Going to a car tire

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Why is that? On my GL1800, I run a michelin Primacy Alpin run flat winter tire on the back, and a Bridgestone G709 on the front and feel it is one of the best set ups for traction and safety. There are many that run differeent brands, and even types of tires from front to rear with no issues depending on what they are looking for.

I am just going to say this.....what you are running is dangerous, i would never run it for myself, i would never let a customer run that mix on a car
nor would i allow my guys to install it. I play it cautious. if you want to do that set up it is not illegal for you to do it but it actually is for a tire shop
or m/c shop to install that on the vehicle, we are supposed to know better & we would be liable.
It is your bike & you can do what you want, if you crash it really won't affect or bother me too much. It would be nice if I was wrong but as my
employees know when it comes to tires & wheels i am very rarely ever wrong!! My expertise is on car wheels & tires but i don't expect there to be
much difference on handling characteristics with m/c or spyders.
al

[oldgoat]

Why is that? On my GL1800, I run a michelin Primacy Alpin run flat winter tire on the back, and a Bridgestone G709 on the front and feel it is one of the best set ups for traction and safety. There are many that run differeent brands, and even types of tires from front to rear with no issues depending on what they are looking for.

I was under the impression that you needed to put the same manufacturer's tire on the front & rear of a motorcycle "and" the same front & rear specific model of that tire to ensure the same adhesion to the road in all conditions. Failing to do that could easily result in handling problems & maybe a fall off the bike.

Caveat:-I'm no expert here, it's just what I've read in magazines over the years.

[Bob Denman]

We've all read stuff like that...
I tend to take most of it, "with a grain of salt."
On my GoldWing; I ran Dunlops up front, and Contis out back... the only thing that it ever did, was make me grin!
I suppose that you could get into a situation where two vastly different tire profiles; might make the handling a bit... wonky!

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I was under the impression that you needed to put the same manufacturer's tire on the front & rear of a motorcycle "and" the same front & rear specific model of that tire to ensure the same adhesion to the road in all conditions. Failing to do that could easily result in handling problems & maybe a fall off the bike.

Caveat:-I'm no expert here, it's just what I've read in magazines over the years.

Yes, you should always put tires with the same tread design & specs on all points of a car & bike, I personally will match front & rear with same
brand & series tires. As for changing brands and such use the same specs ie. load rating, speed rating or you compromise the full handling characteristics of the vehicles design. Meaning the bike comes with an 'H' speed rating so the minimum you want is the h but you can put a v, w, z or y on since they exceed the h & it is recommended all tires have the same speed rating. as for the load index any car tire you would find would handle the weight of the bike but since the load index of a car would be much greater then our spyders i would expect the tires would not feel the same on cornering and won't have the same flex but would probably give much better mileage & be cheaper.
al
I am still looking for riders on long island!!

[tplayer49]

I ran only OEM, Kendas, on my 2010 RT. Satisfied with the life of those tires.
Then I purchased the 2014 RTS. Why did I replace my rear Kenda with a car tire? 3800 miles at wear bars and I do NOT..spin out or in anyway over use. As an FYI..trailer tires on '14 (purchased same time as RTS) 622 (also Kendas) gone at 3000 miles. Front Kendas on '14...are cupping...IMHO I'm thinking that BRP has either asked Kenda to create a formula for the tires that is not holding up OR BRP got a "bad" batch .. don't know, but not acceptable to me. I am at Owner's Event and I will be taking all my data with me to meet with BRP directly. I have the best dealer in the world, Len of Pitbull Powersports and he is "taking me" to the BRP person. So I will let SL's know what my results are. I have already replaced the rear tire...certainly not safe to drive it, but I have everything I need to "discuss" situation.

Hi,

Okay so the short answer is.... better wear on the tires. I think it is awesome how you gathered the facts and are pursuing the matter. I have learned that there are not many people in this world.... like you... who care about others... enough to provide feedback. Feedback changes things and makes life better... and in this case safer. I try to do the same whenever I can. Thanks you so much.

Please let me know what you find out.

