My 2013 Heat improvments

[jcthorne]

Decided some time ago to do some work on my 2013 RT-S to improve the heat situation and gas fumes problems. Ordered cat replacement section of exhaust, heat wrap and gaskets. Also decided to do the canisterectomy while in there.

This weekend was the first open time for me to really work on the bike. I'll get to install a few Christmas gifts as well once the heat work is done. Worked on the bike all day yesterday. Got all the body panels off, got the canisterectomy done and removed the entire exhaust from muffler all the way to the heads. No small task.

That is where I quit last night and will work on it today but did discover something that no one else had mentioned on the forum before.

The head pipes from a couple inches from the head flange all the way to the connection to the cat converter ARE insulated from the factory. The head pipes are both of double wall construction and all stainless steel.

Still plan to wrap, this is actually good news as wrap over double wall pipe will last much longer than wrap over single wall pipe due to the extreme heat. Just thought it interesting that the factory already knew running exhaust through the engine bay and along the front of the gas tank was a heat problem, they just did not do enough. The correct answer is what was done on the 14s moving the exhaust to the front and under rather than through the engine bay.

I'll post up more info as I make progress. Hopefully some pics too.

[rick_w]

Decided some time ago to do some work on my 2013 RT-S to improve the heat situation and gas fumes problems. Ordered cat replacement section of exhaust, heat wrap and gaskets. Also decided to do the canisterectomy while in there.

This weekend was the first open time for me to really work on the bike. I'll get to install a few Christmas gifts as well once the heat work is done. Worked on the bike all day yesterday. Got all the body panels off, got the canisterectomy done and removed the entire exhaust from muffler all the way to the heads. No small task.

That is where I quit last night and will work on it today but did discover something that no one else had mentioned on the forum before.

The head pipes from a couple inches from the head flange all the way to the connection to the cat converter ARE insulated from the factory. The head pipes are both of double wall construction and all stainless steel.

Still plan to wrap, this is actually good news as wrap over double wall pipe will last much longer than wrap over single wall pipe due to the extreme heat. Just thought it interesting that the factory already knew running exhaust through the engine bay and along the front of the gas tank was a heat problem, they just did not do enough. The correct answer is what was done on the 14s moving the exhaust to the front and under rather than through the engine bay.

I'll post up more info as I make progress. Hopefully some pics too.

Thanks,
Good information.
Our heat wrap has about 5000 miles on it and looks like the day I put it on there. Made a huge difference on the Left Side along with the Adjustable Air Vents.

[stewartj239]

removed the entire exhaust from muffler all the way to the heads. No small task.

I am in the process of doing similar enhancements and removing the exhaust was a daunting task. There was one header bolt (front and rear) that was impossible to get off - even after removing the entire air box. I had to buy one of those 10mm ratchet wrenches and then grind off over 50% of the metal around the socket part of the wrench and neck in order to get the clearance needed to get at and remove the bolt.

That is where I quit last night and will work on it today but did discover something that no one else had mentioned on the forum before.

The head pipes from a couple inches from the head flange all the way to the connection to the cat converter ARE insulated from the factory. The head pipes are both of double wall construction and all stainless steel.

That is great to know. I'm having my pipes ceramic coated and I never noticed. They are out at the shop right now, so I'll check it out when I get them back.

I applaud your efforts for taking control of your heat situation, rather than waiting for BRP to do something. I look forward to hearing about your progress and seeing the photos.

[jcthorne]

I am in the process of doing similar enhancements and removing the exhaust was a daunting task. There was one header bolt (front and rear) that was impossible to get off - even after removing the entire air box. I had to buy one of those 10mm ratchet wrenches and then grind off over 50% of the metal around the socket part of the wrench and neck in order to get the clearance needed to get at and remove the bolt.

I know which bolts you are speaking of. Many words uttered that I do not normally use....

What worked on both of them was a 10mm swivel socket, 3" 1/4 drive extension and a stubby 1/4 drive ratchet. Both cases from under the pipe as the nuts in question are on the bottom of the flange. Yes I took the resonator section of the air inlet out, not the filter box.

[3 Wheel Addict]

I did not have to remove any part of the air box to get the pipes off? I used a 10mm wrench and worked them one flat at a time and was able to get them off. I also noticed the double wall pipes but if you look closely you will notice the rear (short pipe) is not double wall. I think this is done for tuning reasons not temperature. The front pipe has more length so they made it small inside and doubled walled it to keep them the same size and for strength as well. I'm currently waiting on warmer weather to make the final say if the wrap helped the heat or not. I have spoke with my dealer at length about this and they have agreed to take my spyder back and sell it for me if no solution comes from BRP. My only other option will be lemon law as a last resort, and yes it applies in Ohio.

