Oil check confusion

[golfsferr]

I have a 13 STS SE5 and I did see that the manual said to get the engine to full operating temperature 176 degrees to check it and it should show full or almost full on the stick. But it also said if I should check it at room temp 65 degrees then it should be half way between Add and Full. I have to wonder why BRP would put that in the manual if its not a dependable way to check. Regardless, I did check it immediately after a 2 hour ride ( full operating temp) and it showed no oil on the stick which caused my confusion. I was reading the manual as I checked the oil to make sure I followed the procedure. Like I said after only adding about a half quart it now reads full at operating temperature or a little past which you said is really of know consequence, which I appreciate you telling me that and it shows at the half way mark once it cooled down to room temperature. So I'm guessing based on yours and some of the others comments, no damage was done and I'll follow your advice to the letter next time I check it. Hopefully I'll figure it out. I really appreciate yours and all the other folks that gave me feedback. Best part of this community!

I'm not sure what year Spyder you have, but unless there has been a change in the manuals this last year or so, it always has called for checking at "full operating temperature" except immediately following an oil change (dumb to do that IMO, by the way). That is not just a matter of having the coolant gauge read normal, it means the oil and metal have to be fully warmed, too. that takes at least a 10-15 minute ride. Overfilling a tiny bit is of little consequence, especially on any Spyder after the first couple of years of production or on the RT, but it might make you blow some oil by to the air box. Being low a little also does little on a dry sump engine, as long as it has oil to pump, but the SE can have shifting issues at lower oil levels. There is no oil level warning, only low oil pressure, so it is up to you to check the oil frequently. If you get a low oil pressure warning, engine damage is likely to have already occurred. I believe BRP recommends something like every 300 or 500 miles. I'd do that until you gauge how yours holds up. If it doesn't use a lot, you can check less frequently. Always check following dealer service...they may overfill or underfill.

One of the biggest reasons for checking the oil at full operating temperature is the repeatability. Room temperature can vary with climate and other conditions. The oil temperature is pretty constant once the machine warms up. The oil is also expanded to a bit more volume than you would see in a cold garage. Unless you have a 2014 RT, which may have a different procedure, I'd stick by what has been shown to work. Come back from a ride, pull off the panel, shut off the engine, wait about 30-60 seconds (or some other period that is about the same delay each time), and check the oil. Remember that the dipstick has to be fully screwed in to show the proper level.

[DaniBoy]

Old thread, I know, but what’s the point of idling 30 seconds when the motor is still hot from riding? Why not just shut down after a nice ride, wait a couple minutes for the oil to settle, and then check it?

[Woodaddict]

has to sit because of scavenger pumps have to relevel the oil level. from being pumped around, between oil reservoir and bottom of pan, gives the best and accurate way to measure level on dip stick

[Peter Aawen]

Old thread, I know, but what’s the point of idling 30 seconds when the motor is still hot from riding? Why not just shut down after a nice ride, wait a couple minutes for the oil to settle, and then check it?

That 'idle for 30 seconds before shut-down' thing is just to let the Scavenge pumps finish doing their thing properly; if you DON'T do that then you might get an odd level reading because they haven't yet been able to ensure that all the necessary oil has been returned to the Reservoir, especially if you were riding 'spiritedly' before the shut-down.... . You hafta remember that the oil in these things is pumped up to be held in a Reservoir that's higher than the bottom of the crankcase, and that there's NO Sump for the oil to 'settle' into!! . So all this is really just another 'BRP's Dry Sump' thing, you'll eventually learn to live with it.

As for waiting a couple of minutes beyond shutting down after a nice ride, that's not such a great idea either, cos you'll never know how much oil has drained OUT of the Reservoir, and if it's reading low because some has, then that could mean you overfill it with oil!! So, particularly on the V-Twins like your 2010, Dani; then as mentioned earlier in this thread, you should idle for 30 seconds or so before shutting the engine down after a ride of at least 30 mins or so at Highway speeds to ensure all the necessary oil has been pumped up and is IN the Reservoir, and THEN CHECK THE OIL LEVEL WITHIN ABOUT 30 Seconds or you risk over-filling because the oil may have already begun to drain OUT of the Reservoir!!


It's really not rocket science, and it's not really all that hard either; it's just a matter of making it all a habit!

