ALL OWNERS OF ALL SPYDER MODELS NEED TO CHECK THE CAPS ON YOUR BRAKE RESERVOIR

[MISTERZ06]

This concerns all models of Can-Am Spyders: 2008-2014 GS/RS/ST/STS/RT/RSS/RTS AND WITH ANY TRANSMISSION: SM5/SE5/SM6/SE6

All these models have the same Caps and Diaphragms (BRP Part#219800058) that fit on the Brake Fluid Reservoirs. All Spyders and Models 2008-2012 had the Brake Fluid Reservoir BRP Part#705600735 or 705600549, and all Models 2013-2014 had Brake Reservoir BRP Part#705601072. Even though there was a change in 2013 of the Brake Reservoir, all the Caps and Diaphragms are the same BRP PART#219800058. I have three (3) Spyders. Two (2) are 2009 RS SM5's and one is a 2011 RT SM5. I have discovered that on my 2-RS's, that all four (4) Diaphragms in the Brake Reservoir Caps, had identical tears in them, v shaped. On the 2011 RT, only one of the Diaphragms had that v shaped tear in it, and the other had no tear in it. On one of the Rs's and the RT, brake pad replacements were done, and the Caps were removed while compressing the calipher pistons. The reasoning as to why you remove the Brake Reservoir Caps is that when you are collapsing the pistons, the brake fluid is filling up the reservoir and can cause pressure against the Diaphragm, with no place to go. This could cause a tear, BUT, on my other RS, which has never had a brake replacement done, there are that v shaped tear in both Diaphragms.

That tear in the diaphragm could cause brake fluid leaking down the top of the reservoir and down the inside of the Spyder and landing on the top of the rear Shock mount. In the past I have noticed brake fluid seepage causing paint to peel, BUT, to this time, I could not find the cause. WELL NOW I HAVE! IT IS TEARS IN THE DIAPHRAGMS
This is caused by what? Inferior manufacturing, Bad Rubber, ? Maybe the brake fluid runs so fast back into the Reservoir when you release the brake pedal, that the diaphragm can not hold the pressure? BRP needs to slow down the speed of brake fluid returning to the reservoir with a residual valve? VIOLA A TEAR

I HAVE FOUND, I HOPE, A BETTER REPLACEMENT OF THE DIAPHRAGM

DORMAN HELP! PART# 42081 Master cylinder gaskets These should be availabe at a good auto parts store. These dorman diaphragms look/feel alittle heavier/stronger. When I installed them, I can feel that are making a better seal , I had a harder resistance when tightening the caps.

PHOTOS TO FOLLOW: BRP-WITH V-SHAPED TEARS N New DORMAN diaphragms

Tom n Carol, SI,NY

[billybovine]

Have you ever considered that the v shape slit is intentional and part of the design.

[spyryder]

Have you ever considered that the v shape slit is intentional and part of the design.

The slits are intentional and necessary for venting. Plenty of threads about this a few years ago. There are also venting grooves molded into the caps....orient the grooves in the caps rearward to minimize leakage.
Here's an older post:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...l=1#post112585

[Bob Denman]

Is it just me, or did the original poster sound just like those Lawyers' ads on T.V.; trying to find somebody who didn't get better?

[MISTERZ06]

Is it just me, or did the original poster sound just like those Lawyers' ads on T.V.; trying to find somebody who didn't get better?

Brake systems need to be totally sealed from air. If air can get into the brake sytem, that means water, and water in the brake fluid is a no-no.
I believe the v-slits in the diaphgrams are wrong, and lining the slit with the vent line of the cap is wrong. The cap has a vent in it so should the diaphragm expand, it does not have to fight against the traped air between the cap and the diaphragm.
In my original post I stated that in my 2011 RT SM5, 1 diaphragm had the v-slit and the other had no v-slit.
I have installed the Dorman diaphragms in my 2011 RT, and in two days, no problems and no leaks. We all know that at times BRP does not always make or do the right thing. I love my Spyders and will never go back to two wheels after riding for 46 years.

