My 2013 RTS and the evap canister puking fuel adventure.

[3 Wheel Addict]

Well it's been at the dealer since Tuesday evening and they have called to keep me informed yesterday and again today. The news today was not the greatest, the first call today was the dealer telling me they are waiting to hear back from BRP on what they are going to do with it, at first I thought this was good news as they are trying to come up with a solution to the problem. I got another call back about an hour later and the dealer said they are going to replace the evap canister as it weighed in heavy (ie full of fuel) and the answer from BRP was to.... wait for it..... Not to over fill the tank!! Ok that was not what I was hoping to hear as that is NOT an solution for fuel in that canister!
The bike is just about 7 months old and just a tick over 2000 miles. I have never overfilled the tank, the level is always just below the filler neck in the tank. It's not like I'm running it over and filling my shoes as I stand there wondering why my feet are getting wet, come on! Well at this point the wife just want's me to get rid of it and move on as the trouble will never end with it. I have never been so disappointed with a product in my life.

[NancysToy]

Sorry, but just below the filler neck is overly full. "Full" is about an inch down. Filling too fast will push over fuel. too. It is a bad design.

For best results insert the nozzle barely into the tank and fill by hand, as slowly as possible...especially nearing the top. Stop when the automatic nozzle clicks off. You can top it off until it clicks off a second time, but no more. This procedure offers no guarantees, but it can save some grief. For the 2013 and prior, if you put in more than 4.5-4.7 gallons right when the fuel light comes on, you are probably overfilling.

[Spyder in La.]

It's not like I'm running it over and filling my shoes as I stand there wondering why my feet are getting wet, come on! .

.... I did that last year at a Chevron station in Sweetwater,Tx... The automatic nozzle never clicked... Had to push my hot bike thru the gas puddle... Have Mercy!!!

[3 Wheel Addict]

.... I did that last year at a Chevron station in Sweetwater,Tx... The automatic nozzle never clicked... Had to push my hot bike thru the gas puddle... Have Mercy!!!

There, that's exactly what I mean... it happens but by you doing this you could have damaged your spyder depending on what year it is. It appears that only the 13's have an issue with overfilling the tank and filling the evap canister. I believe that this is a bogus excuse for a weak design and it's going to take someone getting hurt before something get's done. There are many more on this forum that have this issue which is a shame because after getting the latest ECM update my spyder is running better than ever, till this. So I guess the answer is a new canister every 2000 miles.

[NancysToy]

It is not only the '13s that have this issue, although it is aggravated on the '13 RTs and STs by the excessive heat which can push over fuel as it expands if the tank is too full.

[JKMSPYDER]

You could always consider a canisterectomy and be done with it.

[3 Wheel Addict]

Just picked mine up from the dealer that replaced the evap canister and I was told not to overfill the gas tank. Temps are hovering around 80 today on the ride home and upon pulling it into the garage and shutting it off I noticed an extreme amount of gas vapors pouring out from that vent line under the bike. If you hold your hand close to that vapor stream it is hot enough to burn you, grabbed the thermal gun and I'm getting around 167 degrees at that hose end, and that's venting from the tank!! The gas tank is between 1/4 and a half so it NOT overfilled.

[flamingobabe]

dislike....just saying...about the continued problems with 2013's.....I try to be positive...it's hard....I have a month trip planned.....hoping for a great outcome

[stewartj239]

I understand your frustration and disappointment and I know you want to leave things stock, but it is such a simple fix to just remove it. As already stated, it is a design flaw that is not going to be redesigned. It costs less than $15 in parts to remove, your stress level will go down and this problem will totally go away. Also, you won't have to worry anymore about your garage burning down anymore

[3 Wheel Addict]

I understand your frustration and disappointment and I know you want to leave things stock, but it is such a simple fix to just remove it. As already stated, it is a design flaw that is not going to be redesigned. It costs less than $15 in parts to remove, your stress level will go down and this problem will totally go away. Also, you won't have to worry anymore about your garage burning down anymore

