Oil and oil filters

[MikeinGA]

If it was stuck to the magnet it is not a copper crush washer. It is hard to tell from the picture, but it doesn't look like a piece of a thread, it looks more like a piece of a thrust washer. There are several in the transmission. The remainder was probably ground up or is jammed in the engine/transmission. I would be worried if it were mine. If your Spyder is still on warranty it is time to see the dealer. If not, you may get quite a few more miles before something happens, or it may never fail completely...or something could happen quite suddenly. One thing for sure, if you choose to continue to ride, use the best oil you can...it may prolong the life of your tranny.

The half round wire looks like a wire that raps around the needle cage. The wire is used to hold the needle bearings in the cage during assembly of the transmission, when putting in the pinion gear and when finished the half round wire is thrown away and in your case it was thrown. I have seen this wire before on friends 2011 RT when he changed his oil in my garage and his RT had over 20,000 miles on it. Don't worry be happy and ride without worry. That's IMHO.


Mike

[dizzyspots]

re: the Castrol Oil choice...on the Advanced Auto link...if you click on specifications...it specifically states NO under both ATV and motorcycle??

[dizzyspots]

API Service Category:SNATV:NoContainer Size:32 ozContainer Type:Plastic quart containerConventional:NoDetergent or Non-Detergent:Non-detergentDiesel Engines:NoHigh Mileage:NoMotorcycle:NoRace Only:NoSynthetic Blend:NoSynthetic:Yes

[Magdave]

re: the Castrol Oil choice...on the Advanced Auto link...if you click on specifications...it specifically states NO under both ATV and motorcycle??

That oil is specifically for motorcycles google it.

[BajaRon]

It shouldn't be all that difficult to find a correct spec oil for your Spyder. Wal-Mart, local auto parts and on-line are some reasonable places to look.

[Magdave]

It shouldn't be all that difficult to find a correct spec oil for your Spyder. Wal-Mart, local auto parts and on-line are some reasonable places to look.

But he lives in South Africa Ron

[BajaRon]

But he lives in South Africa Ron

Oh! I guess I need to pay more attention!

[Jeriatric]

Thanks for all your guys advise. Luckily i have not put the oil in my bike yet... Here is a pic of the metal piece. The USB is there for an indication of size.
.

Just a thought. On the home page of S/Lovers, on the top right side, you'll find contact information for BRP. Email them your picture and ask to have it reviewed by the tech department. Not saying they will, but if they do - look at it. Am relatively certain they'll know where it came from. Again, just a thought. Best of luck.

[terminal3k]

DSC_0130.jpg[sgsm dave;746389] Then[/QUOTE] so i went to buy the Motul 5100 oil today. It has been updated to Jaso ma2. But also has the ratings : sg/Sh/sj/Sl/sm... bow I suppose becuase of the Sm I can't use it? Guy at the shop said he doesn't understand why it would give problems?

[Magdave]

DSC_0130.jpg[sgsm dave;746389] Then

so i went to buy the Motul 5100 oil today. It has been updated to Jaso ma2. But also has the ratings : sg/Sh/sj/Sl/sm... bow I suppose becuase of the Sm I can't use it? Guy at the shop said he doesn't understand why it would give problems?[/QUOTE]
From what I have read no but I would PM Nancy's toy to make sure he is THE expert.

[BajaRon]

DSC_0130.jpg[sgsm dave;746389] Then so i went to buy the Motul 5100 oil today. It has been updated to Jaso ma2. But also has the ratings : sg/Sh/sj/Sl/sm... bow I suppose becuase of the Sm I can't use it? Guy at the shop said he doesn't understand why it would give problems?

Most SM rated oils are too slippery for our wet clutch. Our Spyder being more susceptible to slippage with the wrong oil than most wet clutches. When spec'ing out an oil the manufacturer has to paint with a pretty broad brush since formulas and products change all the time and they can't be expected to adjust their specs product by product.

The SM rating is a good thing for an engine and transmission. It is not a good thing for a wet clutch because it is TOO slippery.

It is my understanding that some properly formulated, SM rated oils will work just fine in our Spyders. The only component that is negatively affected by the SM rating is the clutch. JASO MA2 being the highest friction rating, it would be logical that this would work just fine.

Take this with a grain of salt. But if it were me I would give it a try, paying close attention to my clutch. If you find you are getting clutch slippage you can change out your oil and be fine. Personally, I don't think you'll have any problem at all.