[spyryder]

Brake systems need to be totally sealed from air. If air can get into the brake sytem, that means water, and water in the brake fluid is a no-no.
I believe the v-slits in the diaphgrams are wrong, and lining the slit with the vent line of the cap is wrong. The cap has a vent in it so should the diaphragm expand, it does not have to fight against the traped air between the cap and the diaphragm.
In my original post I stated that in my 2011 RT SM5, 1 diaphragm had the v-slit and the other had no v-slit.
I have installed the Dorman diaphragms in my 2011 RT, and in two days, no problems and no leaks. We all know that at times BRP does not always make or do the right thing. I love my Spyders and will never go back to two wheels after riding for 46 years.

Sorry you're wrong. Brake systems need to be vented to equalize atmospheric pressure. You're right about moisture being bad for the system though and that's why your fluid should be changed periodically.

[Bob Denman]

Sorry; but .
Hey!
With a name like yours; where's the pictures of the 'Vette??

[MISTERZ06]

Sorry you're wrong. Brake systems need to be vented to equalize atmospheric pressure. You're right about moisture being bad for the system though and that's why your fluid should be changed periodically.

In reply to SPYRYDER Post You say I wrong and I say you are wrong. Automobile brake systems are not vented, and what you think might be a vent in the cap is to let the air escape between the diaphragm and the cap, should the diaphragm expand due to either atmospheric pressure causing the brake fluid to expand or because too much brake fluid is in the reservoir. I have built Promods and have sent my best friend 250 mph in the quarter mile and I built the brake system, and no way was there or would there be a vent in the master cyclinder or the diaphragm. The reason they suggest flushing and innstalling new brake fluid periodically is to remove moisture in the brake fluid and any air. No matter what one does, moisture some how finds its way into a sealed system.
Look at the clutch systems on the manual Spyders, they have a master cylinder, they use brake fluid and they are sealed, no vents.

[Pennyrick]

This concerns all models of Can-Am Spyders: 2008-2014 GS/RS/ST/STS/RT/RSS/RTS AND WITH ANY TRANSMISSION: SM5/SE5/SM6/SE6

All these models have the same Caps and Diaphragms (BRP Part#219800058) that fit on the Brake Fluid Reservoirs. All Spyders and Models 2008-2012 had the Brake Fluid Reservoir BRP Part#705600735 or 705600549, and all Models 2013-2014 had Brake Reservoir BRP Part#705601072. Even though there was a change in 2013 of the Brake Reservoir, all the Caps and Diaphragms are the same BRP PART#219800058. I have three (3) Spyders. Two (2) are 2009 RS SM5's and one is a 2011 RT SM5. I have discovered that on my 2-RS's, that all four (4) Diaphragms in the Brake Reservoir Caps, had identical tears in them, v shaped. On the 2011 RT, only one of the Diaphragms had that v shaped tear in it, and the other had no tear in it. On one of the Rs's and the RT, brake pad replacements were done, and the Caps were removed while compressing the calipher pistons. The reasoning as to why you remove the Brake Reservoir Caps is that when you are collapsing the pistons, the brake fluid is filling up the reservoir and can cause pressure against the Diaphragm, with no place to go. This could cause a tear, BUT, on my other RS, which has never had a brake replacement done, there are that v shaped tear in both Diaphragms.

That tear in the diaphragm could cause brake fluid leaking down the top of the reservoir and down the inside of the Spyder and landing on the top of the rear Shock mount. In the past I have noticed brake fluid seepage causing paint to peel, BUT, to this time, I could not find the cause. WELL NOW I HAVE! IT IS TEARS IN THE DIAPHRAGMS
This is caused by what? Inferior manufacturing, Bad Rubber, ? Maybe the brake fluid runs so fast back into the Reservoir when you release the brake pedal, that the diaphragm can not hold the pressure? BRP needs to slow down the speed of brake fluid returning to the reservoir with a residual valve? VIOLA A TEAR

I HAVE FOUND, I HOPE, A BETTER REPLACEMENT OF THE DIAPHRAGM

DORMAN HELP! PART# 42081 Master cylinder gaskets These should be availabe at a good auto parts store. These dorman diaphragms look/feel alittle heavier/stronger. When I installed them, I can feel that are making a better seal , I had a harder resistance when tightening the caps.