How do you come to that conclusion? Removing the canister and opening the vent straight to the air is no better than it puking out the vent from the canister. The charcoal canister is suppose to capture the fumes and recycle them back into the engine to be burned. After riding home from the dealer today after they did the work of replacing the canister I pulled the spyder in the garage and parked it. I went inside to eat and upon returning to the garage it was full of gas fumes and a small puddle on the floor with dripping gas from the vent hose! Now this is less than 1 hour and 30 minuets from picking it up with a new canister and here's the best part, the tank was not full! I had between 1/4 and a 1/2 of a tank so that kills the theory of overfilling the tank. I swear the problem is a overheated gas tank with alcohol blended fuel in it. The excessive fuming of the gas is causing way too much vapor to collect in that canister and it just can't cope with the volume. Anybody knows that if you capture vapor and it cools down it will condense back into a liquid and THAT is what's filling that canister, no being overfilled. This is coming right back to the heat issue. I have called the dealer and it's going back, again....

[JKMSPYDER]

Another option that could make a big difference in the heat is to remove the cat converter. Being that it is under the gas tank, that could be a major contributor to the boiling gas. If you don't have to have emissions testing in your state, you might want to consider.

[NancysToy]

You sure have a Spyder at the far end of the heating spectrum. I'm really sorry to hear it. I think the documentation you are collecting may help push for a solution. I agree that there should be minimal fumes escaping from an emissions system vent...or it is not meeting the EPA standards.

[3 Wheel Addict]

I'm really getting disgusted with the whole thing and it's starting to get a little old. It's not a simple thing to get it to and from the dealer, looks like they should supply a trailer with every purchase so you can get it serviced. I picked my spyder up on Saturday afternoon and my truck is 35 miles away at my brothers house because I cant drive both. He's bringing my truck back on Monday but now I'm stuck needing to take the spyder back to the dealer, again!
I have considered removing the cat since it's a simple swap out but I don't feel removing the canister is an option. I may try to remove the fuel tank and wrap the complete tank with Thermal Tech heat shield, I have two 4x4 sheets I bought awhile back but never used it. Looking at the tank BRP has minimal shielding on it anyway. I'm just not going to go and redesign the bike to fix something I should not have to fix.
Could the gas I'm using be a contributor to this problem? I have never used anything less than 93 octane since new. I know that 93 gas is not better gas just chemically enhanced to get higher octane, maybe that's making it worse?? My only choices around here are 87 / 89 / 93 and I think 91 is the minimum.

[flamingobabe]

I use regular gas.......

[stewartj239]

How do you come to that conclusion? Removing the canister and opening the vent straight to the air is no better than it puking out the vent from the canister.

After removing mine, the fumes are gone and not one drip on the ground. I don't know what to tell you. It worked for me. I'm just trying to help .....

[miltonb]

20140329_150823[1].jpg20140329_150833[1].jpg20140329_150922[1].jpg20140329_150759[1].jpgtook 2013 in for 2nd service week later they found master cylinder melt they fixed that week later they found this. I think this could start a fire and the evidence would be burned up with the bike and one could say, we cant figure out what happened. I wanted to talk to a can am rep but the one in my area is on vacation. in the news there are car company's going thru problems similar to this. I hope one day it can be fixed. I hope you and your wife my very best in the future.
milt

[Bob Denman]

3,
This sure sux...
The question will now become; what are you going to do about it? There's been a TON of threads and posts about the 2013s and their problems with heat. I honestly think that we've also seen a lot of good solutions found by the folks right in here.
Are you going to have the dealer fight this battle?
Are you willing to break out your own wrenches, and get "creative"?
Are you willling to contact BRP directly; with full documentation of each and every occurance, and the steps taken along the way?
(If you do; document each and every facet of your calls! )
Good Luck! Please let us know what happens with this!

