Help....turn signals blinking fast after adding additional LED's - 2014 RT Limited

[Jim&Teresa]

(Update -- fixed this problem thanks to your input! -- see threads for solution -- ended up using a 330 ohm 0.5W resistor for each mirror's LED's)

Hello all...

I had added LED's to the inside of the RT mirrors on my 2012 RT Limited about a year ago -- all went fine and worked perfectly!

Now I have the 2014 RT Limited and am trying to do the exact same thing....guess what...not working like my 2012!! (Fast blinking with turn signals) something has changed!!

Exactly the same LED's I am using and exactly the same wiring tie-in at the mirror wiring for the turn signal....

Here's what's happening:

Emergency flasher working fine

Turn signal works at the slow (correct) rate for 2 blinks and then we go into fast blinking ....OK, so I added some resistors to see if that would work - did not help.

SO.....ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE GREAT!! THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR HELP......

[Chupaca]

what I do know is the leds are pollarity sensetive. There may be some connection that is crossed. Usually a faster blink indicates a burnt out bulb and the flasher unit is incorporated in the consol it looks like it is sensing a problem. I would check the connection power to power ground to ground...

[3 Wheel Addict]

Maybe BRP changed the flaser? Check the part number between the 14 and your older model.

[Scooter]

My 2014 RT has 1,500 miles on it and the breaks squeal when I apply the breaks, WHY, I tried break cleaner, it doesn't work, now what??

[MarkLawson]

I thought I knew something until I went back and reread your original post.

Never mind...

[SPYD3R]

i just installed a 3rd BRAKE LIGHT which is LED on my Tail-Bag-Rack.... i was told that if they blink fast, they are receiving too much electricity and will burn out fast... i'm NO electrician, but it makes sense to me because these draw only micro-amps.... i do know that you can purchase 'resistors' for these things....
my LIGHT was advertised as a 12V unit, so i guess since it will work for a long time...
you can't have enough lights.... good luck...

002.jpg 001.jpg
Dan P
Easley, SC

[Jim&Teresa]

what I do know is the leds are pollarity sensetive. There may be some connection that is crossed. Usually a faster blink indicates a burnt out bulb and the flasher unit is incorporated in the consol it looks like it is sensing a problem. I would check the connection power to power ground to ground...

Thanks for your input. I checked polarity and even reversed to see if that would do anything. Reversing the wiring - LED's don't light at all (regular signals work fine) ....so I think I have polarity correct. Rewired the way I had it and all lights work but go into a fast blinking after initial slow one.

Secondly, I checked all LED bulbs and they all light????

So....I'll wait for more suggestions....appreciate your time to respond to this request.

[Jim&Teresa]

i just installed a 3rd BRAKE LIGHT which is LED on my Tail-Bag-Rack.... i was told that if they blink fast, they are receiving too much electricity and will burn out fast... i'm NO electrician, but it makes sense to me because these draw only micro-amps.... i do know that you can purchase 'resistors' for these things....
my LIGHT was advertised as a 12V unit, so i guess since it will work for a long time...
you can't have enough lights.... good luck...

002.jpg 001.jpg
Dan P
Easley, SC

Thanks for your input on this. It's strange as it's exactly the same LED's I used on my 2012 RT and they worked for a year before I traded up -- no problems at all. I did try the resistor route as well, but to no success. I checked polarity and even another set of LED's from another supplier -- same situation - fast blink. I still have them mounted on the mirrors with hopes I can find a solution....otherwise they come off and then back to basics.....I really liked the LED's on the mirrors facing me to help me know if I left them on -- the dash lights are dim during the day to see that. Thanks for taking time to help.....

[Magdave]

A 300 Ohm resister in line with your power feed to the LEDs will stop the hyperflash. Less than 300 ohms may not work.

[Jim&Teresa]

A 300 Ohm resister in line with your power feed to the LEDs will stop the hyperflash. Less than 300 ohms may not work.

Thank you for your input. Do you recommend a certain wattage? The resistors I used were well under 300 ohms....

Any idea where to get? Thanks!

[Magdave]

Thank you for your input. Do you recommend a certain wattage? The resistors I used were well under 300 ohms....

Any idea where to get? Thanks!

1/2 watt should do(1/4 would do but best to be safe) in series. The amount of leds in the circuit determine the wattage. They make load resisters for this purpose. Radio shack. Some of the forum vendors should have something for you.

http://www.customdynamics.com/led_mo...hting_faqs.htm

[finless]

The flasher will fast flash if:
1) The load is too low like a burned out bulb
2) The load is too high e.g. too many lights.