PHOTOS TO FOLLOW: BRP-WITH V-SHAPED TEARS N New DORMAN diaphragms

Tom n Carol, SI,NY

When BRP tells me they have redesigned the system to conform to your specifications, I might heed the alarmist warning in the headline of your post. It kinda like yelling the sky is falling.

[spyryder]

In reply to SPYRYDER Post You say I wrong and I say you are wrong. Automobile brake systems are not vented, and what you think might be a vent in the cap is to let the air escape between the diaphragm and the cap, should the diaphragm expand due to either atmospheric pressure causing the brake fluid to expand or because too much brake fluid is in the reservoir. I have built Promods and have sent my best friend 250 mph in the quarter mile and I built the brake system, and no way was there or would there be a vent in the master cyclinder or the diaphragm. The reason they suggest flushing and innstalling new brake fluid periodically is to remove moisture in the brake fluid and any air. No matter what one does, moisture some how finds its way into a sealed system.
Look at the clutch systems on the manual Spyders, they have a master cylinder, they use brake fluid and they are sealed, no vents.

Take a look at your Dorman replacement and tell me if it's similar to these diaphragms which happen to have precision slits cut into them. The left is Chrysler and the one on the right is from a Ford:

[MISTERZ06]

Take a look at your Dorman replacement and tell me if it's similar to these diaphragms which happen to have precision slits cut into them. The left is Chrysler and the one on the right is from a Ford:

The Dorman #42081 diaphragms I used are for various Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge models 1978-1998 and there are no holes or slits.

[spyryder]

The Dorman #42081 diaphragms I used are for various Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge models 1978-1998 and there are no holes or slits.

They can be hard to see if you don't push on them like I did with the one on the left.....and here's the vent opening on my Spyder's clutch cap. There are two of them, one on each side. I removed the cap and the diaphragm has two small dimples...I imagine those are the vents but a bit too small to make them out.

[bruiser]

My Vulcan brake fluid cap had a slit in it.

Where did you get your doctorate in brake design?

[MISTERZ06]

Take a look at your Dorman replacement and tell me if it's similar to these diaphragms which happen to have precision slits cut into them. The left is Chrysler and the one on the right is from a Ford:

Yes, the Dorman diaphragm (#42081) I used looks identical to the two pictures you are showing, and when I can get some friend of mind that knows how to take/send pictures, I will post the Brp ones with the slit and the Dorman without the slit/hole.

[MISTERZ06]

My Vulcan brake fluid cap had a slit in it.

Where did you get your doctorate in brake design?

I do not have a Doctorate in Brakeology, and the reason I brought this to all our Spyder friends is that in all my past history of car/motorcycles I vave not seen the diaphram vented. Look at the 1960-70's master cylinders, they all had a sealed system. Do you remember that all the old, single or double master cyclinders on GM cars had that large heavy type spring holding the cover on, that you had to use a screwdriver to pry it off. I am not saying that I know it all, I like the not-vented system, but I will listen/read about why some have slits and try to understand. I believe at this time, that no brake fluid should come out out of the cap.

[MISTERZ06]

They can be hard to see if you don't push on them like I did with the one on the left.....and here's the vent opening on my Spyder's clutch cap. There are two of them, one on each side. I removed the cap and the diaphragm has two small dimples...I imagine those are the vents but a bit too small to make them out.