[terminal3k]

Most SM rated oils are too slippery for our wet clutch. Our Spyder being more susceptible to slippage with the wrong oil than most wet clutches. When spec'ing out an oil the manufacturer has to paint with a pretty broad brush since formulas and products change all the time and they can't be expected to adjust their specs product by product.

The SM rating is a good thing for an engine and transmission. It is not a good thing for a wet clutch because it is TOO slippery.

It is my understanding that some properly formulated, SM rated oils will work just fine in our Spyders. The only component that is negatively affected by the SM rating is the clutch. JASO MA2 being the highest friction rating, it would be logical that this would work just fine.

Take this with a grain of salt. But if it were me I would give it a try, paying close attention to my clutch. If you find you are getting clutch slippage you can change out your oil and be fine. Personally, I don't think you'll have any problem at all.

I must say im tempted to use that oil. I cant find anything else locally that comes close... The shell ultra that i mentioned before, i did a bit more reading and its not meant for 4 stroke engines, and the shell advanced (their motorcycle brand) is labelled SM (only)

Here is an interesting quote from a Spyderlover post:
"Hi to all, I'm new to the forum and live in the UK. I have sat at my PC for a week now, (sad, I know) viewing nearly all posts in an attempt to understand my 2012 RS.
I don't know about the USA, but here in the UK, we use Shell Ultra 10W40 fully Synthetic.
It's API SM & JASO MA2 and It's the Shell recommended oil for Can-Am Spyders.
Oils have changed since BRP wrote the manual, the latest API SM oils for motorcycles now contain friction modifiers for wet clutch machines and do not cause slip.

By the way I envy your gas prices, here in the UK it works out to $9.53 a gallon for unleaded " -- http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-46214.html

Thoughts? - Im quite desperate to find an alternative oil

[NancysToy]

I agree with Ron. In this case I feel the JASO-MA2 rating would supercede the API-SM rating. I would try it but pay close attention to your clutch performance and change the oil at the first sign of clutch slippage if it occurs. Be aware that there is a risk for any Spyder still on warranty. Because SM oils are prohibited by BRP, any oil related warranty issues could get sticky...if they found out which oil you used. Since clutches ar not generally warranted anyway, and that is the most likely place for failure if it happened, there is little to lose if BRP said "No." JMHO

[billybovine]

In my opinion BRP does not allow SM rated oil because in could be bad for the clutch. Nothing new there, that has be mentioned many times. So the easiest advice for anyone in North America is don't use SM oil because we have lots of choices. In your case it looks like you don't have the choices.

In the JASO T 903:2011 spec it requires the oil to meet a range of API specs including SM and SN. Those 2 specs have a note with them that a certain subcategory of SM and SN rated oils cannot be certified to meet the JASO spec. I think that eliminates the types of additives that can cause harm. So my assumption is that the Motul oil will not harm the clutch since it is registered and certified as meeting the JASO MA2 rating. Not like in North America a lot of the oils have a note stating they meet some form of the JASO spec but are not certified and registered with JASO.

So go for it for whatever my opinion is worth.

[BajaRon]

I agree with Ron. In this case I feel the JASO-MA2 rating would supercede the API-SM rating. I would try it but pay close attention to your clutch performance and change the oil at the first sign of clutch slippage if it occurs. Be aware that there is a risk for any Spyder still on warranty. Because SM oils are prohibited by BRP, any oil related warranty issues could get sticky...if they found out which oil you used. Since clutches are not generally warranted anyway, and that is the most likely place for failure if it happened, there is little to lose if BRP said "No." JMHO

Exactly! The SM qualities are great for metal to metal components and should, theoretically, give you better fuel mileage too! Though I wouldn't get my hopes to high in that regard.

The only possible downside is going to be slippage in the clutch (which you can easily monitor). If that aspect goes as it should with any JASO MA2 rated oil, you've found yourself a winner! If your clutch slipped, then the JASO rating would be suspect, in my mind, since this rating specifically addresses wet clutch slippage for the particular blended product.

Worst case scenario is that you'd have to change out your oil prematurely if you did have slipping.

[terminal3k]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I will give that Motul a try. Is clutch slippage when it doesn't change gear smoothly? Because I have had that a couple times before on the BRP oil.