I just installed the front fender and rear fender lights. I also had done the mirror lights months before.
After having all 3 hooked up I got a fast flash. Resistor did not help either. It's just too much of a load.
I converted the rear fender lights to just riding at full brightness (both wires hooked to riding) and that solved it.

It does sound like they changed the flasher unit in 2014 if it is that sensitive?

FYI, you can get what is called a reverse load device. I think trickled sells them.

Bob

[Magdave]

The flasher will fast flash if:
1) The load is too low like a burned out bulb
2) The load is too high e.g. too many lights.

I just installed the front fender and rear fender lights. I also had done the mirror lights months before.
After having all 3 hooked up I got a fast flash. Resistor did not help either. It's just too much of a load.
I converted the rear fender lights to just riding at full brightness (both wires hooked to riding) and that solved it.

It does sound like they changed the flasher unit in 2014 if it is that sensitive?

FYI, you can get what is called a reverse load device. I think trickled sells them.

Bob

When you get too many leds on the same circuit you need a load resistor to solve that. The hyperflashing is because it thinks a bulb is burnt out because the LED has a different resistance and lower current draw. Just like your car what happens when a bulb burns out? The turn signal hyperflashes.

[finless]

I understand what your saying but as I said too much load also causes it.
Adding a resistor lowers the brightness of the LEDs and if you have to add too much resistance they are too dim.

A little LED knowledge.

Single LEDs have a voltage rating. Some as low as 1 volt and some as high as around 3.5V or more. It varies based on internal resistance.
So if you hook a single LED to 12V it's going to pop. Thus you add a resistor and calculate it correctly so the voltage across the LED is correct.

Now LED strips work a little differently. Lets say each LED is rated at 2.5V. If you hook 5 of these in series the voltage across each then becomes correct. Ohms law V = IR. Now you can hook this strip directly to 12V and not need a resistor as the voltage across each LED is about correct.

So how do you get say 20 LEDs in a strip to work?
Well obviously if you hook 20 in series the voltage across each will be so low they may not even light!
So what you do is hook 4 strips of 5 LEDs in parallel. Now each set of 5 LEDs is correct and all LEDs light the same.

BUT WAIT? Now the current (I) goes up! This can also trigger the flasher unit to fast flash. If current is too high it fast flashes. If it is to low it fast flashes (like a bulb is burned out). Adding a resistor "may not" always fix too high a current draw without dimming the LEDs beyond what is useful. Again this is why some make a reverse load device to solve this (it's basically another flasher in the circuit powered by another 12V line).

I mean think about it. You can't continue to keep adding as many lights as you want as power is needed to drive them. Go too much and the flasher freaks out. Yes in general a resistor can help but sometimes depending on what your doing, you cant get there with just a voltage drop across a resistor.

Bob

[Jim&Teresa]

1/2 watt should do(1/4 would do but best to be safe) in series. The amount of leds in the circuit determine the wattage. They make load resisters for this purpose. Radio shack. Some of the forum vendors should have something for you.

http://www.customdynamics.com/led_mo...hting_faqs.htm

Hello,

I just wanted to personally "thank you" for your help AND solution to this issue. Went to my local Radio Shack and purchased 330 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors ....WORKED GREAT!

Wow.....amazing how easy once you know....I should have been a "sparky" Electrical Engineer....(I'm a retired Mechanical Engineer -- enough said!! )

Again, thank you and all who participated to educate me on what to do....I still wonder why this is different than my 2012 RT?? That system did not require me to add the resistors.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

JL, if the wiring on the 14 RT is like it is on the 13 RT you may be screwed. According to the wiring diagram there is no automotive type flasher used. At least I don't find anything like an automotive flasher in the service manual. The flashing is controlled by the cluster, which means it's all solid state and computer controlled. It's possible the settings in the algorithms for the allowable range of current draw is so narrow you won't be able to add any significant additional load without upsetting the cluster computer.

I just saw your post that you got it fixed. Great! I'm posting this anyway just for general info.

[Jim&Teresa]

JL, if the wiring on the 14 RT is like it is on the 13 RT you may be screwed. According to the wiring diagram there is no automotive type flasher used. At least I don't find anything like an automotive flasher in the service manual. The flashing is controlled by the cluster, which means it's all solid state and computer controlled. It's possible the settings in the algorithms for the allowable range of current draw is so narrow you won't be able to add any significant additional load without upsetting the cluster computer.

I just saw your post that you got it fixed. Great! I'm posting this anyway just for general info.

Thanks....I was wondering if the "flasher" went totally electronic and was buried somewhere....so I did NOT even want to go there.

If these simple options would have not worked, I would have waited until someone posted a solution. Magdave's resistor solution worked for me.

