fan reversal

[jwulf74]

Thanks jcthorne. That does look like a better switch option. When the weather gets a bit warmer I think I may give this a shot.

1 single degree here today...

[Bob Denman]

We've got twenty more than that here... Do you wnat me to fax you some of them?

[Jeriatric]

We've got twenty more than that here... Do you wnat me to fax you some of them?

Cloudy and 63.....we can spare a few too.

[Bob Denman]

Only 63? Go put a sweater on before you catch a cold!
That reminds me....
Degrees (Fahrenheit)
* 65F Hawaiians declare a two-blanket night
* 60F Californians put on sweaters (if they can find one)
* 50F Miami residents turn on the heat
* 45F Vermont residents go to outdoor concerts
* 40F You can see your breath. Californians shiver uncontrollably. Minnesotans go swimming
* 35F Italian cars don't start
* 32F Water freezes
* 30F You plan your vacation to Australia
* 25F Ohio water freezes; Californians weep pitiably; Minnesotans eat ice cream;
Canadians go swimming
* 20F Politicians begin to talk about the homeless; New York City water freezes;
Miami residents plan vacation further South
* 15F French cars don't start. Cat insists on sleeping in your bed with you
* 10F You need jumper cables to get the car going
* 5F American cars don't start
* 0F Alaskans put on T-shirts
* -10 German cars don't start; Eyes freeze shut when you blink.
* -15 You can cut your breath and use it to build an igloo; Arkansans stick tongue on metal objects; Miami residents cease to exist.
* -20 Cat insists on sleeping in pajamas with you. Politicians actually do something about the homeless. Minnesotans shovel snow off roof. Japanese cars don't start
* -25 Too cold to think. You need jumper cables to get the driver going.
* -30 You plan a two week hot bath; Swedish cars don't start.
* -40 Californians disappear. Minnesotans button top button. Canadians put on sweaters. Your car helps you plan your trip South.
* -50 Congressional hot air freezes. Alaskans close the bathroom window.
* -80 Hell freezes over. Polar bears move South.
* -90 Lawyers put their hands in their own pockets.

[AbNormy]

78' sunny here in Austin Taxless

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

[jwulf74]

Relays.jpg

OK, here is my updated schematic...I think this will do it unless anyone has additional input. seems like it should be nice and clean.

the one box should read:

Air pressure switch has NO and NC connections… NC would always run the fan in reverse and when pressure is up from driving it will run normal . It can be set fairly light it appears.

[jcthorne]

Relays.jpg

OK, here is my updated schematic...I think this will do it unless anyone has additional input. seems like it should be nice and clean.

the one box should read:

Air pressure switch has NO and NC connections… NC would always run the fan in reverse and when pressure is up from driving it will run normal . It can be set fairly light it appears.

I think you have a working plan. Do you plan to order this stuff and give it a try? I do, but it may be a while before I can get to another project.

[Jeriatric]

I still think the simplest solution is a momentary contact switch, It will only run in reverse whiIe your thumb is on the button that way.

In stop and go traffic when the fan would be running in thumb switch reverse. The moment you lifted your thumb the fan would continue to spin In the reversed direction(for at least a second or two). So with your thumb now lifted and the fan continueing to spin in reverse. It would be be hit with a flow of juice to spin the opposite direction. Seems to me that may work once or twice but at some point somethings going to fail.

You are correct, but then why fix the problem with a 2 dollar switch and a ten minute fix with when you can do it 200 dollars of electronics and weeks of development?

Sometimes it costs a little more to get it right. Two hundred seems excessive. Unless, it was a BRP fix. Then a person could expect it to be redicuosly expensive.

[StanProff]

In stop and go traffic when the fan would be running in thumb switch reverse. The moment you lifted your thumb the fan would continue to spin In the reversed direction(for at least a second or two). So with your thumb now lifted and the fan continueing to spin in reverse. It would be be hit with a flow of juice to spin the opposite direction. Seems to me that may work once or twice but at some point somethings going to fail.



Sometimes it costs a little more to get it right. Two hundred seems excessive. Unless, it was a BRP fix. Then a person could expect it to be redicuosly expensive.

how a bout a rocker switch with off in the middle. flip it off for a few seconds then back on in the other direction. Or maybe just a solid state time delay to give the fan time to stop before it reverses direction.