[jcthorne]

I did not have to remove any part of the air box to get the pipes off? I used a 10mm wrench and worked them one flat at a time and was able to get them off. I also noticed the double wall pipes but if you look closely you will notice the rear (short pipe) is not double wall. I think this is done for tuning reasons not temperature. The front pipe has more length so they made it small inside and doubled walled it to keep them the same size and for strength as well. I'm currently waiting on warmer weather to make the final say if the wrap helped the heat or not. I have spoke with my dealer at length about this and they have agreed to take my spyder back and sell it for me if no solution comes from BRP. My only other option will be lemon law as a last resort, and yes it applies in Ohio.

Odd that different 13s are showing different rear pipes. My short rear is definalty double wall with an ID nearly 1/2" smaller than the OD. The small rear pipe was where I first noticed the double wall before I observed that the longer front pipe was as well.


Mid day update, the pipes and cat replacement section are wrapped and on the bike all bolts are in place. Taking a short break and then will go tighten them all up and align everything. The cat replacement section is a bear to get on. Just too many things to line up at the same time and the replacement part is not EXACTLY the same shape, size and angles as the OEM. Even the connections are slightly different so it takes more than a bit of coaxing to get on. Its there now but for what this exhaust section cost, it could have been of significantly better quality and dimensional control. IE it should have been OEM quality and its not.

Back to work....

[Chupaca]

good to see you all are not just letting things ride and working on solutions. Will be waiting to see the results we do have a wealth of smart folks here and have already found some helpful solutions...good luck..

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for passing on what is sure to be VERY useful information!!
Good Luck with the finishing touches on this eeffort; I hope that it works well-beyond your wildest dreams!

[jcthorne]

Quick note...

The bolts holding the rear pipe to the head must be tightened down before installing the forward pipe.....

There went 2 hours.

On it goes.

[Bob Denman]

GOOD LUCK...

[jcthorne]

Good news bad news.

I finished up installing the exhaust. Installed the wiring harness and mounting for the Bluetooth module and my new tricled lights for the fenders (replacing the reflectors). Got that done and rechecked all connectors were buttoned up and turn on the ignition switch to see the lights and check for codes.....

Back up a bit. Twice now I have stopped for gas and gone to start and drive off only to have a 'Check Transmission' message and the bike will not shift to first. Both times after going through the 'check the oil' and have a look around, the bike started and drove normally. But I knew something was up.

When I turned on the ignition key today the check transmission message was back. With all the body work off I started rechecking my steps and verify all wiring harness were connected. That's when I found the problem. A factory defect. Two wires from one of the solenoids on the trans were no longer in the connector, bare wire standing at attention behind connector. Long story but after taking the connector apart and removing the pins for those two wires its obvious that when the wires were crimped to the pins, the wire was not fully seated in the pin and the crimp area missed the conductor, only crimping onto the jacket and making an intermittent connection to the pin with a mechanically weak connection to the wire. I soldered the pins to the wires and called it quits last night. Dead tired and figured I would have better luck reassembling the connector this morning when fresh. Hope it fixes things. Very poor quality control on the part of BRP and was going to leave me stranded and a dealer without a clue.

Will report back.

[stewartj239]

When I turned on the ignition key today the check transmission message was back. With all the body work off I started rechecking my steps and verify all wiring harness were connected. That's when I found the problem. A factory defect. Two wires from one of the solenoids on the trans were no longer in the connector, bare wire standing at attention behind connector.

Definitely a set back but at least you have found the problem. I know that electrical problems can sometimes be a nightmare to resolve. Once you get it going, I'm curious to hear how much the heat wrap has improved things.

[SNOOPY]

Where exactly is the solenoid and wire connection you speak of?

Nice to remember in case a future problem.

[Bob Denman]

JC,
I'm glad tht you found the problem, and had the tools and skills to fix it!
But it's a shame that you HAD to...

[jcthorne]

Where exactly is the solenoid and wire connection you speak of?

Nice to remember in case a future problem.

Left hand side of the engine you will find the 4 solenoids that come together in a single connector mounted on the same bracket as the ignition coil, just behind and to the right of the oil tank. The cables have white jackets so they stand out from the rest. On mine the connector is grey where all the others a black. The wires had come out of the bottom of the connector.