Joe

[Bob Denman]

I ran only OEM, Kendas, on my 2010 RT. Satisfied with the life of those tires.
Then I purchased the 2014 RTS. Why did I replace my rear Kenda with a car tire? 3800 miles at wear bars and I do NOT..spin out or in anyway over use. As an FYI..trailer tires on '14 (purchased same time as RTS) 622 (also Kendas) gone at 3000 miles. Front Kendas on '14...are cupping...IMHO I'm thinking that BRP has either asked Kenda to create a formula for the tires that is not holding up OR BRP got a "bad" batch .. don't know, but not acceptable to me. I am at Owner's Event and I will be taking all my data with me to meet with BRP directly. I have the best dealer in the world, Len of Pitbull Powersports and he is "taking me" to the BRP person. So I will let SL's know what my results are. I have already replaced the rear tire...certainly not safe to drive it, but I have everything I need to "discuss" situation.

Good luck, and we're waiting to hear how they respond...

(I had heard it mentioned elsewhere, that BRP got some "bad" batches of Kendas... )

[BikerDoc]

Kuhmo ast 225/50 R15 is a good choice...12000mi on mine and showing no real sign of wear...

freebob...

I got over 30000 miles on my last one, 8000 already on my new one after my kenda crapped out in 8000
miles on my 2014

[Marker]

Following this thread with great interest. 7200km(4500miles) and I'm down to the wear bars. That's just not acceptable.

I would complain to your dealer.
My 2010 can -am RT S had 23,000km on it before I got the OEM rear tire changed and it was just down to the wear bars. I uesed another OEM rear tire
the front tires still have lots of tread left.

[Nito]

Out of curiosity, if anyone gets the opportunity, could they weigh the stock tyre vs a car tyre? particularly the front ones. If bike is 2 ply and car 4 ply could the reason be to reduce unsprung weight and to allow more flex to alleviate strain off the steering components? (At the expense of longevity).

cheers
nito

[billrob71]

I kinda like the tread pattern front and rear of the Kenda tires and the front tires I'm gonna keep till there worn , how ever the rear tire is having a very short life on the rear of my bike I really can't fault the tire to much I'm hard on it , I do wanna try the Kumho tire just to see if it will last any more and if it doesn't it doesn't. I like riding the bike the way I do and have fun doing it. I did notice that the rear tire size is getting harder to find and the 15 inch front tires don't have a lot of choices either.

[jcthorne]

Rear...


Front...

How do these Yokohama 205 55R15 compare in real world width to the oem Kenda? I know the Yoko S drive tires run much wider than the size numbers suggest. Any chance you have the kenda to shoot a side by side comparison shot?

I also see nothing in a size close to the 15 inch fronts. Would really like to run GOOD tires such as these.

[WackyDan]

I ran the Kumho.

Does it wear better? Not by much. I got only 1000 more miles out of it as compared to the Kenda... But I ride pretty hard. Others have seen a mileage bump out of the Kumho. It does wear evenly across the tread though.

That said, and I think this is important. The Kumho was pretty crappy in the rain once you got a little wear on it. It was also greasy on wet roads. For running around and general touring it was fine, but you had to be careful in the rain.

I'm now running the Toyo Proxes 4. Has been the best tire in all conditions. It is very sticky - far better than the kenda and Kumho on dry roads and I have yet to float it in any standing water... and I ran at speed in that nasty storm at the owners event last year in Maggie valley. Only problem is the Proxes 4 is discontinued. I love it so much I bought three more as I could find them. There are still some places that have them... They are more than the Kumho... I think I paid $120 delivered. If you can find one, buy it. There are plenty of us running the Toyo now and we love them.

Next set of fronts is going to be Bridgestone Potenza RE-92's ... Firefly is running those and they are awesome in the rain. They don't look aggressive, but at the end of the day who cares? I want a tire that performs.

[KX5062]

Out of curiosity, if anyone gets the opportunity, could they weigh the stock tyre vs a car tyre? particularly the front ones. If bike is 2 ply and car 4 ply could the reason be to reduce unsprung weight and to allow more flex to alleviate strain off the steering components? (At the expense of longevity).

cheers
nito

I did not weigh them on a scale, but I did do a side by side comparison when mounting the new car tires. It was obvious the car tires were heavier. On my old 08' GS I switched the fronts to the Altimax tires and the difference was only slight. It would have taken a scale to detect the difference. On the rear I switched from the Kenda to the Falken, not the Kumho, and that tire seemed to be several lbs heavier. I would suspect the same would hold true with other brands because the Kenda is built very lightly, which I suspect is why they seem to wear out quickly.