Particularly because you've got a V-Twin Dani, and because of their high revving high performance nature, they DO use some oil, so you need to check your oil fairly regularly; you need to check it AFTER a ride and AFTER letting your engine idle down for about 30 seconds before shut-down; and once you have shut it down, you need to check the oil WITHIN about 30 seconds of said shut-down!

All this really means to me is that when I come back from a ride, or at least when I stop AFTER a good ride, I don't shut the engine down immediately. I stop; put it in Neutral & engage the Park Brake; take my helmet & gloves off, jacket too sometimes, if I want to/feel the need; and THEN I shut it down! As soon as I've shut it down, I grab my 'check the oil rag' and remove the tupperware cover plate over the Oil Reservoir; and I check the oil level, making sure that it's at least about mid-way between the ADD mark and the FULL mark, topping it up to be a bit closer to but never OVER the FULL mark if necessary. I might even do the check & maybe top up thing a couple of times, preferring to add too little oil & repeating if necessary, rather than slopping in too much all at once.... but the whole point of all this is that I've given it enough of a run to get the OIL up to operating temp; I've idled the engine down for about 30 seconds or so to let the scavenge pumps do their thing before shutting it down; I've checked the oil level within about 30 seconds of that shut-down and then topped the oil up only if & as necessary to keep the level between about 1/2 way between the ADD mark & the FULL mark but never OVER the FULL mark - and I can assure you that it's a whole lot harder typing all this out again than it is to actually do it!!

Over to you!

[DaniBoy]

That 'idle for 30 seconds before shut-down' thing is just to let the Scavenge pumps finish doing their thing properly; if you DON'T do that then you might get an odd level reading because they haven't yet been able to ensure that all the necessary oil has been returned to the Reservoir, especially if you were riding 'spiritedly' before the shut-down.... . You hafta remember that the oil in these things is pumped up to be held in a Reservoir that's higher than the bottom of the crankcase, and that there's NO Sump for the oil to 'settle' into!! . So all this is really just another 'BRP's Dry Sump' thing, you'll eventually learn to live with it.

As for waiting a couple of minutes beyond shutting down after a nice ride, that's not such a great idea either, cos you'll never know how much oil has drained OUT of the Reservoir, and if it's reading low because some has, then that could mean you overfill it with oil!! So, particularly on the V-Twins like your 2010, Dani; then as mentioned earlier in this thread, you should idle for 30 seconds or so before shutting the engine down after a ride of at least 30 mins or so at Highway speeds to ensure all the necessary oil has been pumped up and is IN the Reservoir, and THEN CHECK THE OIL LEVEL WITHIN ABOUT 30 Seconds or you risk over-filling because the oil may have already begun to drain OUT of the Reservoir!!


It's really not rocket science, and it's not really all that hard either; it's just a matter of making it all a habit!

Particularly because you've got a V-Twin Dani, and because of their high revving high performance nature, they DO use some oil, so you need to check your oil fairly regularly; you need to check it AFTER a ride and AFTER letting your engine idle down for about 30 seconds before shut-down; and once you have shut it down, you need to check the oil WITHIN about 30 seconds of said shut-down!

All this really means to me is that when I come back from a ride, or at least when I stop AFTER a good ride, I don't shut the engine down immediately. I stop; put it in Neutral & engage the Park Brake; take my helmet & gloves off, jacket too sometimes, if I want to/feel the need; and THEN I shut it down! As soon as I've shut it down, I grab my 'check the oil rag' and remove the tupperware cover plate over the Oil Reservoir; and I check the oil level, making sure that it's at least about mid-way between the ADD mark and the FULL mark, topping it up to be a bit closer to but never OVER the FULL mark if necessary. I might even do the check & maybe top up thing a couple of times, preferring to add too little oil & repeating if necessary, rather than slopping in too much all at once.... but the whole point of all this is that I've given it enough of a run to get the OIL up to operating temp; I've idled the engine down for about 30 seconds or so to let the scavenge pumps do their thing before shutting it down; I've checked the oil level within about 30 seconds of that shut-down and then topped the oil up only if & as necessary to keep the level between about 1/2 way between the ADD mark & the FULL mark but never OVER the FULL mark - and I can assure you that it's a whole lot harder typing all this out again than it is to actually do it!!

Over to you!

