1330 OIL REPORT

[PW2013STL]

http://www.amazon.com/Can-Am-Sypder-...+Can+Am+Spyder

Found this on Amazon.

Not for the 1330 motors as this is listed for the 5 speed.

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks! Good thing I didn't buy that one! Where does everyone get theirs for the 1330?

[Highwayman2013]

I think Bajaron is working on a kit for the 1330.

[PW2013STL]

Thanks! Good thing I didn't buy that one! Where does everyone get theirs for the 1330?

I just purchased the filter, 5 o-rings, and two washers from a dealer and the oil from Autozone. If you are staying with BRP oil than eveything from your dealer.

[PW2013STL]

I'm really puzzled; at 8.36 the viscosity has dropped down into the 20W zone, according to: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

To further confuse me, a major lab I've been using, ALS, reports numbers in the 11.6 and below as "caution" and once I got a 10.1 and they flagged it "danger".

The question I've never been able to get answered is how low can the viscosity shear down to and still be viable?

Obviously, the two labs have different views, and BRP says 9300 miles is good. Have to admit, Blackstone's report makes one feel comfortable with whatever oil one is using.

Maybe I'll sent my next test to both labs and see what the results are.

After reading this I finally got around to asking them about it and here is their response.

"Hi, Les. Thanks for the email.

If this is supposed to be a 5W/40 oil, then that does change our report slightly, because the viscosity reading is quite low for a 5W/40. The viscosity wasn't listed on your oil slip, just the brand name, so when the sample read in the 5W/20 range, that's what we logged it in as.

This reading would be low for 5W/40 (the MSDS lists the approximate viscosity for this type of oil at ~14.5 cSt, and your reading was just 8.36 cSt), although since that's the only thing reading out of line, we don't see any obvious cause for the viscosity to read so low. The flashpoint was fine, so fuel dilution doesn't seem to be a concern, and no mechanical problems were found. Some types of oil just tend to naturally shear the oil down, so that might be what's going on here, and that's not a problem as long as wear isn't affected.

All in all, it's still a nice report, just with a slightly lower viscosity than we would have expected. No other problems found. Hope that helps. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!"

Travis Heffelfinger
Blackstone Laboratories
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806

If you do send in yours for testing please let us know what you find. I will now do my next change at 6000 and see how Moble 1 preforms.

[ulflyer]

After reading this I finally got around to asking them about it and here is their response.

"Hi, Les. Thanks for the email.

If this is supposed to be a 5W/40 oil, then that does change our report slightly, because the viscosity reading is quite low for a 5W/40. The viscosity wasn't listed on your oil slip, just the brand name, so when the sample read in the 5W/20 range, that's what we logged it in as.

This reading would be low for 5W/40 (the MSDS lists the approximate viscosity for this type of oil at ~14.5 cSt, and your reading was just 8.36 cSt), although since that's the only thing reading out of line, we don't see any obvious cause for the viscosity to read so low. The flashpoint was fine, so fuel dilution doesn't seem to be a concern, and no mechanical problems were found. Some types of oil just tend to naturally shear the oil down, so that might be what's going on here, and that's not a problem as long as wear isn't affected.

All in all, it's still a nice report, just with a slightly lower viscosity than we would have expected. No other problems found. Hope that helps. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!"

Travis Heffelfinger
Blackstone Laboratories
416 E. Pettit Ave.
Fort Wayne, IN 46806

If you do send in yours for testing please let us know what you find. I will now do my next change at 6000 and see how Moble 1 preforms.

Thanks for sharing the above report from Blackstone Lab. Glad to know I am not out in left field as far as oil shearing goes. While the Lab says, in effect, that as long as wear is not affected, running an oil that has sheared down that much is ok. The question is, how will you know there has been undue wear, until its already happened? For that reason, I'm likely to continue changing oil at no more than 4000 miles.

I like to dabble with oils and will continue to do lab tests whenever I use a diff oil. Right now I'm still running the
Rotella T Dino with about 2000 mi on it and when it reaches
3000 mi I'll send a sample in. Will let you know the results when I get them and would love to see a test on Mobil1.

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for sharing the above report from Blackstone Lab. Glad to know I am not out in left field as far as oil shearing goes. While the Lab says, in effect, that as long as wear is not affected, running an oil that has sheared down that much is ok. The question is, how will you know there has been undue wear, until its already happened? For that reason, I'm likely to continue changing oil at no more than 4000 miles.

I like to dabble with oils and will continue to do lab tests whenever I use a diff oil. Right now I'm still running the
Rotella T Dino with about 2000 mi on it and when it reaches
3000 mi I'll send a sample in. Will let you know the results when I get them and would love to see a test on Mobil1.

I am interested to see how the Rotella stacks up to the OEM or Mobil1 for that matter.

[ulflyer]

Be very careful what you read Doc, he is running regular oil. The comparison you want to see is one that compares Rotella T6 5-40 full Synthetic vs Mobil Motorcycle oil in 10-40 wright. Any other comparison of similar named oils is a waste. There are many different Rotella oils and Mobil 1 oils.

FWIW, the T-6 meets every requirement stipulated by BRP. It is a rated motorcycle oil, it does have proper viscosity, it is full synthetic.
The Mobil 1 motorcycle oil meets the requirements except the rating is 10-40.

The real lesson that should be learned is that if oil quality is a concern, change it often. Typically, a 5-40 will always rate thinner than a 10-40 during tests of used oil. It starts out with less viscosity, so should end with less viscosity.

