be 100% correct I was told it can foul from oil. I just cleaned it out and it worked. So oil or not I do not know. I did not see any in the hose when I took it out. So based on what your saying now, it probably wasnt oil just dirt or something.

Bob

[Can-Am Poogs]

When the clutch was opened up after making the initial diagnosis that clutch slip in higher gears is from a worn clutch. To be honest I would have looked in the same place.

When replacing the clutch frictions plates, all worn or bent parts, etc didn't work they opened the clutch again and saw signs of premature wearing, they replaced all the other parts, diaphragm, springs, o rings, etc. Guess what it, it still didn't work.Guess what else BRP had sent them the wrong o rings which they installed. More of a mess.

They took the clutch out of a showroom model and put it in my bike. Still didn't work.

The checked the air box and it was dry.

They ordered the solenoid and the clutch master cylinder.

But the solenoid in first and bam!!! fixed.

This trial and error took six weeks.

I have mixed feeling, because the dealer has always done amazing service. And I mean amazing!

The upside is the bike runs absolutely amazing. Better than the day I bought it. I would go as far as saying the shift points are better. The clutch lever is very stiff.

[gypsy_100]

Well to be 100% correct I was told it can foul from oil. I just cleaned it out and it worked. So oil or not I do not know. I did not see any in the hose when I took it out. So based on what your saying now, it probably wasnt oil just dirt or something.

Bob

Whatever works -- that's what counts. I'll remember this if I ever have a problem and try cleaning it before just automatically replacing it.

[Mrlsession]

I want to thank route 1 motor sport and I of you who have posted about the clutch problem got mine fixed with all the parts that were suggested here if anyone wants the list and part diagram of all the parts used to fix the problem of dark and missing clutch fluid PM me and I will email the paper work from my repair.

Hello if you could please forward me the repairs and price point you made to your Spyderpops it would greatly appreciated..thanks in advance. Mrlsessi731@gmail.com

[Peter Aawen]

Hello if you could please forward me the repairs and price point you made to your Spyderpops it would greatly appreciated..thanks in advance. Mrlsessi731@gmail.com

. You might not get a great response from jtoro or too many of the other 'earlier posters' in this thread Mrlsession, cos apart from Billybovine & a few notable other 'still active' posters, the others may not be around to answer and are certainly quite so active here anymore either..... . Probably not all that surprising, since the last post before yours above was put up in September 2014! . So most of the responses & info here will be getting up towards 7 years old & may not be of too much help.

It might be better to start a new thread of your own, with a Title that briefly states your question &/or what you want from the thread.

Good Luck!