Thanks for your post.....

[SgtStriker]

just remember -- the 14 has an alternator and the previous has a magneto-- just saying!!

[viperryder]

This sounds just like when you have a car and add a trailer. The turn signals blink very fast. It is caused by an overload of the circuit. By adding a stronger blinker control, the signals become the same as they were before adding the extra LED'S. I don't know if this is the problem or not. Hope this helps.

[jwulf74]

Not sure how the computer would read it, but sounds like another job for a relay if you want to tie a bunch of stuff in the blinker. Run the relay off of the blinker wires and the led off the relay and you should be able to add all you want.

So long as the relay plays nice with the computer that is...

[Magdave]

I understand what your saying but as I said too much load also causes it.
Adding a resistor lowers the brightness of the LEDs and if you have to add too much resistance they are too dim.

A little LED knowledge.

Single LEDs have a voltage rating. Some as low as 1 volt and some as high as around 3.5V or more. It varies based on internal resistance.
So if you hook a single LED to 12V it's going to pop. Thus you add a resistor and calculate it correctly so the voltage across the LED is correct.

Now LED strips work a little differently. Lets say each LED is rated at 2.5V. If you hook 5 of these in series the voltage across each then becomes correct. Ohms law V = IR. Now you can hook this strip directly to 12V and not need a resistor as the voltage across each LED is about correct.

So how do you get say 20 LEDs in a strip to work?
Well obviously if you hook 20 in series the voltage across each will be so low they may not even light!
So what you do is hook 4 strips of 5 LEDs in parallel. Now each set of 5 LEDs is correct and all LEDs light the same.

BUT WAIT? Now the current (I) goes up! This can also trigger the flasher unit to fast flash. If current is too high it fast flashes. If it is to low it fast flashes (like a bulb is burned out). Adding a resistor "may not" always fix too high a current draw without dimming the LEDs beyond what is useful. Again this is why some make a reverse load device to solve this (it's basically another flasher in the circuit powered by another 12V line).

I mean think about it. You can't continue to keep adding as many lights as you want as power is needed to drive them. Go too much and the flasher freaks out. Yes in general a resistor can help but sometimes depending on what your doing, you cant get there with just a voltage drop across a resistor.

Bob

In your example you would require a load resistor for multiple sets. Simplest way to solve that issue is with a isolation relay to a fuse block that drives your additions.. In parallel ckts the resistance total actually drops as 1/R1+ 1/R2+1/R3 and take the reciprocal of that total to determine the RT. For example 2, 3 ohm resistors in parallel will give you a 1.5 ohm RT. In series that would be 6 ohms.

[Bob Denman]

330 ohm; 1/2 wat...
Thanks for this info!
I'm pretty much set on getting "authorization" for this modification too!

[rick_w]

330 ohm; 1/2 wat...
Thanks for this info!
I'm pretty much set on getting "authorization" for this modification too!

We have sold a lot of the TricLed Mirror LED's. Not one problem with the 2010 to 2012's.
The 2013 and 2014 will flash somewhat faster, BRP did change something starting in 2013.
The stock Turn Signals are LED's and the Flasher circuit is looking a low current draw not high like on a standard motorcycle.
The statement above is correct, you will need a current limiting resistor in line with the new Mirror LED's, very easy to do, if you want to slow it down.
The 330 ohm half watt resistors will work for most. If you have other LED's going on also up front with a Full LED Illumination Modules with Blinker (pr), you may have to use the 470 ohm resistors instead. We used the 470 in our 2013 RT. They are still very bright using either the 330 or 470 Ohm resistors. Just solder them in.
Rick

[Magdave]

We have sold a lot of the TricLed Mirror LED's. Not one problem with the 2010 to 2012's.
The 2013 and 2014 will flash somewhat faster, BRP did change something starting in 2013.
The stock Turn Signals are LED's and the Flasher circuit is looking a low current draw not high like on a standard motorcycle.
The statement above is correct, you will need a current limiting resistor in line with the new Mirror LED's, very easy to do, if you want to slow it down.
The 330 ohm half watt resistors will work for most. If you have other LED's going on also up front with a Full LED Illumination Modules with Blinker (pr), you may have to use the 470 ohm resistors. We used the 470 in our 2013 RT. They are still very bright using either the 330 or 470 Ohm resistors. Just solder them in.
Rick

Thanks for confirming my advice.

[spyder-dude]

My friend has a 2010 and just put on the LED turn signals and they are having the same issue. Do you have an example of what ohm resister that he would need? Like a link from one online and then I can look locally for him?

Thanks,

Shawn