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  1. #26
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    Default Autozone

    I printed Lamonster's posted photo and took it to Autozone to get my spare relay. That made it real easy, just handing the photo showing the part number to the sales clerk. Unfortunately, the bin where that part was supposed to be was empty.

    The clerk wrote down the part number and said he would re-stock it right away. He also offered to order it for me but I said; "no rush, I'll check back in a couple of weeks". He said it will be in stock by then for sure. Of course he could sell out of stock, before I come back, if he gets a flock of Spyder owners buying the spare relays. Not likely!

    Then I could blame Lamonster for making this such a popular item.

  2. #27
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    Default Spare relay

    Thanks for the info. I'm on my way to pick up 2

  3. #28
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    Autoparts store is the way to go for sure!
    I forgot I had ordered this relay from the dealership and while I was there this morning getting my exhaust problem fixed, they advised me the part was in. Cost oh, only $42 and some change!!
    Told them to re-stock it, I would even pay the restock fee as I thought that was a tad bit outrageous on pricing.

  4. #29
    Registered Users Twodog185's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    If you change the relay and it works that was the problem.

    Thanks for the "heads up". $8.95 times 2...worth every penny for the secure feeling.

    Thanks
    Happy Owner
    Chances are the referenced post is positive in nature, may result in a solution, alteration, modification, or highlights an extraordinary event or ride, that's worth posting.

  5. #30
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    I could not find a Duralast locally (west coast, Canada), so I showed Lamonsters photo to the clerk at Lordco Auto Parts in Mission. He substituted a relay by an outfit called BWD, part # R3110. I tried it out in the headlight socket and it works fine. Cost was $17.77, Canadian.

  6. #31
    Registered Users Rando's Avatar
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    Default relay info?

    A Spyder owner I know did some more research on the Duralast relay and found out that it might not be a perfect match since the amps are different than the stock relay. Here is the info:

    could you please give me the operating specs of your relay # 41 5100 it is available as a Duralast # 19271

    Dan,
    From our database:

    Hope this helps,
    Joe Dantuono
    Quality Assurance

    The relay from Auto Zone is a 20/10, we need 30/20 for the bike. I asked Sorensen (the maker) for the spec and they sent it out.



  7. #32
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rando View Post
    A Spyder owner I know did some more research on the Duralast relay and found out that it might not be a perfect match since the amps are different than the stock relay. Here is the info:

    could you please give me the operating specs of your relay # 41 5100 it is available as a Duralast # 19271

    Dan,
    From our database:

    Hope this helps,
    Joe Dantuono
    Quality Assurance

    The relay from Auto Zone is a 20/10, we need 30/20 for the bike. I asked Sorensen (the maker) for the spec and they sent it out.

    So do we have a part number for the correct relay? I've been looking since our phone call and I can't find anything on it.

    The relay I posted was the relay that AZ came up with when they checked it in the Autozone computer.

  8. #33
    Registered Users Rando's Avatar
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    He requested an equivalent part number for the 30/20 but hasn't recieved one yet. If and when he gets it, I will post it.

  9. #34
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    Has anyone actually tried the AZ relay. I have been riding around with it as a spare thinking I'm ready and that may not be the case. The AZ store here in MI did the same file search and sold me the Duralast as a match. Apparently not?

  10. #35
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Yes, it works fine.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    Yes, it works fine.
    Figured as much. Maybe it would be easier to ask, what haven't you tried?

  12. #37
    Registered Users Rando's Avatar
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    The friend that shared the info with me said it will work for two out of the three. The fan relay needs a 30/20 or it will fail.

    I am NOT the expert. He is not on the forum so I am just sharing info.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rando View Post
    The friend that shared the info with me said it will work for two out of the three. The fan relay needs a 30/20 or it will fail.

    I am NOT the expert. He is not on the forum so I am just sharing info.
    Then you should be fine by swapping out a good 30/20 relay to the fan slot and using the spare 20/10 for the other slot in an emergency.

  14. #39
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    I wonder what else could be powered off of that fan relay. 30 amps seems like an awful lot for that little fan. I might try to look at the wiring diagrams tonight to see if I can figure out for myself why there is a need for 30 amp capable relays.

  15. #40
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Headlights would draw 9.1 amps
    Not sure what the main relay would draw or the fan relay.

  16. #41
    Registered Users Rando's Avatar
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    BJT, It was Karen's bike that blew a fan relay. Dan said the original was a 30/20 and the Autozone replacement was a 20/10. They ordered a 30/20 from the dealer today for $10.00.
    Quote Originally Posted by bjt View Post
    I wonder what else could be powered off of that fan relay. 30 amps seems like an awful lot for that little fan. I might try to look at the wiring diagrams tonight to see if I can figure out for myself why there is a need for 30 amp capable relays.