[NancysToy]

I'm really getting disgusted with the whole thing and it's starting to get a little old. It's not a simple thing to get it to and from the dealer, looks like they should supply a trailer with every purchase so you can get it serviced. I picked my spyder up on Saturday afternoon and my truck is 35 miles away at my brothers house because I cant drive both. He's bringing my truck back on Monday but now I'm stuck needing to take the spyder back to the dealer, again!
I have considered removing the cat since it's a simple swap out but I don't feel removing the canister is an option. I may try to remove the fuel tank and wrap the complete tank with Thermal Tech heat shield, I have two 4x4 sheets I bought awhile back but never used it. Looking at the tank BRP has minimal shielding on it anyway. I'm just not going to go and redesign the bike to fix something I should not have to fix.
Could the gas I'm using be a contributor to this problem? I have never used anything less than 93 octane since new. I know that 93 gas is not better gas just chemically enhanced to get higher octane, maybe that's making it worse?? My only choices around here are 87 / 89 / 93 and I think 91 is the minimum.

I doubt that removing the cat will do you much good. The heat increase on the mesh type cats is relatively small compared to the original exhaust temperature, and the cat is located where it heats the passengers foot more than the fuel tank. The exhaust pipe is really the main offender, along with the lack of venting/airflow within the body. Wrapping the tank certainly should be of some benefit, although tight clearances in some places make fully enclosing it nearly impossible. Although some gasoline blends are more volatile than others, gasolines throughout a geographical region are usually similar...based on EPA regs. The root of the problem still lies with the design which won't dissipate heat well, the inadeqyuate emissions system, and probably with the tuning on your particular Spyder which is running hotter in the engine compartment than some of its sisters...probably increasing exhaust temperatures. The type of riding can also be an influence (stop-n-go vs. highway). I'm also not convinced that your purge valve is working correctly, or perhaps the engine vacuum is low or the vacuum line cracked or pinched. Low rpm operation can also prevent efficient purging of the canister. These won't affect emissions when parked, but can allow fumes to build in the canister, increasing discharges when parked,

[SpyderAnn01]

20140329_150823[1].jpg20140329_150833[1].jpg20140329_150922[1].jpg20140329_150759[1].jpgtook 2013 in for 2nd service week later they found master cylinder melt they fixed that week later they found this. I think this could start a fire and the evidence would be burned up with the bike and one could say, we cant figure out what happened. I wanted to talk to a can am rep but the one in my area is on vacation. in the news there are car company's going thru problems similar to this. I hope one day it can be fixed. I hope you and your wife my very best in the future.
milt

Did your dealer complete the recall repairs as per the letter that you would have received in September or October? They should have wrapped the master cylinder, parking brake cable and the evap canister. If they only did the master cylinder you need to look for a new dealer and report them to BRP at a minimum.

[3 Wheel Addict]

After removing mine, the fumes are gone and not one drip on the ground. I don't know what to tell you. It worked for me. I'm just trying to help .....

And I thank you for your help and I'm in no way bashing for it, it's just at this point I don't feel that I should have to redesign the bike. If all of us with problems would just keep going back for the warranty that were entitled to they would have to step up and face the masses. Scotty has also offered some good advice and I have done "some" counter measures like wrapping the exhaust pipes and I'm still considering wrapping the fuel tank. These are two things I can do that in no way should effect any warranty as it is doing nothing more than adding to the factory insulation. The bike is running better than ever since the 2013-9 update but there is still issues with it puking fuel. I went on a decent ride today with friends and after stopping for lunch were all standing around talking and you could smell the fumes pouring out from around my bike, I had filled the tank in the morning and stopped filling way below what I would call a fill up and it's still fuming excessively. I should have it back to the dealer later this week.

[Bob Denman]

I think that it was Hayfield, who mentioned filling up with fuel shorty before shutting his bike down...
The influx of cooler gasoline seems to lower the temperatures of everything within the tank...
PM him; he can certainly tell the story better than anybody else!

[stewartj239]

I don't feel that I should have to redesign the bike. If all of us with problems would just keep going back for the warranty that were entitled to they would have to step up and face the masses.

And I agree with you, but I personally feel that I would not have the time or patience to do what you're doing which is why I typically like to take matters into my own hands which was the reason for my advice. I truly hope you get this resolved.