Bearing Pieces in oil

[Caito]

Very cool to hear! Sometimes it just takes a little patience and persistence. Nice work for sure!

Did you separate the waterpump from the case and remove the shaft? This is a weak area on these motors.
If you removed the shaft from the case/seal during disassembly, then replace it. If you left it all intact during disassembly then just check it out real good for ANY weeping of oil or antifreeze from the weep hole.
If you see anything then replace it. It's a pretty inexpensive part and a difficult one to get to.....Easy with the motor on the bench....

Again, nice work!!

I did took it out because it seems a little sluggish when I try to turn it. I will be replacing it. Thanks

[Caito]

Base on BRP service manual. It will requires 3 different tools to install the seals and the shaft. # 420877650 installer handle # 529035757 oil seal pusher and #529035765 Rotary seal installer. Do I really need those tools or can I push the seal in with a socket or a wooden rod? Anyone have any suggestions?

[Caito]

P7280311.jpgP7280311.jpg

This is the hex bolt that kept the case together. Once that is out the case slide out with a few taps with the dead blow hammer.

[DrewNJ]

It's all good PMK. We are all here trying to help.

If your new waterpump shaft and seals comes in separate pieces and you have to install the shaft through the seal pay REALLY close attention to the hole in the shaft. It will slice the seal very easily on assembly. Clean up the edge of the hole.
Some of the newer ones we have seen come as an assembly with the shaft already through the seal. You should be fine with that one.
Keep it rolling!

[billrob71]

Congrats on the find, was better to take it all apart just to check and make sure none of the parts got inside better to be sure on the first check instead of having to take it apart a second time.

[Caito]

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I am at the half way mark. Sent in my parts order this afternoon. Attach a few pictures of the crankcase, inside look of the gear box, cranks and gear shafts.

[Caito]

Any other compound I can use beside BRP suggesting:

Dow Corning 111
Drei Bond Sealing Compound
Petamo grease GHY 133n

I know Loctite 243 and 648. I am not sure what the number meant. It must be blue and red.. Anyone..

[DrewNJ]

Personally, I'd feel comfortable using 3 Bond 1211 in place of Drei Bond since Drei bond may be a dealer only find. Yamabond would work good too if you have any laying around. Some also substitute "the right stuff" but I'm not into that one all that much.
The others should be sourced fairly easily through mcmaster.com or even amazon.
648 is overkill IMHO but really good stuff. Yes, basically blue and red with a bit of a twist for each....

[DrewNJ]

Petamo grease is basically a marine grade wheel bearing grease with moly. I've heard it stands for: PETroleum And MOly.

[Caito]

Petamo grease is basically a marine grade wheel bearing grease with moly. I've heard it stands for: PETroleum And MOly.

I will going hunting for some loctite, lube, grease and whatever else I need to do the job tomorrow. I was thinking a high temp bearing grease might do the trick instead of the Petamo grease. I really don't understand the point of it all. Once I filled the engine with regular engine oil, it shouldn't matter with that little bit of grease on the crank. Like I said I am really not that good at this. I am going to check with some local shop here and see what they use to put their engine together. Thanks again.

[PMK]

243 Loctite should be the grade for use in oil. Ensure the threads are clean before using. I typically clean them with CRC Halogenated (Red Can) brake cleaner.

Where is the application of 648? I just pulled it up and it is Green cylindrical retaining compound. This one could be important if they are making a clearance 0/0 fit after torquing. Possibly a gear on a shaft or to prevent a bearing from spinning in the cases. Per Loctite it is a higher temp rated.

As Drew mentioned, Yamabond and 3 Bond work well to seal case seams if the BRP stuff is not available.

Regarding moly lubes, not sure where the application is. It may be a break in lube for initial running in.

All the best with it.

PK

[KX5062]

I too agree 3 bond and Yamabond are good stuff, either or.

On the water pump. Sockets, washers and threaded rod useally do the the trick, but I can't say for sure in this case. The Aprilia motors, which these are, were famous for weepy water pumps, so it's a good thing to R&R it.

How'd all those bearings in the cases look? Those sometimes get overlooked and forgotten about.

[Caito]

243 Loctite should be the grade for use in oil. Ensure the threads are clean before using. I typically clean them with CRC Halogenated (Red Can) brake cleaner.

Where is the application of 648? I just pulled it up and it is Green cylindrical retaining compound. This one could be important if they are making a clearance 0/0 fit after torquing. Possibly a gear on a shaft or to prevent a bearing from spinning in the cases. Per Loctite it is a higher temp rated.

As Drew mentioned, Yamabond and 3 Bond work well to seal case seams if the BRP stuff is not available.

Regarding moly lubes, not sure where the application is. It may be a break in lube for initial running in.

All the best with it.

PK

They are using it on the flywheel area. I am thinking of using Loctite 271 Red high strength or Permatex high temp red instead of Loctite 648. Just can't find it anywhere near me.

Thanks
Permatex® High Temperature Threadlocker RED

[Caito]

I too agree 3 bond and Yamabond are good stuff, either or.