One other thing. I bought this bike used with 25k on it. It’s been sitting in my 60 degree garage for over a month while I have been working on it. New grips, canisterectomy, etc. I have no idea how much oil is in it because here in the Northeast it hasn’t been riding weather until just now this weekend. Pulling the stick at room temp shows absolutely bone dry. I do know that the girl I bought it from was very picky about having ALL work done at the dealership. She claimed yearly oil changes. Thing is, because I can’t tell how much is in it and haven’t ridden it on a good ride (except a 30 degree 5 mile test ride), I’m a little nervous about “assuming” and going for a full operating temp ride. If it is low, I don’t want to hurt anything. I’m toying with the idea of dropping a stick all the way to the bottom just to verify there is SOME oil in the tank. I figure that as long as there is, that I’ll be ok to do a ride and check it the right way. Does that sound reasonable to you?

[Woodaddict]

RIDE IT...................sitting at proper oil level will show bone dry check...................overfill situation will show oil on stick, you don't want that. oil is stored away from any kind of oil in pan, its in an oil tank away from the bottom. if you tried to put anything lower into tube, you still might come up empty.

ride it a 10 mile ride
come back home, level surface, let idle 2 minutes (i think manual actually says - 2 fan cycles)
turn off engine, check the dipstick within 1 minute time, should be between marks

dry sump engines are different, even I had to learn about how this engine works,

[Knizar]

One other thing. I bought this bike used with 25k on it. It’s been sitting in my 60 degree garage for over a month while I have been working on it. New grips, canisterectomy, etc. I have no idea how much oil is in it because here in the Northeast it hasn’t been riding weather until just now this weekend. Pulling the stick at room temp shows absolutely bone dry. I do know that the girl I bought it from was very picky about having ALL work done at the dealership. She claimed yearly oil changes. Thing is, because I can’t tell how much is in it and haven’t ridden it on a good ride (except a 30 degree 5 mile test ride), I’m a little nervous about “assuming” and going for a full operating temp ride. If it is low, I don’t want to hurt anything. I’m toying with the idea of dropping a stick all the way to the bottom just to verify there is SOME oil in the tank. I figure that as long as there is, that I’ll be ok to do a ride and check it the right way. Does that sound reasonable to you?

How did you get it into your garage when you bought it? If your drove it into your garage and there is NO PUDDLE of oil under it, its GOOD to GO and warm up. Then check the proper way.

[Peter Aawen]

DaniBoy, there's no point in dropping a stick all the way to the bottom of the reservoir to see if there's any oil in there, cos no matter what the oil temperature is now, due to the time that's passed since the last time the engine was shut down, the reservoir may not have ANY oil left in it at all! It may have all drained out & be somewhere in the block, but there's no sump you can access to check!

So, If you don't trust that the oil from when it was last checked & found to be sufficient is still all in there, the ONLY way you can confirm the quantity of oil remaining is sufficient is to drain it all out & measure it...... but even then, you STILL won't get it all out cos it's not up to temp, and you'll probably leave any damaging sludge in the crankcase somewhere anyway!!

So really, your best bet is to just trust that the bike hasn't somehow ruptured its guts & dumped all the oil out, and start it up! If there's sufficient oil in there to run it safely, you'll get good oil pressure and the engine WON'T be shut down like it would if there wasn't enough oil!

Basically, if the engine starts and runs without any warning lights re low oil pressure, then you're good to run it on the road for long enough to get it up to its proper OIL operating temperature; but if you start it & it pretty much straight away shows you an oil warning light &/or shuts down, then it won't have run long enough to do any real damage and you'll know you need to drain whatever oil is left in there; maybe flush it with some gas/a solvent once the oil's all out just to clean things up a bit; then refill it with the correct amount of fresh, on spec oil before riding it any further!

It's simply the nature of these dry sump engines - if you leave it too long after shutting down the engine last to get a good reading, you either hafta trust the lack of evidence of a massive oil leak and just run the damned thing, trusting that the computers will shut it down quickly if there's not enough oil in there; or you hafta drain, measure, & refill with the appropriate quantity of on-spec oil.... Me, I just check the oil level AFTER a ride and then trust the machine & and its computers, but then I know that they can safely run for a couple of minutes without ANY oil in there, and I know the computers won't let these dry sumped wet clutch engines run that long without oil anyway!

So really, just Ride More, and Worry Less! Cos doing anything else is simply not good for you!