I don't think the design of the tire has anything to do with unsprung weight or alike, I'm sure it has to do with costs. The front end of the Spyder is structurally almost identical to their quads and those tires weigh a ton (or tonne ).

I will say that based upon my previous experiences, when it comes time to replace the tires on my 14' RT I will buy a car tire without a doubt.

[bug's zedi]

I was under the impression that you needed to put the same manufacturer's tire on the front & rear of a motorcycle "and" the same front & rear specific model of that tire to ensure the same adhesion to the road in all conditions. Failing to do that could easily result in handling problems & maybe a fall off the bike.

Caveat:-I'm no expert here, it's just what I've read in magazines over the years.

I can almost understand why on a car this is true since ideally their handling is designd to be neutral in that both ends lose traction equally, and are therefore neutral in handling. Cars are regularly driven in a controlled skid. On a motorcycle there is no advantage since if either side loses traction you have a high likeklyhood of going down. I would think that any setup that gives maximum traction to either end is better than matching inferior traction front and rear.

[bug's zedi]

I am just going to say this.....what you are running is dangerous, i would never run it for myself, i would never let a customer run that mix on a car
nor would i allow my guys to install it. I play it cautious. if you want to do that set up it is not illegal for you to do it but it actually is for a tire shop
or m/c shop to install that on the vehicle, we are supposed to know better & we would be liable.
It is your bike & you can do what you want, if you crash it really won't affect or bother me too much. It would be nice if I was wrong but as my
employees know when it comes to tires & wheels i am very rarely ever wrong!! My expertise is on car wheels & tires but i don't expect there to be
much difference on handling characteristics with m/c or spyders.
al

With the many documented failures of rear tires on these large motorcycles, I believe I am using the least dangerous setup for a gl1800. The only change in handling is a distinct increase in traction at the rear. This does mean that the in slippery conditions the front will tend to push first as opposed to the rear coming around, but either end slipping is a bad thing, so improving the grip on eithewr end is an improvement.

On a car I agree that handling can be adversly effected if one end has much greater traction. This is different since the loss of traction is not as big a deal on four wheels, and is much easier to recover from. Even saying that I still feel much safer in winter conditions with my studded Gislavid Nordfrost 3's on the front only of my Altima, than only All seasons all around. Obviousley 4 winters are the best, but oh well.

[BajaRon]

Out of curiosity, if anyone gets the opportunity, could they weigh the stock tyre vs a car tyre? particularly the front ones. If bike is 2 ply and car 4 ply could the reason be to reduce unsprung weight and to allow more flex to alleviate strain off the steering components? (At the expense of longevity).

cheers
nito

When I switched to the Toyo Proxes TR1 rear tire (very nice tire and so far, my favorite) I weighed both the worn out OEM tire and the new Toyo. I was surprised to find the Toyo to be lighter! I don't remember the exact weights but I think it was lighter by about 2 pounds. This really surprised me. But thinking about it. I came to these possible reasons.

The OEM tire is the only one of its kind. No competition, no other choice. Take it or leave it.

The Toyo has a lot of competition as there were many other tire makers producing the same size and similar design tire. How much research went into the OEM tire? Who knows, but chances are that a lot of research went into the Toyo. To compete, Toyo had to make a better tire at a competitive price. The OEM manufacturer has no such pressure.

How many of these tires did Toyo sell? Probably millions! High volume lowers per unit price and also justifies making a higher quality product.

How many OEM tires are being sold? In comparison to just this one Toyo brand and model, probably a drop in the bucket. Remember, a car will get 4 of these. The Spyder just 1.

Just because a tire has 4 plies instead of 2 does not necessarily mean it will be heavier. The number of plies is meant to give more rigidity and a higher weight carrying capacity. Obviously, our Spyders do not need more plies to carry more weight. But the additional plies also make for a flatter tread area giving you more meat on the road surface and a more uniform wear pattern.