On the water pump. Sockets, washers and threaded rod useally do the the trick, but I can't say for sure in this case. The Aprilia motors, which these are, were famous for weepy water pumps, so it's a good thing to R&R it.

How'd all those bearings in the cases look? Those sometimes get overlooked and forgotten about.

All the bearings looks A1. Smooth as silk. I also check all of the needle bearings in the gear box and they are all as good as new. I am going to look for 3 bond or yamabond tommorow and I am almost done gathering what I needed. Thanks

[finless]

They are using it on the flywheel area. I am thinking of using Loctite 271 Red high strength or Permatex high temp red instead of Loctite 648. Just can't find it anywhere near me.

Thanks
Permatex® High Temperature Threadlocker RED

I would not substitute 648 for red. Green Loctite is a wicking style Loctite made for retaining bearings in cases or on shafts. Red won’t do that and was not designed to do that. There is a reason for green vs red.

Bob

[Caito]

I would not substitute 648 for red. Green Loctite is a wicking style Loctite made for retaining bearings in cases or on shafts. Red won’t do that and was not designed to do that. There is a reason for green vs red.

Bob

In these case they are using it in the Magneto/flywheel area. Its being apply on Flywheel threads and the Socket Head Screw M16x30 and bolted onto the crankshaft. I think I will be pretty safe using red because it is thread on the shaft. However I think I seen Loctite 620 which is similar to 648. I think I will listen to you advice and go with that. Thanks

[Caito]

Purchased my Loctite at you friendly local Nappa Store. Loctite 243 and Loctite 620. I ordered the Dow Corning 111 5.3 oz through ebay for $23.95 shipping included instead of around $60 or more with shipping on BRP sites. I will be buying 3 bond or Yamabond tomorrow depends on which one I come across first. After talking to a local shop mechanic where I purchased my ATV. He recommended regular assembly lube for around $10.00 compared to Petamo grease GHY 133n @BRP with shipping be close to $100 CDN. (He just rebuilt his own motor on his ATV with the same stuff and done lots of motors before that.) I guess if it is good for his ride, it will be good for my Spyder.

So right now just waiting. Any tips & tricks you like to share please send it this way. Thanks

[DrewNJ]

Your doing good and we'll on your way!

[DrewNJ]

3 Bond 1211 should be readily available at just about any cycle or boat shop.
Yamabond will be at any yami dealer.

[Caito]

Okay .. I carefully going through the service manual and tried my best to find where BRP used the Drei Bond Sealing Compound The only place that I have to use it is where the wire coming out of the Magneto cover and is on top. It looks more like they are trying to keep the rain water going inside the cover then anything else. I have some high temp silicon sealant left from my last job. I think I might just try that and see how it works out. Any Objection to my plan.

[Caito]

If not properly sealed the magneto wires will bleed engine oil.
I couldn't believe it, but the magneto is bathed in an oil mist.

So whatever you use to seal the wires, make sure it is hot oil proof.

K, I got some High Temp silicon liquid gasket. I am going to try them first. Thanks

No news today.. Just waiting for parts.

[Caito]

K.. it been a week or so. All my parts finally arrived today. It took me 3 days to get anything from the U.S. but took over a week for me get parts from a province next to me and I had to pay more. I guess free trade does work.

I replaced the water pump seal, shaft and oil seal behind the mechanical seal(I think that's what they call them). It took me most of a day and some choiced words in between. Based on the service manual. I am supposed to be able to use a punch to punch the seals and the shaft from the 2 access holes inside the case. Well guess again. It took me a good part of a day to get it done. I had to use a small cutting tools to cut the sealing lips on the mechanical seal then use a very small flat head screw driver to lift the lips up. I continue this process until I get enough of a grip to set a vice grip on it. After that is just how strong your will and your friend are . Took two of us together to yank it out but at last it was done. Attach some pics of what is left of it.. I wished I had took more pictures of how I took it out just in case some of you might had to do the same but I wasn't really thinking that far ahead at that point.

The process of putting my bike back together has begin.. I am taking my time and if anyone know of any tips and tricks or I must know please send it this way. I can use all the help I can get.

[bruiser]

I know this is late but, 648 is used on bearings to hold them in the case/housing. We used it extensively on shaft bearings in our brush drive gear boxes. If yo don't use some type of "locking bond" there is a very good chance the bearing outer race will spin in the housing. Not a good scenario. It's also used on most "press fit" items like gears and seals. Permatex sleeve retainer is the same stuff. If you can find it, STP oil treatment works as a great assembly lube. I used it for years rebuilding engines. Never had a problem.

[JerryB]

Hi bruiser,

Re: STP oil treatment works as a great assembly lube. I used it for years rebuilding engines. Never had a problem.

+1 on that. Though, it has been years since I've rebuilt an engine.

Jerry Baumchen

[jtoro1]

I am watching your post closely for the future, you are doing pretty good I will be saving the post so when it is my turn on my spyder good luck