  17. #42
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    The Headlamp Relay (R2) is fed by a 30 amp fuse, but that fuse also serves the 10 amp foglight circuit, which is not relay operated. The Cooling Fan Relay (R4) is fed by a 15 amp fuse. Both these fuses feed both the relay contacts and coils. Main Relay 2 (R3) is fed by the main 40 amp fuse for the contacts, and a 10 amp fuse for the coil (shared with Main Relay 1 coil). The Main Relay 2 contacts feed 4 fuses down circuit, for a total allowable load of 23 amps. Main Relay 1 (R1) contacts are also fed by the 40 amp main fuse. These contacts feed two fuses down circuit, for a total of 25 amps.

    Good electrical practice dictates that the any components should be able to carry at least as much amperage as the wires that feed them and the circuit protection (fuses). That would dictate a minimum of a 30 amp relay for the headlights, a 15 amp relay for the fan, and 40 amp relays for the remaining two. Only the stock Tyco fan relay meets this standard, although the load for the headlight relay is probably within limits unless a short circuit develops. The large VF28 Main Relay 1 meets the downstream circuit's requirements, but at 35 amps, is rated slightly below the load of the main fuse. Substitution of the smaller VJ28 relay in this position appears to be insuffiecient for the load, if the Spyder's circuitry has not been changed to accomodate the smaller relay. The possible load on Main Relay 2 exceeds that relay's continuous current rating.

    From what I can find, the Tyco VF28 relay is a standard unit with Form A contacts (make-break). The three VJ28 relays are apparently specially ordered from Tyco in a higher rating than their standard VJ28 relay. The Tyco data sheet says this is possible, and it explains the non-standard part number. These would appear to have a Form C contact (changeover), but are used as make-break on the Spyder. It is all very confusing.

    As a result of what has been posted here today, and my research, I am no longer comfortable using the Duralast relay as a spare. I will buy one of each of the BRP relays, although they do not seem to be as reliable as they could be...or of sufficient ratings for the most part. They are rated higher than the auto store replacements, however.
    -Scotty

  18. #43
    Very Active Member Dudley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancysToy View Post
    The Headlamp Relay (R2) is fed by a 30 amp fuse, but that fuse also serves the 10 amp foglight circuit, which is not relay operated. The Cooling Fan Relay (R4) is fed by a 15 amp fuse. Both these fuses feed both the relay contacts and coils. Main Relay 2 (R3) is fed by the main 40 amp fuse for the contacts, and a 10 amp fuse for the coil (shared with Main Relay 1 coil). The Main Relay 2 contacts feed 4 fuses down circuit, for a total allowable load of 23 amps. Main Relay 1 (R1) contacts are also fed by the 40 amp main fuse. These contacts feed two fuses down circuit, for a total of 25 amps.

    Good electrical practice dictates that the any components should be able to carry at least as much amperage as the wires that feed them and the circuit protection (fuses). That would dictate a minimum of a 30 amp relay for the headlights, a 15 amp relay for the fan, and 40 amp relays for the remaining two. Only the stock Tyco fan relay meets this standard, although the load for the headlight relay is probably within limits unless a short circuit develops. The large VF28 Main Relay 1 meets the downstream circuit's requirements, but at 35 amps, is rated slightly below the load of the main fuse. Substitution of the smaller VJ28 relay in this position appears to be insuffiecient for the load, if the Spyder's circuitry has not been changed to accomodate the smaller relay. The possible load on Main Relay 2 exceeds that relay's continuous current rating.

    From what I can find, the Tyco VF28 relay is a standard unit with Form A contacts (make-break). The three VJ28 relays are apparently specially ordered from Tyco in a higher rating than their standard VJ28 relay. The Tyco data sheet says this is possible, and it explains the non-standard part number. These would appear to have a Form C contact (changeover), but are used as make-break on the Spyder. It is all very confusing.

    As a result of what has been posted here today, and my research, I am no longer comfortable using the Duralast relay as a spare. I will buy one of each of the BRP relays, although they do not seem to be as reliable as they could be...or of sufficient ratings for the most part. They are rated higher than the auto store replacements, however.
    -Scotty


    I am sooooooooo confused!!!!!
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    Dec 12th, 2017 drove a 2017 F3L home. What an awesome machine!

    Never had any breakdown stranded issues.

  19. #44
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley View Post

    I am sooooooooo confused!!!!!
    Me too, and I'm the one that wrote it! In a nutshell, I don't feel the Autozone and other replacement relays are rated high enough, even though they seem to have worked for most people. I'm buying some BRP relays just to be safe.
    -Scotty

  20. #45
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    I'll differ with Scotty and Rando's buddy on this one. After looking through the schematics, I think the VJ28 replacements (Duralast, BWD, etc.) that people are buying from auto parts stores are good enough for all three positions and possibly good enough to replace the larger main relay.

    These are my reasons...