Update; soldered the pins on the wires and re-inserted into the connector. They snapped right in and I re-assembled the connector and plugged it in to the harness. Turned on the ignition key and Mary Poppins is happy again. WHEW!

Finished installing the fender LEDs and bright sides LEDs for the saddle bags. (Note that the turn signal function on the bright sides will not work on a 2013 if you have the Custom Dynamics strobe box connected to the brake lights. The ground from the turn and stop lamps cannot be connected together with the strobe box or the lights will not work. They (brightsides) work fine as running lights just like the fender lights.

Off to install the gauges and then smoke out the garage with the new heat wrap. Then to re-install all the body panels. Hope to finish this round today.

[jcthorne]

Well, buttoned her up and went for about a 50 mile ride to burn off the smoke in the exhaust wrap and find out what I accomplished.

A lot as it turns out. Cannot tell everything in 50 miles but I intentionally sat in traffic for about 20 minutes, did about 25 miles at 75mph on the freeway and some stop n go.

The area around my thighs and the glove box is barely warm to the touch. No gas fumes today but it was only 77deg today too but I would have had fumes in traffic and in the garage when I got home before.

The other pleasant surprise was the kick in the seat. WOT has a whole new attitude. Now mind you that my calibrated butt o meter has not been properly calibrated in some time but, it was a very noticeable improvement. Easily 10 hp and a very nice authoritative exhaust note when the throttle is open. At idle the note is a bit deeper but no louder than before.

Did have a bust with the gauge install and gave up on those for this weekend. The special fitting I bought for the oil pressure sender (recommended here on spyderlovers because of the odd metric fitting BAT inc. part TPVW) was defective and broke off at the base of the threads before it even was seated against the o-ring washer. Looking at the broken fitting under a magnifying glass, its no wonder, the metal under the threads was only a few thousandths thick. IE the bore through the center is much too large for that size thread. I will contact the supplier and see what they will do but unless they have one MUCH smaller bore, I would not trust this fitting with the tubing and pressure switch hanging off it under vibration and pressure. Anyone know of another source for the odd metric fitting or even what specific thread or connection type it is? Its some sort of straight thread o-ring fitting. Will research this one and try again another day.

All in all a good place to call it quits for the weekend. Much improved 2013 Spyder RT.

[stewartj239]

The area around my thighs and the glove box is barely warm to the touch.

Excellent. 77 degrees isn't scorching, but it isn't cold either. I think your conclusion can be drawn from the fact that you can notice the heat reduction.

No gas fumes today but it was only 77deg today too but I would have had fumes in traffic and in the garage when I got home before.

That is consistent with everything I have read from posts where people have removed the evap cansiter.

The other pleasant surprise was the kick in the seat. WOT has a whole new attitude. Now mind you that my calibrated butt o meter has not been properly calibrated in some time but, it was a very noticeable improvement. Easily 10 hp and a very nice authoritative exhaust note when the throttle is open. At idle the note is a bit deeper but no louder than before.

Keep in mind that part of your heat reduction is directly related to removing the CAT. The added HP is a bonus as well. Has the FI module adjusted properly with the CAT removal?

[SNOOPY]

Lots of good info

[jcthorne]

Keep in mind that part of your heat reduction is directly related to removing the CAT. The added HP is a bonus as well. Has the FI module adjusted properly with the CAT removal?

The first few miles I could tell the computer was not itself and was worried. but by the time it warmed up, things were fine. Mary Poppins never complained during the ride and it was idling smooth and no popping in the exhaust on decal. I will pull the plugs after a few hundred miles and check.

[SNOOPY]

I saw where you replaced the cat, did you change the muffler too? I missed that.

[jcthorne]

I saw where you replaced the cat, did you change the muffler too? I missed that.

No, used the stock muffler. Without the cat, I am very pleased with the tone.

[Bob Denman]

Another Catalytic Converter removal...
this is starting to picque my interest...
I guess that I'll have to wait for the 1330 bypass pipe to show up...
Couple that with an Akrapovic muffler, and I wonder what the weight savings alone would be?

[SNOOPY]

No, used the stock muffler. Without the cat, I am very pleased with the tone.

That's what I'm talking about.

[Dan McNally]

Things are sounding good! Glad your improvements worked! Thanks for the update!

[stewartj239]

I guess that I'll have to wait for the 1330 bypass pipe to show up...
Couple that with an Akrapovic muffler, and I wonder what the weight savings alone would be?

The Akrapovic weighs 10 lbs. The stock silencer weighs 20 lbs. I've got a cat bypass y-pipe out to the shop right now and I'll let you know the weight savings on that when it comes back.