Poor MPG with O2 Modifier

[blambert]

Folks,

I am getting poor MPG with a recently installed O2 modifier. I have a hindle exhaust, kewl metal air intake, and power commander all on a 2011 RS Spyder. I use to get 150 mile per tank of gas, now I get 130 mile per tank of gas. I still have the old O2 modifier in my tool box, but before I change back I was to hoping to hear any other suggestions.

Regards,

Bob L.

[jerpinoy]

My ? is, why did you remove your old one in the first place?

[DrewNJ]

You likely don't need the power commander and are running richer than needed.
I'm running an hmf pipe, k@n, blocked purge, and an o2 modifier and my afr is fantastic. Bike runs great.

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[NancysToy]

What did you expect? You installed several mods that will increase the fuel flow to the engine, then you wonder why your mileage dropped. In most cases high performance and superior mileage are opposites...especially if you can't make tuning adjustments to take full advantage of the hardware.

[stewartj239]

Folks,

I am getting poor MPG with a recently installed O2 modifier. I have a hindle exhaust, kewl metal air intake, and power commander all on a 2011 RS Spyder. I use to get 150 mile per tank of gas, now I get 130 mile per tank of gas. I still have the old O2 modifier in my tool box, but before I change back I was to hoping to hear any other suggestions.

Regards,

Bob L.

That sounds correct to me. On the touring bike that my wife and I sold to buy the Spyder, I had to install a PCV to resolve a known FI issue with the bike. Once done, the MPG dropped from 42 to 38, but the bike ran perfect and I was very happy with the results. The PCV typically will make your bike run richer which accounts for the extra fuel consumption. I would say that if your Spyder is running better than it was before the FI module change, then leave it and enjoy it, otherwise, you could switch it back, but what you're seeing is normal.

[blambert]

I put the o2 to help with exhaust popping. When the bike is cold shifting at 6k rpm I get exhaust pop as the bike heats up then exhaust pop goes away.

[ARtraveler]

Performance enhancement mods and good mileage do not seem to go hand in hand. A lot of posts with the type of equipment you mentioned do not seem to enhance mileage.

[Jeriatric]

I put the o2 to help with exhaust popping. When the bike is cold shifting at 6k rpm I get exhaust pop as the bike heats up then exhaust pop goes away.

May not have needed the 02 modifier for popping. Under certain circumstances an exhaust gasket leak can cause popping.fwiw

[BajaRon]

I've never liked the stand alone O2 modifier approach. It's usually a simplistic (though inexpensive) sledge hammer application which simply richens fuel mixture by a certain percentage through the entire spectrum. In many situations it richens the mixture too much causing wasted fuel and, in many cases, engine oil dilution (which is not good).

The Spyder will respond best to an integrated system like the Power Commander with Auto-Tune. While much more expensive, you get a more efficiently result which tailors your fuel mix to the specific need at the time resulting in better power and fuel mileage. You also reduce the risk of engine damage due to an overly rich fuel mixture.

Combining different fuel management systems is usually counter-productive.

[DrewNJ]

I've never liked the stand alone O2 modifier approach. It's usually a simplistic (though inexpensive) sledge hammer application which simply richens fuel mixture by a certain percentage through the entire spectrum. In many situations it richens the mixture too much causing wasted fuel and, in many cases, engine oil dilution (which is not good).

The Spyder will respond best to an integrated system like the Power Commander with Auto-Tune. While much more expensive, you get a more efficiently result which tailors your fuel mix to the specific need at the time resulting in better power and fuel mileage. You also reduce the risk of engine damage due to an overly rich fuel mixture.

Combining different fuel management systems is usually counter-productive.

Ron Ron Ron....that's just SO not true on the Spyder. Far from it actually..... I'm running a stand alone o2 modifier now and have AFR numbers that show otherwise.


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[BajaRon]

Ron Ron Ron....that's just SO not true on the Spyder. Far from it actually..... I'm running a stand alone o2 modifier now and have AFR numbers that show otherwise.


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Well, I'm glad it's working well for you. Which O2 unit did you use and were did you place it in the system?

[DrewNJ]

Just the ole' evoluzion installed in place of the stock o2 sensor. AFR numbers consistent between 12.5-14.5. Mostly in the low-mid 13's

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[DrewNJ]

If it were run on a stock machine it would be rich, but not oil dilution rich. The stock map shoots for a 13.6 outside of the o2 parameters. Open up the exhaust and intake and it puts it dead on. Actually, taking the o2 sensor out of the loop is much better for performance as long as fuel efficiency isn't a concern.