    My Duralast relay was actually manufactured by Pokorny and this is a data sheet of their Micro relays. It is very similar to the TYCO VJ28 relays that are rated at 20/10 but their data sheet isn't as complete as the TYCO data sheet. It may have identical specs. Assuming they are identical, I'll use the more complete TYCO data sheet for this information. First thing I'm going to do is disregard that 10 amp portion of their rating as the Spyder does not use that contact in any of the three relay positions. Next, the 20 amp contact rating is at 85° C or 185° F. At 23° C (about 75° F) the contacts are rated at 25 amps. I think that in the Spyder fuseholder location, the relays will operate in temps closer to 75° F than 185° F so the contacts can reliably handle more than 20 amps continuous, maybe up to 25 amps. Finally, the contacts are rated for an electrical of endurance of greater than 100,000 cycles at 20 amps load (they can turn on and off over 100,000 times while passing 20 amps through the contacts without failing).

    The Headlamp relay is fused at 30 amps but feeds a 10 amp foglight fuse which doesn't go through the headlight relay. So the relay itself is counted on handling something less than 30 amps. The stock BRP lights are 55 watts times 2 or 110 watts total. 110 watts divided by 12 volts is the 9.1 (actually 9.1667) amps that lamonster referenced. I'm not sure what the HID lights and ballasts draw but I thought someone said that it was less than the stock lights. I'm not sure what the high/low shutter solenoid draws but it surely can't be more than 10 amps. Those are the only devices (headlamps and solenoids) that are powered through that relay. So, probably 99% of the time, that relay is passing current that is less than 20 amps likely only around 10 amps depending on when the solenoids are drawing power.

    The Fan relay is fused at 15 amps. There is nothing else in that circuit so the 20 amp relay should be able to handle that circuit. I'm not sure what the actually fan motor electrical specs / current draw is but it should be less than the 15 amps its fused at.

    The Main 2 relay feeds a 5 amp cluster fuse, a 10 amp (diagnostic connector, clutch valve, horn) fuse, a 3 amp switched accessory fuse and a 5 amp DPS control fuse. Of all those things, I think the horn is the highest current draw and that is only a seldom used, short duration draw. Some folks don't use the switched accessory connection at all or only sometimes so at least those two items would drop the total current draw down under 20 amps. The diagnostic connector would only draw power during maintenance / testing so that could further decrease the current draw of that portion of that circuit. I think its reasonable to expect that the Main 2 relay circuit draws less than 20 amps under normal operation. Note: being the switched accessory is powered through this relay with all these different devices in the circuit, it is just one more reason to not run more than 3 amps worth of accessories through that circuit.

    On our 2008 Spyders, the Main 1 relay should continue to be the higher rated VF28 relay. I'm not sure what the actual current draws of all the devices it feeds is but it feeds a total of 25 amps of fuses. However, I think we can see that the VJ28 relay (operating in around 75° F temps) could probably be counted on to "get you home" if that main relay went kaput. Maybe the 2009 Spyder that was pictured with a VJ28 relay in this position has a different circuit design or different devices in the circuit that don't draw as much current through the relay.

    Anyone who knows more about this, feel free to tell me where I'm wrong.
    Last edited by bjt; 05-27-2009 at 09:05 AM.

  21. #46
    SpyderLovers Founder Lamonster's Avatar
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    Wow, great post Bro. Thanks for doing the research on this.

  22. #47
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamonster View Post
    Wow, great post Bro. Thanks for doing the research on this.
    I'll send you my bill...

  23. #48
    Motorbike Professor NancysToy's Avatar
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    Brian, I approached this from a strictly engineering point of view, and I'm sure you will agree that the fusing and the relay ratings don't seem to match. I like your more practical approach, and certainly agree that the actual loads on the circuits are probably far less than what the circuits are fused to handle, or what the relays are rated for. I also agree that a Duralast relay will be very likely to get you home...in any position. I am still hesitant to use one in the long run, however, given the higher rating of the custom VJ28 relays that are standard on the Spyder. They did not use the standard relay for a reason. We also both seem to agree that the earlier Spyders, at least, should probably use the VF28 relays for Main Relay 1. I will probably continue to keep a Duralast relay in the trunk as a spare, but I am certain to put at least one of each of the BRP relays on the shelf as a precaution, especially since they need to be ordered from most dealers.
    -Scotty

  24. #49
    Very Helpful Member bjt's Avatar
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    I tried approaching at least some of it from an engineering point of view also. I'm just more cynical than you about things like this. IMO, there are many reasons why a certain device is chosen when designing and building a product. One thing I have learned over the years of working in an industrial field is that just because something was used in the original manufacture of a product doesn't make it the only correct or even the most correct thing to use. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who aren't as careful about how they do their job as I feel you or many of us would be. For all we know, the engineer in charge of the relays for the Spyder has a lot of stock in TYCO or got some type of kickback for "specifying" a non-standard relay. Stuff like that happens.

    BTW, I'm not calling the BRP engineers incompetent but I don't believe they are God's gift to the engineering field either. For the most part, they have designed a super product right out of the gate with only a few major or semi-major problems.
    Last edited by bjt; 05-27-2009 at 11:32 AM.

  25. #50
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    Much of the "special" part decision is to push business to their dealers for parts. They need you in dealer stores so you see more, buy more. If they used all off the shelf stuff, we'd all be in auto parts stores instead of the dealers. Oil, relays, light bulbs, tires are dealer profit items and in the end, that's not bad for us a owners.

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