I must say SPYRYDER, you are knowledgable, and better with the pics than I. I examined the Dormans I used and there were no holes/slits. I have removed that clutch master cylinder cover in the past, and observed the black/dirty brake fluid ( caused from BRP seals deteriorating), but never looked for a vent hole in the diaphragm. That hole in the cover looks to vent air trapped between the cover and diaphragm. Have you looked and is there a vent hloe/slit in that diaphragm?

[MISTERZ06]

I must say SPYRYDER, you are knowledgable, and better with the pics than I. I examined the Dormans I used and there were no holes/slits. I have removed that clutch master cylinder cover in the past, and observed the black/dirty brake fluid ( caused from BRP seals deteriorating), but never looked for a vent hole in the diaphragm. That hole in the cover looks to vent air trapped between the cover and diaphragm. Have you looked and is there a vent hloe/slit in that diaphragm?

Tomorrow I am going to remove the cover on the clutch master cylinder and thoroughy examine the diaphragm for vent holes

[spyryder]

I must say SPYRYDER, you are knowledgable, and better with the pics than I. I examined the Dormans I used and there were no holes/slits. I have removed that clutch master cylinder cover in the past, and observed the black/dirty brake fluid ( caused from BRP seals deteriorating), but never looked for a vent hole in the diaphragm. That hole in the cover looks to vent air trapped between the cover and diaphragm. Have you looked and is there a vent hloe/slit in that diaphragm?

Yes, I removed the cap and the diaphragm has two small dimples...I imagine those are the vents but a bit too small to make them out. The diaphragm wasn't all sucked down either like all of those old GM's always were! I believe you're right about those cars not being vented but they had huge accordion shaped diaphragms.....enough to displace pretty much all of the fluid in those master cylinders.
Oh and my clutch fluid is dirty too....that's the first time I've had the cover off seeing as the cover has a sight glass to check the level.

[spyryder]

Here's another example....the older cars had a simple venting system drilled right into the side of the cap and was easy to see. This one's from a '55 Ford:

[MISTERZ06]

Here's another example....the older cars had a simple venting system drilled right into the side of the cap and was easy to see. This one's from a '55 Ford:

Yes SPYRYDER, I see the vent hole on that 1955 Ford cap, but was there or was there not a rubber diaphrgam under it, and that hole was to let air out from cap and diaphragm?
I just returned from removing the Clutch Master Cylinder Cover on my 2009 RS SM5, and yes it has two identations on the cover where it meets the main body of the master cyclinder. I removed the rubber diaphragm with the sight glass, washed very well with brake clean and dryed with gentle air pressure and I see the two dimples. I examined the diaphragm very carefully trying to see if there were holes in them there dimples- no holes and no other holes anywhere else.
The reason the brake fluid is so dirty and blackish in color, in that clutch master cylinder is due to the brake fluid disolving the BRP o-rings, which are black. Eventually you have to replace them o-rings and bled the system with new/clean brake fluid, because you will not be able to disengage the clutch. Why did BRP use o-rings that do not like brake fluid? I found the o-rings in question in th 2009 RS SM5 parts section of BRP, Section-05- Diaphragm Cover #10-part#420431441, #11-part#420431301 and #13-part#42063189. Also when servicing these o-rings check the PISTON they go on for wear/scuffing, #9-part#420656122.
I have all these o-rings and one day I will relace them, flush and bleed with new brake fluid. My friends 2011 RT SM5 (21,000 miles) is getting harder to disengage the clutch, and i will first do the o-ring replacement and if that does not help, I will be looking into clutch plate wear.