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[blambert]

Drew you getting any reduced mpg when you installed the O2 modifier?

[DrewNJ]

Drew you getting any reduced mpg when you installed the O2 modifier?

Compared to stock? Absolutely!... it's the nature of the beast my friend.....

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[Bob Denman]

Think of the engine as if it's just an air pump...
But keep in mind that the more air you pump through it; the more fuel you'll need to feed it.

It'll make more power, but...
Nothing is free!

[DrewNJ]

But I can still get easily 150+ miles out of a tank of fuel. Light comes on around that 125-130 mile area.

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[blambert]

But I can still get easily 150+ miles out of a tank of fuel. Light comes on around that 125-130 mile area.

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Drew,

Do you get any exhaust backfire when shifting up at 5k RPM or better when the bike is cold? for me then after the bike warms up no more exhaust backfire. That is why I orginally went with the O2 modfier to help with orginal exhaust backfire, I though I was running to lean.

[DrewNJ]

Drew,

Do you get any exhaust backfire when shifting up at 5k RPM or better when the bike is cold? for me then after the bike warms up no more exhaust backfire. That is why I orginally went with the O2 modfier to help with orginal exhaust backfire, I though I was running to lean.

No, none at all. and a good friend running the same setup with the same results.
However, We both run SM machines. We have a friend with an SE who has been battling with popping since day 1 of mods. I have been told by a pretty good source that the SE machines do something the SM machines dont during the shift but haven't spent the time to look into it. Not sure if it's fuel or timing related but I know the SE machines can be a little more stubborn.
Just something to keep in mind if you have an SE.

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[Machinegunner]

Juice Box PRO requires the stock O2 sensor. If you use an O2 modifier with a Powercommander or a Juice Box PRO, you will be too rich. Try your original O2 sensor. The popping on upshifting with the SE is caused by a momentary ignition cut out to enable the shift, this results in raw fuel being sent to the muffler. When the ignition is returned, the fuel ignites causing the bang. The O2 modifier stopped the popping on down shifts. My 2011 RSS with Supertrapp muffler and Juice Box PRO bangs like a rifle on up shifts when cold. Hope this helps.

[Bob Denman]

The popping on upshifting with the SE is caused by a momentary ignition cut out to enable the shift, this results in raw fuel being sent to the muffler. When the ignition is returned, the fuel ignites causing the bang. .

That sure could do it...

[DrewNJ]

So how would more fuel eliminate the poping? Everyone just drowns the pop with additional fuel?

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[blambert]

Juice Box PRO requires the stock O2 sensor. If you use an O2 modifier with a Powercommander or a Juice Box PRO, you will be too rich. Try your original O2 sensor. The popping on upshifting with the SE is caused by a momentary ignition cut out to enable the shift, this results in raw fuel being sent to the muffler. When the ignition is returned, the fuel ignites causing the bang. The O2 modifier stopped the popping on down shifts. My 2011 RSS with Supertrapp muffler and Juice Box PRO bangs like a rifle on up shifts when cold. Hope this helps.

What is then the need or reason for the o2 modifier?

[DrewNJ]

The O2 sensor is for fuel economy only. It tries for an AFR of 14.7. It's like an on/off switch for additional fuel.....back and forth. Looking at a log file it's really inconsistent. However, it is only in the loop when the engine is warmed up, at idle, light throttle cruise, and decel. During acceleration the O2 is ignored.
Other than those areas the ecu reads off the base map and other sensors which is closer to 13.6.
The modifier makes the ecu think the afr is out of range to lean. So the ecu riches things up. But only in the O2 perameters.


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[DrewNJ]

Ideally, the stock system should compensate for mild mods and keep the fueling within range. And it actually does a pretty good job from what I've seen.
I was running an intake and exhaust with no additional fuelling mods and had no issues. Good afr numbers. However, the O2 system on the spyder is really bad and allows for really inconsistent numbers, some of which were leaner than I was comfortable with.
That's why I removed the o2.

You all that are playing with fuelling add ons and not checking afr are playing a dangerous game. You have no clue if your to rich or to lean. And "feel" doesn't work.
Most people drown their machines with fuel.

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