Issue with 2012 RSS...during shift from 1st to 2nd. Problem solvers unite!

[StealthSpyder]

Hey guys,

I didn't really notice the issue when I was ryding two up with my girl. I believe the reason is because I slowly and more gradually accelerate to 5500-ish rpm's before up-shifting to second when she was ryding with me.

When I was ryding by myself last night, I was definitely a bit more spirited. I was still shifting from 1 --> 2 in the 5500-7000 range...but the acceleration was much heavier than when I was ryding two up. So there was more torque involved during the shift when I was solo because I was driving it a bit harder.

Here is the best way that I can describe the symptoms I experienced:

During the shift, literally directly after I hit the + to go from 1st to second gear...sometimes, not always, but it is more often than not...it almost feels like there is a moment (half second to a second max) of slight hesitation before the next gear grabs and bites
It presents almost in a bit of a rubber band effect where when it does catch, it's a bit of a lurch forward, a jerk
I've only experienced it during the shift from 1st to 2nd under medium to heavy acceleration, all others shifts from 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th etc do not exhibit this issue, even under medium to hard acceleration
If I had to guess, it almost seems like the belt (or clutch?) is slipping during that shift and then an instant later it catches (lurch effect) and then is fine
But during that instant when it slips and then finally grabs, there's a definite torque lurch and it's unsettling. Definitely not anything that I can't control, and it's definitely not unsafe whatsoever. But there is definitely something improper/wrong/incorrect occurring when it happens
The bike only has 1950 miles. Even if the previous owner was never taught how to properly shift and he rode it around 3k rpm's and shifted at way too low of rpm's for the Rotax engine (like we all know better not to do)...could the clutch be going bad already at 1950 miles?
Might is be that the belt is slipping (at 2000 miles young!?) and it needs the highly praised smoothspyder belt tensioner?
One more tidbit...the previous owner had it in the shop for a faulty shifting sensor. What's that? Apparently the bike went into limp mode or something. He had it picked up at his house a half hour away from the dealer and had it brought down to the dealer to be worked on. I then bought it from that dealer a month later (last week) after they fixed it up. The previous owner had decided to upgrade to a 2014 RTS so this issue just accelerated his decision. The sales manager showed and read me the whole incident report that the shop generated in regards to fixing the shifting sensor. It was in the completed part of his system, so it was clearly a closed out ticket that had been fixed. The final notes from the spyder tech were along the lines of "Replaced sensor, shifting on the bike is back to normal, this issue is now closed."


P.S. I do not roll off the throttle or give it more throttle when shifting, as I was taught not to do from the forum. I keep steady gas on the throttle when shifting.


It's been bothering me thinking about it all day today.

I freaking love this thing already and I haven't even owned it a week yet hehe!!!


Any ideas as to what it might be, or things I can be paying attention for while ryding etc?

Thanks in advance! I want to get my kickazz spyder in tiptop shape!

[Bob Denman]

Let's eliminate the belt; it rides in cogged pulleys...
The first to second gear upshifts are when you're putting the most torque loads on the clutches and drivetrain, so it'll always be the one that feels the "funkiest".
Unles the bike was widly revving and going nowhere fast during the shift; I'd guess that theclutches are fine...
The momentary lag... That could be an indication that your oil level is a bit low. These bikes seem to be really fussy, and start complaining if they're more than six drops low on oil in the tank. But that's actually a good thing; you'll never be allowed to let the levels drop to where any real damage might occur.
Please take a look at the oil level (As per the manual's explicit instructions! ), and let us know what you find.
Good luck!

[dadof4]

I had that happen often on my 2010 RT SE5. It gave the sensation the bike was hesitating causing your body to slightly lunge forward. The bike will not let you up shift until you reach a certain rpm. My thought was I was shifting right at that point and the nanny may have been indecisive in allowing me to shift. I starting shifting at a higher rpm and never experienced the issue again. Not sure if that is the issue with yours but it's worth considering.

[HuckFin]

I know on my 2013 RS-S if I casually upshift, I get a slight pause before the shift is complete. From what I have read in the past from other members here on Spyderlovers is that it is normal. If you want to ease into a shift without the pause try experimenting with different RPMs.

[msj4848]

Check the oil for sure, make sure it is fully warmed up before checking, follow the proper procedure.
Also, some bikes seem to be pickier than others about letting them warm up in the garage for five minutes or so before setting out.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I've owned Spyders since 09, currently have three, the 2014 RT is now in about 1000 pieces in the garage............So I am slightly familiar with these things.............I have an 11 RSS SE-5, that just had the shifter re-placed ( under warranty ) because it didn't always send the signal to the computer correctly........very hit or miss thing..........Now it seems to be OK...........From what you have described I honestly ( your not gonna like this ).......splitting hairs on the feeling issue..............Most Bar Stool Drag racers will swear up and down that they can FEEL THE 25 hp THEY JUST PAID $1000 for to put on an engine that already makes 300 + HP..................you know what ....they are FULL OF ......well you know .........they can't feel it ......I doubt many pro's could feel it ...............But when you just spent $ 1000 ......Most can feel it............The only thing I could recommend is a BUDS check by someone competant and HONEST.........that might let your selling Dealer out on this ......JMHO....Mikeguyver

[greatrides]

Have almost 30k now same clutch had it in at dealer for other things and never called me about it. Good luck with it and let us know what you find.

