Just waiting for the tool from BRP to take the flywheel or Magneto off. So far there are no damages at all as far as I can see. There seem to be some play on the Front Sprocket shaft. I am not sure if that is the way suppose to be. Does anyone know if it should or not?? I can see my trans from the crankcase opening. What I can see looked good. I can't wait to get in there and put my Spyder back on the road. It's been too long since I ride.
Part number for the tool 529036097 (Magneto Puller) and the Crank locking bolt for locking the Crankshaft 529036098. The locking bolt would be useful anytime you need to do anything to the timing chain.Service manual recommended you find TDC and install locking bolt before you do anything to the timing chain and something else too. ( I can't quite remember) I am sure the lock bolt will come in handy when I put motor back together again.
So far I had proceeded without problem with my minimal set of mechanical skills. I am sure most of us have the will to do this, CAN. Just do a lot of reading and ask a lot of questions. Prepare to purchase the right tools for the job. I keep a step by step journal as I goes about my business. I took a lots of before and after pictures everytime I took a part off. Just pay a lot of attention to details and I also try to avoid power tools as much as I can. I have a 2 foot and a 4.5 ft cheater bar handy when those locktite get in the way. If the bolt don't move just STOP and think about your next step. There might be a better way then force your way through which might end up damaging something. You are then into a bigger job or perhaps more expensive.
If anyone have any good tips or I must have to put the motor back together. Please jump in and shares your knowledge. General tips like putting the gasket back on, Parts need to be locktite, or anything that might help make my engine runs again.
My real work always seems to get in the way of fixing my bike but attached is a few pics on how far I get.
Don't rely on the crank locking bolt to hold the crank in place when doing heavy work on the engine. On most motorcycle engines, they index into a small witness groove on the crank and are made of hardened steel. Heavy applications of force can damage the crank or the soft aluminum case. That bolt is normally designed only to hold the cams in place when doing valve adjustments and not for disassembly.
Take a penny (soft metal) and place it into the gears behind the clutch basket. The gears are heat tempered steel and the penny is very soft, so it has the effect of jamming the gears up without damaging the teeth, and thereby locking the crank. Loosen the clutch basket and stator bolts with an impact wrench, either air or electric. Those are usually torqued on and sometime loctited and can require a great deal of force to loosen them up. The rapid movement of the impact wrench will break it loose without drama or damage. You can pick up a 1/2" electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight for $20 or so and it works well.
If the clutch hub retaining nut or stator bolt does not come loose easily, then use a propane torch to heat it up. Not too hot, just around 200-300*F. The easiest way to tell is to spit on it. If it immediately sizzles, then you're about right.
When separating the case halves, DO NOT pry them apart. They usually have some kind of sealant that acts like glue. Take a soft mallet, like plastic, not rubber, or a dead-blow hammer, and tap the case halves vigorously. Again, you're looking to shock the sealant loose.
Don't rely on the crank locking bolt to hold the crank in place when doing heavy work on the engine. On most motorcycle engines, they index into a small witness groove on the crank and are made of hardened steel. Heavy applications of force can damage the crank or the soft aluminum case. That bolt is normally designed only to hold the cams in place when doing valve adjustments and not for disassembly.
Take a penny (soft metal) and place it into the gears behind the clutch basket. The gears are heat tempered steel and the penny is very soft, so it has the effect of jamming the gears up without damaging the teeth, and thereby locking the crank. Loosen the clutch basket and stator bolts with an impact wrench, either air or electric. Those are usually torqued on and sometime loctited and can require a great deal of force to loosen them up. The rapid movement of the impact wrench will break it loose without drama or damage. You can pick up a 1/2" electric impact wrench from Harbor Freight for $20 or so and it works well.
If the clutch hub retaining nut or stator bolt does not come loose easily, then use a propane torch to heat it up. Not too hot, just around 200-300*F. The easiest way to tell is to spit on it. If it immediately sizzles, then you're about right.
When separating the case halves, DO NOT pry them apart. They usually have some kind of sealant that acts like glue. Take a soft mallet, like plastic, not rubber, or a dead-blow hammer, and tap the case halves vigorously. Again, you're looking to shock the sealant loose.
HTH
Just got the Magneto wheel off this morning. Thank you for your advice. I jammed some soft cloth inside the case and wrap it around the arms then I impacted it. It came off after my second try and you are right. It got plenty of loctite on it.