The wider the tire, the more you need additional strength across the tread area. Otherwise, your tire will balloon in the middle as speed increases giving you the classic, Worn Out in the Middle wear pattern.

It appears that better technology and manufacturing processes can give you both increased rigidity and less weight. That's my theory, what's yours?

[oldgoat]

I can almost understand why on a car this is true since ideally their handling is designd to be neutral in that both ends lose traction equally, and are therefore neutral in handling. Cars are regularly driven in a controlled skid. On a motorcycle there is no advantage since if either side loses traction you have a high likeklyhood of going down. I would think that any setup that gives maximum traction to either end is better than matching inferior traction front and rear.

I understand the point you are making with regard to getting the best traction at both ends of the motorcycle.

I'm just not in a position to give a definitive argument one way or another.

[oldgoat]

When I switched to the Toyo Proxes TR1 rear tire (very nice tire and so far, my favorite) I weighed both the worn out OEM tire and the new Toyo. I was surprised to find the Toyo to be lighter! I don't remember the exact weights but I think it was lighter by about 2 pounds. This really surprised me. But thinking about it. I came to these possible reasons.

The OEM tire is the only one of its kind. No competition, no other choice. Take it or leave it.

The Toyo has a lot of competition as there were many other tire makers producing the same size and similar design tire. How much research went into the OEM tire? Who knows, but chances are that a lot of research went into the Toyo. To compete, Toyo had to make a better tire at a competitive price. The OEM manufacturer has no such pressure.

How many of these tires did Toyo sell? Probably millions! High volume lowers per unit price and also justifies making a higher quality product.

How many OEM tires are being sold? In comparison to just this one Toyo brand and model, probably a drop in the bucket. Remember, a car will get 4 of these. The Spyder just 1.

Just because a tire has 4 plies instead of 2 does not necessarily mean it will be heavier. The number of plies is meant to give more rigidity and a higher weight carrying capacity. Obviously, our Spyders do not need more plies to carry more weight. But the additional plies also make for a flatter tread area giving you more meat on the road surface and a more uniform wear pattern.

The wider the tire, the more you need additional strength across the tread area. Otherwise, your tire will balloon in the middle as speed increases giving you the classic, Worn Out in the Middle wear pattern.

It appears that better technology and manufacturing processes can give you both increased rigidity and less weight. That's my theory, what's yours?

Ron
Should I manage to find one, what size did you get?

[SpongeBob]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2...cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

[BajaRon]

Ron
Should I manage to find one, what size did you get?

Stock size, 225-50-15

It would be nice to find a slightly larger rear tire to get closer on actual speed. But as far as I know they didn't make this in a 225-55-15.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2...cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

tires are made in thailand, i have been there. fun country great place to ride a spyder but i don't know if i want to trust
my ride on their tires
al

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Stock size, 225-50-15

It would be nice to find a slightly larger rear tire to get closer on actual speed. But as far as I know they didn't make this in a 225-55-15.

225x55R15 is a discontinued size that was made for early to mid 90's bmw 3. they used to make it in a 'v' rating which would
be great for our bikes
al

[BajaRon]

225x55R15 is a discontinued size that was made for early to mid 90's bmw 3. they used to make it in a 'v' rating which would
be great for our bikes
al

Many of the 225/50/15 tires that work well on our Spyder are also being discontinued. Like the Toyo Proxes TR1.

[dndfindley]

Following this thread with great interest. 7200km(4500miles) and I'm down to the wear bars. That's just not acceptable.

Acceptable or not that is about the norm for OEM. I have 8500 miles on mine and it's down to the wear bars but I think I can make it until I have the 9300 mile service done and then I'll have the dealer mount another Kenda OEM while it's in for routine service. Car tires have been shown to last a lot longer but BRP put the Kenda's on there for a reason and I'm sticking with it.

[dndfindley]

I just noticed this ad from Vee Rubber in Rider magazine ...

http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=2...cat=motorcycle

They're calling their Spyder tire the Arachnid.

Thailand? Seriously?