[Bob Denman]

Let the thing slow down and stop, before "pouring the coal" to it!!

[jwulf74]

I think you have a working plan. Do you plan to order this stuff and give it a try? I do, but it may be a while before I can get to another project.

Yep, I think in a month or two. temperature and other projects are a factor here too.

[jwulf74]

In stop and go traffic when the fan would be running in thumb switch reverse. The moment you lifted your thumb the fan would continue to spin In the reversed direction(for at least a second or two). So with your thumb now lifted and the fan continueing to spin in reverse. It would be be hit with a flow of juice to spin the opposite direction. Seems to me that may work once or twice but at some point somethings going to fail.



Sometimes it costs a little more to get it right. Two hundred seems excessive. Unless, it was a BRP fix. Then a person could expect it to be redicuosly expensive.

The air pressure switch in my diagram could be replaced with any similar manual switch. I like this route as it is automatic. I stumbled upon Gundam's pics where he did use some different relays and a couple of manual switches but haven't heard how it is working for him.

The parts for mine, with a little searching, I can get for around $75 not including shipping.

[jwulf74]

how a bout a rocker switch with off in the middle. flip it off for a few seconds then back on in the other direction. Or maybe just a solid state time delay to give the fan time to stop before it reverses direction.

hmm... I may had to noodle the delay over a bit...I can see where if the fan is running and you come up to a stop or stopped and you start moving it could suddenly want to switch which would probably not be good for the fan motor.... well, back to Google!

[Bob Denman]

Good Luck; I hope that you find what you need!

[jwulf74]

Relays.jpg

Well, I only found 1 automotive grade delay on timer... several non-automotive grade... Adds about $60 to the project, but it should adequately protect the fan.

Parts List:
Cole Hersee Relay 24452
Cole Hersee Cover 97297
1 complete set of Delphi connectors (1205792 & 3 and pins and seals)
Wolsentech TDR-P (need 2)
Cleveland Controls NS2-0000-01 air pressure switch
Cleveland Controls Universal Air Flow Sample Probe & Tubing Kit 60681-010

If anyone comes across a less expensive automotive grade delay on relay, please post a link...these listed are about $30 each...

[Gundam]

DSC_0052.jpgDSC_0049.jpgDSC_0051.jpg1389406709743.jpg1389406696032.jpg.... due to the Chinese New Year celebrations, where we pay respect to both the living and the dead, one's usually quite busy during this period.... so far my system is up and running well without the air flow switch, just need to remember to switch back to normal fan direction mode when heading out of town.... the components needed for my system is just one DPDT relay (for reversing fan direction), one SPDT ON-OFF-ON rocker switch (for override-normal-reverse mode respectively), one SPDT relay (for a key switched power supply), one 30A fuse holder (for override continuous mode) and also appropriate grade of wirings and wire connectors.... and also of course the air flow switch to be fitted later, I have problems getting the switch, so most probably I will be making one using a micro switch.... I have also observed the fan changing directions immediately with no visible strain nor abnormal noise but I may also install a delay timer for longevity of the fan.... above are some pictures...

[Magdave]

And what does the temp read when reversed?

[Jeriatric]

Not to be an alarmist. Just thinking out loud here. Using anything that requires manual operation comes with a potential for operator error. Operator error of the cooling system could/may well cause potential warranty issues if anything was to go wrong that directly relates to that system. Again, just thinking out loud but, it seems to me whatever design anyone decides to put in place needs to be as fail safe as possible to avoid ANY potential warranty issues. Just a thought.

[Bob Denman]

There won't be a warranty issue, because every proposed system still requires "hacking" into the wiring...
Face it boys; if you dance this dance... you'll be doing it alone!
Nothing is foolproof anyway... My folks were figuring on a doctor or a lawyer, and they ended up with me!

[jcthorne]

Relays.jpg

Well, I only found 1 automotive grade delay on timer... several non-automotive grade... Adds about $60 to the project, but it should adequately protect the fan.

