waiting for a call

[Dan McNally]

I probably shouldn't get into this discussion since I own an RS model... but correct me if I'm wrong: Either these 2013 RT's ST's etc. with high heat problems aren't getting rid of the engine heat efficiently (causing a potentially damaging or dangerous buildup of heat inside the body panels), or the engine is producing more heat than it aught to (overwhelming the cooling system... not just the radiator but the entire system of expelling heat from within the body panels of the machine). The different models of Spyder have (up to 2013 at least) all used the same 2 cylinder 998cc Rotax engine as I understand it, but the ecm programming is different from the RS model line (which basically has no significant heat issues). Thus the engine is tuned and runs a little different across the model lines.

So anyway... why is this so hard to figure out what the problem is and how to resolve it? There's only 2 possible pathways to the fault. The very idea of a boiling gas tank is freaky scary IMHO... gas fumes are prone to explode, I think everybody knows this! If BRP engineers are unable to reproduce the problems people are having, they aught to at least be able to get a sample of problem Spyders from individual owners to test for themselves and figure it out. Or am I totally off base here?

This is nothing like trying to figure out why a Space Shuttle exploded on lift-off or disintegrated on re-entry for example... if it cannot be reproduced on test machines BRP has pulled from the line, then sounds like there are plenty of problem machines they could get their hands on to test and figure this out and solve the bloody problem finally.

Absolutely no offense to anybody intended. I love my Spyder and hope for a very long relationship with it!

ps. Getting angry with the OP for paraphrasing his telephone conversation with the BRP rep is totally uncalled for!

- Michael

There appear to be different symptoms on different 2013 RTs . . . which is probably the reason BRP is having difficulty in developing a universal fix. Mine never ran hot with regard to the engine temperature as reflected on the temperature gauge, unless I was stuck in traffic on a very hot day . . . so I avoid traffic. But, with the temperature gauge at 4 bars, my master cylinder, parking brake cable, and charcoal canister all showed signs of melting, and the parking brake cable started binding up and sticking. My gas tank would boil if half full or less . . . but the temp gauge would still only be 4 bars. I also received 1st degree burns through blue jeans on my thighs where heat came up under the seat, through the hole in the body where the seat lock goes. It was like a chimney . . . too hot to touch. I never had the "hotfoot" issue, though. But other 2013 RTs had none of these problems. BRP needs to fix this, but before they can, they need to discover why it only happens on some, and not all 2013s . . . and then, before a widespread fielding of the solution, they need to KNOW that it does fix the problem . . . as they are a business engaged in earning a profit. They owe that to their stockholders. I'm sure they will resolve it . . . and, in the meantime, since it is COLD where I live, right now, I get to ride without the heat problems . . . in fact, the warm seat feels good in the winter. Once they fix the issue, I may go for a heated seat!

[Michael211_2000]

Well that being the case, then there must be more than 1 fault and it'll take multiple solutions to fix them. There are still only 2 pathways to these faults. If BRP cannot reproduce the faults with off the line new 2013 machines they already have on hand, then they need to get hold of some used machines that are exhibiting these problems and find out why and put out fixes. It only makes sense, doesn't it?

All of them came off the same assembly line put together by the same workers with the same parts, there may be a quality control problem with some of the parts or training issues with some of the workers responsible for the assembling of machines with excessive heat problems. Boiling gas tanks, fumes pouring out of the machine when parked in an enclosed space... good grief that's just stupid-scary IMHO!

Pulling new machines (2013 machines, that is) from the line for testing would be totally hit-n-miss as to whether the faults can be reproduced or not. Pull 5 new unused 2013 machines, test them out, there's a high probability that not one of them will exhibit the problems owners are reporting... am I right?



As a software developer I can honestly say that I suck at testing my own code, I *know* how it's supposed to work that makes me a bad tester. Yeah I can fix bugs when found and it's AMAZING what some people do with the software I create they try stuff I'd never have thought of and break the software... sometimes if described to me well enough I can reproduce the problem so I can fix it in my "clean" copy of the code and then re-issue the program, other times the user ends up having to zip and e-mail me their entire sofware package so I can see what's happened to it find the bug then fix it and re-issue the program. Sounds like BRP needs to do the latter and get it's hands on real used 2013 machines that have these problems so they can get to the bottom of what's going on with them.