PK

I would also like to see a Lab report on the above two oils, especially the T6. Not only is it readily available, but also inexpensive. I've never tried it in a Spyder because some riders of big bore bikes on BITOG found it sheared much more rapidly than 10-40 oils, but it might well be an ideal oil for the 1330; a lab report would go a long ways to determine that.

Many of BITOG riders have, for a long time, been singing the praise for the "T" Dino version, along with 3-4K mile changes which led me to give it a try. I'll soon know how it turns out.

For longer term use, it would be great if we could use 20-50 as it holds up much better than a 10-40. Unfortunately, its not specified by BRP.

For those who use Rotella T6, Shell is offering a $5 rebate up to two gal between now and Oct 31.
http://www.shell.com/rotella/promoti...promotion.html

[Tango]

I know that I read about it in the past concerning "synthetic" oils. They go by types. Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1, and others are a "true synthetic". Hence, man made oil. The Shell T6 may be in a lesser catergory. Which is a "highly refined" dino oil that they can claim is synthetic. Basically, the higher the "TBN", total base number is. The higher the quality of the oil. Most of the best oils are 13 TBN to start. Again, do you own reserch on this. I used to be an Amsoil Dealer and kept up on this stuff. Tom

[Tango]

It didn't take long to find this. Still looking for what "type" it is. Class III or IV?


The typical TBN value for Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE
5W-40 is 10.6.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center

[Tango]

so is it ok to run the motorcycle 10x40 amsoil.

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. "It's not what BRP calls for". Tom

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for the headsup! I should be good for the rest of the season this year, so hopefully we will have more information on what the best oil will be to use by then. With this being a new first year engine, what you guys are doing makes perfect sense. I'm sure BRP tested this engine, but the real testing begins when it gets to us. I hate that sometimes, but with costs the way they are it would be impossible to do really extensive testing or extremely cost prohibitive.

[ulflyer]

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. "It's not what BRP calls for". Tom

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways.

[ulflyer]

It didn't take long to find this. Still looking for what "type" it is. Class III or IV?


The typical TBN value for Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE
5W-40 is 10.6.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.

......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver

[Tango]

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways.

The 11's and the 14's are different engines with different specs. My dealer would have used an alternative oil if I had brought it in. Their suggestion was to get some "Bel Ray" 5-40. If Amsoil had a 5-40 it would have been used. They stock all Amsoil oils. Tom

[sddinnh]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

[Tango]

......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver

Mike 10.6 TBN is good. Using a 12 or 13 would be better. Shell Rotella is a Type III oil. It is not a true synthetic, but a highly refined dino oil. I believe the term used is "hydra fracked". What I don't care for is the wide spread in weight. With a 5-40 type III, the additive package volume wise is large. My two cars call for 0-20 oil. Further more. To be called a semi synthetic oil all they need to do is add 10% synthetic to it. The max is 30%. The oil game is big money. Using the wrong weight while under warranty gives them an easy out! Tom

[ulflyer]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. I suspect the majority of folks on this forum do just that. There have been
some really high milers...forget the numbers but up near 100K or perhaps more....with BRP dealer installed oil.

I've never run any BRP oil and had it tested so I have no definite knowledge of how it stacks up against other brands and the bottom line is, how the heck do any of us know what is "better"??? Its just our beliefs and gut feelings that make us want to use something else that we "think" might be better! Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

[PW2013STL]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Not a stupid question at all.

The purpose of my post was to show that the BRP oil and their recommended change at 9300 miles is ok based on the test results. Now that I know that the cSt viscosity is low (20w oil level tested at 6000 miles) I am a little concerned about it going to a full 9300 miles, but it still tests out fine.

I personally like Mobil 1, but I am not trying to get others to switch, just stating what I am doing. I will also have a test run at 6000 miles on it and see how it compares. I will also post that - good or bad.

[sddinnh]

Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

Oh I enjoy a good oil discussion as well. but since my disability kicked in and I can't get down there to change it, I was just interested if it was something I should try to talk my dealer into. I guess in one sense, I'm a little concerned also and have been changing oil between 3-4000. It's more money, but I'd rather err on the safe side.

[Tango]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Steve in no way is this a stupid question! It's a great question IMO. And is exactly what I do myself. I have no problem letting the dealer do all the maintenance. I will probably never do 9300 miles in one year. So getting the oil changed once a year by the dealer suits me just fine. In the old days I did ALL my oil changes, bike, cars, trucks. Butt, since having my spine fused in two spots, and a belly that makes me look 9 months pregnant. Those days are over. I love talking about oil. And I only stress using the correct oil for your situation. That is "motorcycle oil" in your motorcycle. Tom

[billybovine]

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Why not accomplish a small reality check. Take samples of new unused oil and have them tested as a baseline. This would include the BRP mystery oils, both synthetic and blended.

Post the results of each oil as new.

Then if various machines are run with these oils, the results could be posted at a later date.

The Rotella T6 meets the text book definition in the owners manual for the 1330.

5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.

So with the knowledge pool gathered here...what in the world is a 5w40 semi-synthetic (minimum), and what is the maximum. Does this mean 20w50 is above the minimum? Is the minimum that it must be at least semi synthetic.

Also, is it really that important if the oil is a III or IV. If it meets the specs called for by engineering, then anything better is more than needed.

All the best with it.

PK

..............I AGREE WITH YOU 110 %...............​What's your opinion about tom's remark's in post # 71 ( not criticizing Him ) just trying to learn ....Mikeguyver

---

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...ella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.

......Billy ...I don't think the formula was the same ......................Mikeguyver