Parts List:
Cole Hersee Relay 24452
Cole Hersee Cover 97297
1 complete set of Delphi connectors (1205792 & 3 and pins and seals)
Wolsentech TDR-P (need 2)
Cleveland Controls NS2-0000-01 air pressure switch
Cleveland Controls Universal Air Flow Sample Probe & Tubing Kit 60681-010

If anyone comes across a less expensive automotive grade delay on relay, please post a link...these listed are about $30 each...

Wish I knew what the load was from the fan. These Time delay relays are rated 10A continuous. Using one of the TDR-P and one of the TDR-MF could control the fan directly with out the need of the cole hersee relay if the load is under 10A. Also, since these are build to order relays, you might inquire with the company if they could supply a 30A version for fan control.





Alternatively, here is a 30A TDR:

http://retro-solutions.net/product-i...ay-pid602.html

They are $15 each and using a pair would no longer require the Cole Hersee relay.

[Jeriatric]

There won't be a warranty issue, because ever proposed system still requires "hacking" into the wiring...
Face it boys; if you dance this dance... you'll be doing it alone!
Nothing is foolproof anyway... My folks were figuring on a doctor or a lawyer, and they ended up with me!

Hacking....really?

There's a big difference between fool proof and doing ones best to think things through in order to reach the best possible end result.

The only reason we are having to dance alone Is because the person who brought us to the party is ignoring us. Any idea who that may be? Hint....it begins with a B and ends with a P.

All my best to your folks

[jcthorne]

There won't be a warranty issue, because every proposed system still requires "hacking" into the wiring...
Face it boys; if you dance this dance... you'll be doing it alone!
Nothing is foolproof anyway... My folks were figuring on a doctor or a lawyer, and they ended up with me!

The proposed solution is plug n play using factory style connectors. No hacking or cutting involved on the factory harness.

[Magdave]

Wish I knew what the load was from the fan. These Time delay relays are rated 10A continuous. Using one of the TDR-P and one of the TDR-MF could control the fan directly with out the need of the cole hersee relay if the load is under 10A. Also, since these are build to order relays, you might inquire with the company if they could supply a 30A version for fan control.





Alternatively, here is a 30A TDR:

http://retro-solutions.net/product-i...ay-pid602.html

They are $15 each and using a pair would no longer require the Cole Hersee relay.

It is not hard to find out with a VOM and a jumper wire.

[jwulf74]

Wish I knew what the load was from the fan. These Time delay relays are rated 10A continuous. Using one of the TDR-P and one of the TDR-MF could control the fan directly with out the need of the cole hersee relay if the load is under 10A. Also, since these are build to order relays, you might inquire with the company if they could supply a 30A version for fan control.


Alternatively, here is a 30A TDR:

http://retro-solutions.net/product-i...ay-pid602.html

They are $15 each and using a pair would no longer require the Cole Hersee relay.

Thanks for the tip on that relay. wonder why it didn't appear in Google when I looked... We could eliminate the Cole Hersee if the other TDR's delay both the 87 and 87a terminals... not sure if they do or not though. When I get into testing I could try it first I suppose.

I am also thinking about adding 2-3 LED's to show Fan On, Fan Forward, and Fan Reverse. Not sure where I would mount them yet though.

Keep the ideas coming. I think we have several viable ideas all of which will be correct and just depends on end-user preference.

[jcthorne]

Thanks for the tip on that relay. wonder why it didn't appear in Google when I looked... We could eliminate the Cole Hersee if the other TDR's delay both the 87 and 87a terminals... not sure if they do or not though. When I get into testing I could try it first I suppose.

I am also thinking about adding 2-3 LED's to show Fan On, Fan Forward, and Fan Reverse. Not sure where I would mount them yet though.

Keep the ideas coming. I think we have several viable ideas all of which will be correct and just depends on end-user preference.

The time delay is in the switching circuit. Apply 12v to the trigger input, 10 seconds later the relay switches. Remove 12v from the trigger it switches back with no delay. Either the NO (87) or NC (87a) contact will be closed at all times except for the split second during the contact moving. They are break before make though. Unfortunatly I do not think we have gotten any simpler or cheaper as the circuit would need four of them as they are single pole and both pos and neg lines need to be switched in this reversing application. Or two of them with the Cole Hersee relay.