JMHO as someone experienced is fixing problems in something I create for others for a living.

- Michael

[3 Wheel Addict]

I think cuznjohn was the only one with the heat problems "and" a hot running engine. Mine never got to more than half way on the temp gauge and I never felt that the engine was over heated in any way yet I still get the extreme heat under the Tupperware. Never had any fuel drips on the ground but have had serious fuel smell, not so bad now but still on occasion.

[cuznjohn]

I think cuznjohn was the only one with the heat problems "and" a hot running engine. Mine never got to more than half way on the temp gauge and I never felt that the engine was over heated in any way yet I still get the extreme heat under the Tupperware. Never had any fuel drips on the ground but have had serious fuel smell, not so bad now but still on occasion.

i am sure my bike is not the only one. we have done poles and plenty of comments about the issue. do a search and see how many heat problems were talked about on the site. i might be the most vocal about it, not really sure but one or 2 bikes burnt up and people talked about melting parts and wrapping pipes and gas tanks, so if you never read the posts on that and only read mine, than i can see why you think it is only me

[Bob Denman]

You do YELL a lot...
That's okay... sometimes it takes a squeaky wheel, before anybody notices that the grease gun is missing...

[flamingobabe]

I offered to ride the bike to Quebec for BRP to test....they snickered at me....on my bike...kudos to the cooling system...never shows any higher than 5 bars...but codes say it was hot...BRP is welcome to test my bike I have very similar problems as Hayfield.....except I hav 150 degrees at gas cap, after insulation to tank and after about 3 or so gas tanks on a trip the gas won't go in until it rest for a couple of minutes...I've already had to replace spark plug wires for the rear was falling apart...I bet due to heat...BRP does not like talking to me...they don't know how to help me...they give me some guy that I know more about the mechanics of the spyder than they do...I have to explain...I want someone smarter than me...Oh yeah...I'm on a trip now to Carlsbad, NM...have not had to use the heated seat because the heat that pours out from under the seat works just fine

Well that being the case, then there must be more than 1 fault and it'll take multiple solutions to fix them. There are still only 2 pathways to these faults. If BRP cannot reproduce the faults with off the line new 2013 machines they already have on hand, then they need to get hold of some used machines that are exhibiting these problems and find out why and put out fixes. It only makes sense, doesn't it?

All of them came off the same assembly line put together by the same workers with the same parts, there may be a quality control problem with some of the parts or training issues with some of the workers responsible for the assembling of machines with excessive heat problems. Boiling gas tanks, fumes pouring out of the machine when parked in an enclosed space... good grief that's just stupid-scary IMHO!

Pulling new machines (2013 machines, that is) from the line for testing would be totally hit-n-miss as to whether the faults can be reproduced or not. Pull 5 new unused 2013 machines, test them out, there's a high probability that not one of them will exhibit the problems owners are reporting... am I right?



As a software developer I can honestly say that I suck at testing my own code, I *know* how it's supposed to work that makes me a bad tester. Yeah I can fix bugs when found and it's AMAZING what some people do with the software I create they try stuff I'd never have thought of and break the software... sometimes if described to me well enough I can reproduce the problem so I can fix it in my "clean" copy of the code and then re-issue the program, other times the user ends up having to zip and e-mail me their entire sofware package so I can see what's happened to it find the bug then fix it and re-issue the program. Sounds like BRP needs to do the latter and get it's hands on real used 2013 machines that have these problems so they can get to the bottom of what's going on with them.

JMHO as someone experienced is fixing problems in something I create for others for a living.

- Michael

[jaherbst]

I can live with the heat on the highway, it's the heat at stop signs/lights in town with the incredible overwhelming gas fumes. I think breathing the gas fumes is a hazard to my health. Same happens when I park in the garage. I don't dare close the garage door for an hour for fear of an explosion. ( no I do not over fill when fueling) I think it is the boiling gas from overheat that overflows from expansion of the gas into the cannister.This needs an immediate recall fix before our health is ruined by breathing the gas fumes or "god forbid" someone parks in a closed garage and looses their life from an explosion. GAS FUMES AND BOILING GAS IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN ACCEPTED OR SAFE BY ANY STANDARDS. I would hope BRP is reading these posts and not drop the ball for those of us who have already bought their product.