I do have a question and hoping you or someone can answer this for me. Once I took the Magneto off and the rest of the gears on this side off. It does not seems to have anything else preventing the case to be split and come off. Why is it necessary to take the clutch off to pull the case. Is it possible to leave the clutch side together and pull the case on the magneto side? Any advice or help welcome. Jokes too ..
Looked at my service manual it does not say what you asking but my feeling is if you can take the big gear off on the drive pulley side and the other gears offyou might be able to spit the 2 sides, my manual is not very good it is the techspark studio CD , good luck and keep us posted I am every interested in the out come
You might be able to do it that way. I've never done a Spyder or Aprilia engine, so I can't specifically. You can try, and if it's a no-go, you didn't have anything other than time and energy to lose. However, sometime there are hidden case bolts underneath clutch hubs.
If I were in your place and having the tools and time I would
do a total tare down inc. removal of the pistons and check everything
If you are that far into it, it may be fun to enlarge the bore and up the power
while it out
I see you did not use pennies to jam the gears. Probably don't have any left since they took them out of circulation. Interesting project to watch unfold. If I have anything to contribute I will but it looks like mostly moral support. So good luck.
I see you did not use pennies to jam the gears. Probably don't have any left since they took them out of circulation. Interesting project to watch unfold. If I have anything to contribute I will but it looks like mostly moral support. So good luck.
The pennies might come out of the piggy bank soon. I was trying to take a gear off but it just kept on spinning. I had to stop because of my real work get in the way.
Crankcase started to split but then something hidden was holding it. I am going to follow the service manual from here on. The clutch will be coming off , the rest of the timing chain and gear are coming off, shifter shaft and the rest of the gears from the Magneto side. Day off work tomorrow and I will be working on the engine. I am hoping to have the crankcase split and see what parts I need by tomorrow.
Do you happen to have a cam stand? If so, While you have it apart would you mind putting a caliper/dial on the cams and measuring the exhaust and intake lobes? And maybe measuring the valves??
I must take my hat off to you Caito! You, Sir, have bearings of Steel!
I'm also a bit envious as well... I haven't rebuilt a engine since the mid 80's when I was rebuilding my old 70 Camero. Those were good times and good memories, at least in retrospect.
I'm learning a lot from you even though my hands are still clean and my knuckles aren't busted open...
Thanks so much for including us in your endeavor!
~'12 RT Limited, Pearl White~ BajaRon Anti-sway Bar Squared Away Laser Alignment Custom Dynamics HMT Brake Light, Front Fender Tips & Kit, Front Mud Flap LEDs, Amber & Red Brightsides, Tri-color Magicflex Channelz Lidlox Grip Tip Helmet Locks TricLED Mirror Signals, RGB Multi-color Halo Underground Effects Kit, LED Headlights Palmer Signs Custom "Captain America" frunk graphics Twisted Chrome Pinstripes Overland Australian Sheepskin Seat Cover
Do you happen to have a cam stand? If so, While you have it apart would you mind putting a caliper/dial on the cams and measuring the exhaust and intake lobes? And maybe measuring the valves??
Sorry DrewNJ. I don't have a cam stand. I am really not that good with this mechanic thing. I have everthing apart but I really have no clue what you are asking me to do. If you can explain it a bit more in details then maybe I can give it a go.
I must take my hat off to you Caito! You, Sir, have bearings of Steel!
I'm also a bit envious as well... I haven't rebuilt a engine since the mid 80's when I was rebuilding my old 70 Camero. Those were good times and good memories, at least in retrospect.
I'm learning a lot from you even though my hands are still clean and my knuckles aren't busted open...
Thanks so much for including us in your endeavor!
Thanks. I am also learning a great deal as I moved along and actually enjoying it too. I am glad that you are enjoying this thread and I will continue to post my progress until my bike is back on the road again. Thank you for the encouragement.
Sorry DrewNJ. I don't have a cam stand. I am really not that good with this mechanic thing. I have everthing apart but I really have no clue what you are asking me to do. If you can explain it a bit more in details then maybe I can give it a go.
Don't sweat it man. Just continue on, so far your doing good.
Keep us posted on what you find.
Best advice I can give you is don't cheap out when putting it back together when it comes to buying gaskets....
[QUOTE=DrewNJ;848869]Don't sweat it man. Just continue on, so far your doing good.
Keep us posted on what you find.
Best advice I can give you is don't cheap out when putting it back together when it comes to buying gaskets....[/QUOTE
I am listening.. I will be getting all new gasket and whatever else I am suppose to use new. Thanks
I must take my hat off to you Caito! You, Sir, have bearings of Steel!