[MISTERZ06]

Yes SPYRYDER, I see the vent hole on that 1955 Ford cap, but was there or was there not a rubber diaphrgam under it, and that hole was to let air out from cap and diaphragm?
I just returned from removing the Clutch Master Cylinder Cover on my 2009 RS SM5, and yes it has two identations on the cover where it meets the main body of the master cyclinder. I removed the rubber diaphragm with the sight glass, washed very well with brake clean and dryed with gentle air pressure and I see the two dimples. I examined the diaphragm very carefully trying to see if there were holes in them there dimples- no holes and no other holes anywhere else.
The reason the brake fluid is so dirty and blackish in color, in that clutch master cylinder is due to the brake fluid disolving the BRP o-rings, which are black. Eventually you have to replace them o-rings and bled the system with new/clean brake fluid, because you will not be able to disengage the clutch. Why did BRP use o-rings that do not like brake fluid? I found the o-rings in question in th 2009 RS SM5 parts section of BRP, Section-05- Diaphragm Cover #10-part#420431441, #11-part#420431301 and #13-part#42063189. Also when servicing these o-rings check the PISTON they go on for wear/scuffing, #9-part#420656122.

And, like SPYRYDER, I love and happy with my two 2009 RS SM5 Spyders, one has 16,000 miles and the other has 12,000 miles. My best friend is on his second Spyder 1st-2008 RS SM5 11,000 miles and his current one is a 2011 RT SM5 with 21,000 miles. I try and do as much service to all three, the RS's are a dream to work on, that RT is a bear to work on, and is constantly in and out of the dealers with bull**** problems

[spyryder]

And, like SPYRYDER, I love and happy with my two 2009 RS SM5 Spyders, one has 16,000 miles and the other has 12,000 miles. My best friend is on his second Spyder 1st-2008 RS SM5 11,000 miles and his current one is a 2011 RT SM5 with 21,000 miles. I try and do as much service to all three, the RS's are a dream to work on, that RT is a bear to work on, and is constantly in and out of the dealers with bull**** problems

I'm pretty happy with mine too. I've got around 11,000 miles on it now. It's had the DPS recall and the ECM was changed when one cylinder quit firing. I haven't done anything else other than oil changes and a new battery last year.

[MISTERZ06]

I'm pretty happy with mine too. I've got around 11,000 miles on it now. It's had the DPS recall and the ECM was changed when one cylinder quit firing. I haven't done anything else other than oil changes and a new battery last year.

So what do you think? am I wrong with my old-school theories that use to work? Or am I all wet from Brake Fluid. Just looking now for theories.
Thanks Tom n Carol, SI,NY

[PMK]

FWIW, I have not inspected our 2014 RTs yet.

It is typical on brake and hydraulic clutch systems to run a sealed system. As mentioned, this prevents contamination from moisture, which is absorbed by brake fluid and lowers the boiling point of the fluid.

The rubber diaphragm should have no venting to ambient air. The metal or plastic rigid cap will have vents above the sealed diaphragm that allows the bellows portion of the diaphragm to expand as the brakes wear and fluid is displaced into the caliper.

Hydraulic clutches are the same.

So, I decide, let's go have a look, 2014 RTs, new in Jan. Removed both caps, pulled both rubber diaphragms from each cap. Each cap has a vent slot. Each rubber diaphragm has a V slit and a short straight slit. So since this defies anything typically seen before, I decide to read the owners manual. The V slit is supposed to be there, my best guess is that it will vent fluid if the brakes overheat, or maybe if the fluid is overheated by the known heat concerns from the engine and exhaust. If the fluid has nowhere to vent, the brakes will be applied and create other issues.

Outside of that, it makes no sense, is not done to any other vehicle I have ever worked on, and honestly can only recommend be aware and bleed the brakes more often in higher humidity or wet areas.

Copied from the owners manual.

All the best with it.
PK

1. Add fluid to MAX level.
NOTICE Brake fluid can damage
painted surfaces or plastic parts.
Wipe up any spills.
2. Reinstall filler cap as follows:
2.1 Check that V slit is in good condition.
2.2 Ensure diaphragm are properly
positioned.

rbg2008-003-002_a
TYPICAL
1. V slit
vmr2008-033-062_a

TYPICAL
1. Correct position
2. Wrong position
3. Close the seat and ensure it is fully

[PMK]

Sorry, the manuals images posted in the original write up, but not in the actual post. If someone has more adobe PDF power, possibly they can add them. The photos are in the owners manual.

PK