[charles4690]

I can live with the heat on the highway, it's the heat at stop signs/lights in town with the incredible overwhelming gas fumes. I think breathing the gas fumes is a hazard to my health. Same happens when I park in the garage. I don't dare close the garage door for an hour for fear of an explosion. ( no I do not over fill when fueling) I think it is the boiling gas from overheat that overflows from expansion of the gas into the cannister.This needs an immediate recall fix before our health is ruined by breathing the gas fumes or "god forbid" someone parks in a closed garage and looses their life from an explosion. GAS FUMES AND BOILING GAS IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN ACCEPTED OR SAFE BY ANY STANDARDS. I would hope BRP is reading these posts and not drop the ball for those of us who have already bought their product.

I have all of the same issues. Spyder runs really hot and has fumes. I have sent four messages to BRP through their website. I have not received any return contact or acknowledgement from them. Just don't understand why.

[Magdave]

I have all of the same issues. Spyder runs really hot and has fumes. I have sent four messages to BRP through their website. I have not received any return contact or acknowledgement from them. Just don't understand why.

Join the club. We have meetings on Friday night at a place called "the bar".They don't answer many email so call them and get a case number.888.272.9222 I am going to try something new after my next ride and that is remove the gas cap and put it back on to see if it is under pressure and release it. I can see the fumes spewing out underneath like the heat off the road mirage effect from the overflow hose.

[RBS66]

Join the club. We have meetings on Friday night at a place called "the bar".They don't answer many email so call them and get a case number.888.272.9222 I am going to try something new after my next ride and that is remove the gas cap and put it back on to see if it is under pressure and release it. I can see the fumes spewing out underneath like the heat off the road mirage effect from the overflow hose.

My dealer where I purchased my bike from told me to do that with the cap after a ride. I am not sure if it helped. One time I stopped for gas on a hot day on the way home. I Had a hard time filling up pump just kept shutting off till some cold gas got in the tank and cooled things off.

[3 Wheel Addict]

i am sure my bike is not the only one. we have done poles and plenty of comments about the issue. do a search and see how many heat problems were talked about on the site. i might be the most vocal about it, not really sure but one or 2 bikes burnt up and people talked about melting parts and wrapping pipes and gas tanks, so if you never read the posts on that and only read mine, than i can see why you think it is only me

That was not meant to slam you in any way but I thought on some of your posts you said that your temp gauge was in the red or near the top all the time. A lot of us have "normal" engine temps and still have the heat issues.

[cuznjohn]

That was not meant to slam you in any way but I thought on some of your posts you said that your temp gauge was in the red or near the top all the time. A lot of us have "normal" engine temps and still have the heat issues.

my temp does ride high that's why i did the mods to the bike. but my mods will only relieve the heat off my foot. the motor will still run hot at a stop or slow speed

[Ramjet]

I think those of us who have the heat issues or as I like to refer to as :heat containment system are not complaining just to complain.

Think about this short term you have guys with melted brake cylinders, wires that baked and hoses baked. I suspect most of the Spyders suffer from these to some degree but those who never go under the hood so to speak have no idea. I purchased this machine in hopes I could get the same miles from it that i would get from a car of equivalent costs. That is not an unreasonable expectation.

Again IF BRP does not come to the table soon like before spring legal action is warranted. Till then I will try and open up the Heat Containment System so that the contained heat can move out from under the plastic.

What does not help is folks who basically say we are wrong or embellishing about the heat issues or that the heat issues are only on a few of the machines....I think they will also suffer in the long term those who stick there head in the sand will find out that the damage is done on their machine hard brittle hoses and melted parts.

[Vrooom]

Brp knows what the problems are and that is why the 2014 model is different. They and their stockholders can laugh all the way to the stock market since the 2013's are already sold and in the hands of individuals without the power to change the status quo. They also have projected and know the real problems won't show up until after the warranty limits, since overheating is a gradual parts destroyer. Ok, that's my latest 2 cents worth, and I sure hope I'm wrong since I own a 13, too. I hope Brp will step up as straight shooting conglomerate and act the way good guys do in the movies, but I do tend to be an optimist.

[OJ UK]

Brp knows what the problems are and that is why the 2014 model is different.