[msj4848]

I don't think it's the clutch wearing out already. The first 900 miles of my spyders life were as a demo bike, I'm sure it's had a much harder life than most clutches out there. I'm at almost 13k miles now and the only time I've experienced what your describing is when it's below freezing or the oil is in desperate need of a change or top off. I would change both filters and the oil, even if some claims to have done so recently, if for nothing more than your own peace of mind.

[msj4848]

If anyone can elaborate as to what that whole horsepower thing was^^^ feel free to let me in on the secret....

[Bob Denman]

Be danged if I know...
Let's wait and see how the oil check comes back...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If anyone can elaborate as to what that whole horsepower thing was^^^ feel free to let me in on the secret....

..." analogy ".................( the dictionary description is toooo long for me to type sorry ).....Mikeguyver

[msj4848]

Ctrl+c copies, ctrl+v pastes.....

Analogy for what?

[900Dave]

..." analogy ".................( the dictionary description is toooo long for me to type sorry ).....Mikeguyver

EXACTLY what you are reffering to.

[900Dave]

Uphill shift or going downhill or rpms low or high or real high makes a difference on how the shift feels. Sometimes my ST-L shifts hard and sometimes it just kind of slides in "soft" and then grabs. Seems to really vary on the conditions mentioned above. But do check your oil level and you need to ride it then check it. Idling for 10 minutes parked to get it up to normal operating temp will not give an accurate oil level reading.

[dadof4]

Strongly suggest you try the simple things first. Shift at a higher RPM and see what happens.

[StealthSpyder]

VERY insightful and helpful responses guys!! Much appreciated. I am firmly believing that my oil is probably a little low (based on the responses) even though I just got it from the dealer one week ago tomorrow. That makes the most sense given how many miles are on it.

Here is my one issue...my spyder didn't come with an owners manual!! I told the dealer and they're getting me one for my 2012 RSS.

In the meantime...can anyone give me a quick instruction for checking the oil, just want to be sure. I know that I need to go for a 10-15 minute ride to get everything up to operating temp. Then check the oil...where is the dipstick?

Also...I believe from what I have read that the correct reading, when up to operating temp, is somewhere between the low part of the hatchmarks and the mid part of the hatch marks...that correct? What should I fill it to?

Lastly...what is the recommended kind of oil weight to put in...I'll go grab a quart or whatever size motorcycle oil comes in at the local advanced auto parts. Recommend me the highest quality most expensive brand.

I promise that I will update this thread with my findings!

[Bob Denman]

You've got to get the bike up to full operating temperature... Go take it for a nice ride to the dealer, and pick up a quart (or is it a litre?) of oil.
When you get back home:
Leave the bike idling...
(It's got to idle for at LEAST 30 seconds...)
Pull the appropriate side cover off, and get yourself a clean rag.
Shut the bike off, and unscrew the oil dipstick.
make sure that the O-ring is seated in place up around the top of it.
Wipe it off, and screw it back down into the tank.
Now; pull it one more time, and take a look at where th oil is on it.

The Keys to an accurate reading:
FULL operating temperature
At least 30 seconds of idling

Good Luck!

[StealthSpyder]

You've got to get the bike up to full operating temperature... Go take it for a nice ride to the dealer, and pick up a quart (or is it a litre?) of oil.
When you get back home:
Leave the bike idling...
(It's got to idle for at LEAST 30 seconds...)
Pull the appropriate side cover off, and get yourself a clean rag.
Shut the bike off, and unscrew the oil dipstick.
make sure that the O-ring is seated in place up around the top of it.
Wipe it off, and screw it back down into the tank.
Now; pull it one more time, and take a look at where th oil is on it.

The Keys to an accurate reading:
FULL operating temperature
At least 30 seconds of idling

Good Luck!

Awesome! Didn't know about the leave idling for a minute part. Good to know!

How about the oil level reading...amIrite that the correct level should be in the middle between the low part of the hatchmarks and the mid part of the hatch marks at that time?

[Bob Denman]

Yup! That's the acceptable range of oil levels. If you've ever had trouble with your bike pushing oil up into the airbox; it helps to keep it at the lower end of that range.

[StealthSpyder]

Strongly suggest you try the simple things first. Shift at a higher RPM and see what happens.

Thanks dadof4...forgot to address this. I definitely have tried shifting at different RPM's with mixed results. You know one thing I'm somewhat wondering about...every single one of my rydes so far have been less than 25 minutes long, one way. It is possible that these erratic/delayed shifts from 1 --> 2 are happening in mostly the first 15 minutes of each ryde before it's warmed up. Going to pay more attention to this as I acquire more seat time.

Also, as mentioned, checking out the oil situation is priority #1 this weekend. Now I just need to figure out the best/recommended oil to put in the spyder if it is even slightly lower than half way between bottom hatchmarks and middle hatchmarks.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

No one else has said this but ...after you have determined the whole oil thing ....................JUST CHECK YOUR OIL....AFTER YOU FINISH EVERY RIDE .......then you know it's correct before you begin your next ride ..........IT'S ALWAYS THE CORRECT TEMP ....and you are wasting no time waiting for the whole warm up thing ..................JMHO..................Mikeguyver ..................PS I made my own " THREADLESS OIL DIPSTICK " from some pieces of wood dowel that I measured to fit exactly the same as OEM then painted it white......NO MORE THREADING IT IN /OUT/IN/OUT ETC.....if you cross thread the OEM dipstick .......$ 22.95 for a new one