The half round wire looks like a wire that raps around the needle cage. The wire is used to hold the needle bearings in the cage during assembly of the transmission, when putting in the pinion gear and when finished the half round wire is thrown away and in your case it was thrown. I have seen this wire before on friends 2011 RT when he changed his oil in my garage and his RT had over 20,000 miles on it. Don't worry be happy and ride without worry. That's IMHO.


Mike

It looks like the half round metal is a broken piece of metal... The one end is sharp and jagged

[billybovine]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I will give that Motul a try. Is clutch slippage when it doesn't change gear smoothly? Because I have had that a couple times before on the BRP oil.

When you twist the throttle to go and the increase in engine rpm does not seam to match the increase in speed and the rear tire is not spinning. The clutch is slipping. When the Kenda rear tire gets some wear on it, it will spin without squealing. Don't confuse that with a slipping clutch.

[terminal3k]

When you twist the throttle to go and the increase in engine rpm does not seam to match the increase in speed and the rear tire is not spinning. The clutch is slipping. When the Kenda rear tire gets some wear on it, it will spin without squealing. Don't confuse that with a slipping clutch.

Is it an obvious decrease in power to rpm? By the tire not spinning, do you mean when you open up the throttle quite a bit and the tire spins out on the road?

[BajaRon]

Thanks a lot for all your help. I will give that Motul a try. Is clutch slippage when it doesn't change gear smoothly? Because I have had that a couple times before on the BRP oil.

As your oil gets worn out your shifts may get more 'Clunky' and stiffer. If you have an SE5, shifting problems are usually due to low oil level but there can be other reasons.

I do not see that you have mentioned if you have an SM5 or an SE5, but here is what I would do to test your clutch with the Motul. Once you've got 50 miles or so on the new oil change, allowing the new oil to completely saturate the fiber clutch plates, I would take off from a stop like I was drag racing, but just short of spinning the rear tire. This requires aggressive application of the throttle and judicious application of the clutch (assuming you have an SM5).

If it feels like the rear wheel has broken loose but it has not, then you're getting clutch slippage.

Test 2. In 5th gear at 60 MPH (95 KPH), roll the throttle to wide open. You should get a steady increase in RPM and speed. If the RPM increases quickly without a corresponding increase in speed, then you've got clutch slippage. Stay at WOT until 80/85 MPH (130-135 KPH).

Recommendation... Don't get a ticket while testing!

[terminal3k]

As your oil gets worn out your shifts may get more 'Clunky' and stiffer. If you have an SE5, shifting problems are usually due to low oil level but there can be other reasons.

I do not see that you have mentioned if you have an SM5 or an SE5, but here is what I would do to test your clutch with the Motul. Once you've got 50 miles or so on the new oil change, allowing the new oil to completely saturate the fiber clutch plates, I would take off from a stop like I was drag racing, but just short of spinning the rear tire. This requires aggressive application of the throttle and judicious application of the clutch (assuming you have an SM5).

If it feels like the rear wheel has broken loose but it has not, then you're getting clutch slippage.

Test 2. In 5th gear at 60 MPH (95 KPH), roll the throttle to wide open. You should get a steady increase in RPM and speed. If the RPM increases quickly without a corresponding increase in speed, then you've got clutch slippage. Stay at WOT until 80/85 MPH (130-135 KPH).

Recommendation... Don't get a ticket while testing!

Thanks for the info! i have just finished my oil change and will do those tests... hold thumbs!
ill try not to get a ticket
-- I have an SE5

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the info! i have just finished my oil change and will do those tests... hold thumbs!
ill try not to get a ticket
-- I have an SE5

My money is on the Motul being a good choice. But it doesn't hurt to check. You should notice better shifting with that oil regardless of what your clutch does.

[terminal3k]

All seems good so far. I cant noticeably feel the clutch slipping, but i have never experienced it before. Is it an obvious thing? i did the tests recommended....

[BajaRon]

All seems good so far. I cant noticeably feel the clutch slipping, but i have never experienced it before. Is it an obvious thing? i did the tests recommended....

It should be obvious to anyone who is accustomed to how the Spyder normally performs. You will get a noticeable and disconcerting disconnect between engine RPM and acceleration. It will act like your rear tire has broken loose, but it hasn't. You'll get too much RPM and not enough acceleration.

If it feels good, it most likely is good.

[NancysToy]

If it feels good, it most likely is good.