And that is simply not true. Sounds good but not true nor indeed possible.
Reason?
The 1330 triple motor configured for the Spyder with a new six speed transmission has been 'in the works' being developed for a couple
of years if not longer.
The motor has seen the light of day in other BRP machines but will have had to be significantly re-designed for use in the Spyder.
So you have the new transmissions (Semi-auto and manual six speed boxes) plus an entirely new cooling system running a pair
of radiators plus significant changes to the chassis and running gear. The 2014 is a new, from the ground up, machine with very few functional
parts remaining the same as on previous machines.
What you are in fact implying is that BRP saw some of the failings in the 2013 model after it was released and in the space of just a few months
designed a new machine and tooled up the factory to produce it. I'm sorry but design, development, re-tooling and ordering new ancilliaries
from the other companies which supply components, like all of the new body panels, takes a lot longer than what you are suggesting.

[MouthPiece]

And that is simply not true. Sounds good but not true nor indeed possible.
Reason?
The 1330 triple motor configured for the Spyder with a new six speed transmission has been 'in the works' being developed for a couple
of years if not longer.
The motor has seen the light of day in other BRP machines but will have had to be significantly re-designed for use in the Spyder.
So you have the new transmissions (Semi-auto and manual six speed boxes) plus an entirely new cooling system running a pair
of radiators plus significant changes to the chassis and running gear. The 2014 is a new, from the ground up, machine with very few functional
parts remaining the same as on previous machines.
What you are in fact implying is that BRP saw some of the failings in the 2013 model after it was released and in the space of just a few months
designed a new machine and tooled up the factory to produce it. I'm sorry but design, development, re-tooling and ordering new ancilliaries
from the other companies which supply components, like all of the new body panels, takes a lot longer than what you are suggesting.

Your post is "on the money".

Chris

[Bob Denman]

The triple was under development and testing long before the 2013 debacle appeared...
And BRP still continues to investigate solutions!

[spyderbirds]

Hoping these newest updates will help out these issues on the 13 models.
INFO HERE

[3 Wheel Addict]

I'm pretty sure the 13 RT's were suppose to get the 1330 motor but there was a delay so the V1000 went back in. We (13 RT owners) have got the 14 frame if you want to look at the big picture. There have been reports of defective spark plug wires floating around as well as defective front shocks. From this latest "fix" for the 13's this could be the answer to part of the heat problems or maybe all of it? Clearly they have had some issues with water intrusion of the fuse boxes and that has most likely be causing grief for some folks but you don't here about that on the forum? (anybody had that issue) At this point I'm just happy that they came forward with any kind of fix so were not left in the dark.

[JkRbbt]

I agree with 3-wheel. I don't know if we '13 folks were supposed to get the '14 motor or not, but we sure as heck got the frame, wheels, brakes… along with the '12 innards. I am glad that the '14 was "years in the planning" and hopefully everything will work as planned, but someone forgot the same due diligence for the '13 or they wouldn't have the problem they have had. I hope the latest "fix" for the '13 is an answer and not another band aide. Then we can come out from under the cloud!

[Bob Denman]

It's mad you all feel a bit like... images.jpg

[cuznjohn]

why is it that i have heat and some don't, now should all 13 owners have the update or just the ones that have heat. if your bike is running good and you don't have heat will you do the update on the bike or just leave well enough alone. do you think that the update will give the bike and parts a longer life span. all the bikes came off the same assembly line and the same software so why is there a difference in bikes.

[Bob Denman]

I would certainly think it wise for ALL 2013 bikes to take advantage of these updates; heat issues, or not!

[Sarge707]

I agree with 3-wheel. I don't know if we '13 folks were supposed to get the '14 motor or not, but we sure as heck got the frame, wheels, brakes… along with the '12 innards. I am glad that the '14 was "years in the planning" and hopefully everything will work as planned, but someone forgot the same due diligence for the '13 or they wouldn't have the problem they have had. I hope the latest "fix" for the '13 is an answer and not another band aide. Then we can come out from under the cloud!

It has been posted that Much of the problem was preparing the Frame a Year in advance to ease the transition to the 2014 engine. This has apparently backfired and the owners who paid Hard Earned $$ (Or who are still making payments for a Spyder they can,t or hate to ride) are the ones who are suffering daily!!! Its just Not right!

[JKMSPYDER]

Right Bob! The bulletin said ALL 2013 ST and RT owners. I called my dealer yesterday and made him aware of the bulletin. He said he would have to order the new fuse covers and would let me know when they come in. But I won't make an appt. until it gets 45 degrees or above.