I'm also a bit envious as well... I haven't rebuilt a engine since the mid 80's when I was rebuilding my old 70 Camero. Those were good times and good memories, at least in retrospect.
I'm learning a lot from you even though my hands are still clean and my knuckles aren't busted open...
Thanks so much for including us in your endeavor!
....and we're gonna ride, we're gonna ride.....
ride like the one-eyed Jack of Diamonds, with
the devil close behind,.....we're gonna ride....
The good news is I did it and the great news is there is no damages at all in the trans or inside the gearbox area.
I splitted the crankcase this morning and anxious to find the trouble bearing in the gear box. I was disappointed to find that all the bearings and
needle bearings inside the gearbox and the crankcase were working and looking perfect. I was kind of wondering where the heck did those bearing
parts came from. After a session of grumble and a cold one. I get back into studying the diagrams and bingo. Its in the clutch. There is a needle bearing
in the SE5 clutch.
420632700
Needle Bearing
$13.99 CAD
The bearing cage and part of the circlip is the only thing left . I am sure some of you would have spotted that right away. I am still glad that I did the tear down and now I know my ride is good and solid. A peace of mind when I go for my next long ride. I will be ordering some parts and putting my ride back together. Its way past due for that long ride ...
I will be posting some pics of the engine tear down and the trouble spot tomorrow. Maybe someone down the road will find this post useful.
Very cool to hear! Sometimes it just takes a little patience and persistence. Nice work for sure!
Did you separate the waterpump from the case and remove the shaft? This is a weak area on these motors.
If you removed the shaft from the case/seal during disassembly, then replace it. If you left it all intact during disassembly then just check it out real good for ANY weeping of oil or antifreeze from the weep hole.
If you see anything then replace it. It's a pretty inexpensive part and a difficult one to get to.....Easy with the motor on the bench....
Not to change the subject, next expense if you don't have one already. A good quality torque wrench. Not Harbor Freight but a quality item in the proper range.
Also, ensure all the threads are super clean before Loctite. I normally spray with CRC halogenated brake cleaner in the red can. Typical for when I rebuild shocks, forks and motors.
I know you don't want to break the bank, but before reassembly, research the original bearing you suspected. It may be a good time to go the extra step and replace it also. There is a lot of constant tension on that bearing, along with driveline vibration.
I would also do the penny trick on reassembly, however make sure both case halves are installed to prevent angle loading the gearbox input shaft.
Myself, I would also replace the water pump seal or whatever it takes to prevent a leak. Don't scratch the shaft, and polishing may be acceptable prior to the new seal. A new shaft would be best, but not sure about cost.
All the best with it and good, rewarding job when complete.
FWIW I have had my 1981 KTM495 engine apart for the last 12 years. I am about ready to prep and reassemble it, with luck by Christmas. Sitting in boxes, some items lashed together, a printed oem parts book and manual. The previous owner had a shift fork break, which in turn logged into the primary drives gears on the crank and clutch breaking them. Being kind of rare and old, parts are difficult to find and expensive whether new or used.
I a sure you will have good results and a smile except for the costs.
I could not find any mention of the year of Spyder you have. If it is a 2011 (I think) or older the SE5 clutch can be updated with the newer clutch kit with an extra friction plate and a longer oil nozzle. The oil nozzle can be upgraded at any time but since it is apart you may consider a very expensive "You May as Well" for the clutch.
If your Spyder is one of the ones that blows a lot of oil into the air box. The fix is easy while the engine it is still on the bench. If so let me know and I will explain how to do it.
Thanks for the advice. For the extra $60 to replace the shaft and the seals. I am doing it and hopefully it will be the last time I ever see it.
To clarify, I was not stealing Drews thunder about the waterpump seal, just mentioning based on experience with other machines. Likely best to replace as you are doing.
I could not find any mention of the year of Spyder you have. If it is a 2011 (I think) or older the SE5 clutch can be updated with the newer clutch kit with an extra friction plate and a longer oil nozzle. The oil nozzle can be upgraded at any time but since it is apart you may consider a very expensive "You May as Well" for the clutch.
If your Spyder is one of the ones that blows a lot of oil into the air box. The fix is easy while the engine it is still on the bench. If so let me know and I will explain how to do it.
Is a 2009 GS SE5. The filter seems to be clean when I took it off. I purchased the bike used therefore I really have no knowledge of how the last owner took care of the bike. I think right now I will just try to put the bike back on the road first and see what kind of job I did. If it give me problems again then I will go from there. Thank you for your suggestions.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by Caito
If you can explain it a bit more in details then maybe I can give it a go.
