Making the 2013 Spyder RT-S "Perfect"

[stewartj239]

YOU CAN INSTALL THE ISCI FAN CAN ON THERE AS WELL THIS WILL ALSO HELP REDUCE THE HEAT ON YOUR FEET WHEN YOU ARE SITTING AT IDLE AND WHEN THE FAN KICKS ON

I have given that some thought as well. However, I have an SM5 which comes with the footpegs instead of the floorboards. With that set up, the heat never hits my foot because it doesn't get far enough forward.

[Magdave]

YOU CAN INSTALL THE ISCI FAN CAN ON THERE AS WELL THIS WILL ALSO HELP REDUCE THE HEAT ON YOUR FEET WHEN YOU ARE SITTING AT IDLE AND WHEN THE FAN KICKS ON

They do not make one for the 2013.

[dancote]

I have to say that, in my 54+ years of riding and history of owning 50+ motorcycles / motorcycles with sidecars and scooters, and adding aftermarket seat solutions to several, I've never owned one that fit me so well right off the showroom floor as our 2013 Spyder RT SE5 that was ordered with Seal floorboards. A very close second was our Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive in terms of ergonomics. That one got sheepskin seat covers to make it "perfect".

I may explore adding a drive belt idler to tame the mild (but not insignificant) vibration sensed in the floorboards at certain RPMs.

I'd like more (and more accessible) power points. They'll be added over time.

For now, I don't care to explore audio enhancements. Even though I've paid close attention (I thought) to maintaining my hearing, it hasn't paid off. My Harleys always had stock mufflers and, if you haven't heard them, they're pretty quiet. I suspect that hours of wind noise on un-faired bikes and listening to tunes on my tourers at levels above wind/road/exhaust sound got me to where I am today. Maybe a bit of contribution from Navy carriers, jets and turbojets.

The only thing I'd like in the audio department is rider/passenger communication on the rare occasion when my wife rides with me.

Regards,

Dan

[stewartj239]

I may explore adding a drive belt idler to tame the mild (but not insignificant) vibration sensed in the floorboards at certain RPMs.

I think that a belt tensioner is going to be something that I might add during this round of changes. We usually get vibration between 55 and 65 mph.

I'd like more (and more accessible) power points. They'll be added over time.

I am currently looking into this. I've read that the best power source for the AutoTune is through the fuse box. I'm looking at the RT-S manual right now and it looks like fuse #6 in the right side box is open for accessories. I'm going to verify that it is open tomorrow morning and if so, I'll probably buy a fuse tap and wire the AutoTune through that. I assume it can be used for any other type of accessory as well.

[den1953]

You've made quite a quest of making these improvements to your 2013 RT. No doubt a lot of time, effort and money spent. My question is this, would it be better for me to just pay more up-front and get a 2014 and hope BRP has the issues fixed? Or get a 2013 at a discounted price (maybe even a low mileage used one) and tackle the mods as needed? Much is being done by owners such as yourself and being posted in this forum. What you are learning and doing would be valuable to owners who feel "stuck" with their 2013 Spyder RTs. I'm just wondering from my perspective of not being a Spyder owner yet as to what would be the best "bang for the buck". I admit that I am leaning towards the 2014 but better information will come as the early adopters find out how their Rydes perform long term.

[stewartj239]

You've made quite a quest of making these improvements to your 2013 RT. No doubt a lot of time, effort and money spent. My question is this, would it be better for me to just pay more up-front and get a 2014 and hope BRP has the issues fixed? Or get a 2013 at a discounted price (maybe even a low mileage used one) and tackle the mods as needed? Much is being done by owners such as yourself and being posted in this forum. What you are learning and doing would be valuable to owners who feel "stuck" with their 2013 Spyder RTs. I'm just wondering from my perspective of not being a Spyder owner yet as to what would be the best "bang for the buck". I admit that I am leaning towards the 2014 but better information will come as the early adopters find out how their Rydes perform long term.

Before deciding to dump all of this money into all of these updates, I did consider a 2014, but here is why I decided to stick with the 2013:

1. My wife and I have put over 4500 miles on our 2013 with no problems, so I am starting with a known base.
2. I have not experienced any of the heat related horror stories that you have read about on this forum. I have no melted parts, boiling gas, hot seat, hot foot, etc.
3. After doing my own research, and if you check the archives here, you will find that there are plenty of 2010 - 2012 RT owners who too complain about heat problems. Personally, it makes me wonder if these issues stretch all the way back to the earlier year models as well.
4. Based on trade-in that I could have gotten plus all the money I am spending right now, I could have gotten into a 2014. I decided against it because the 2013 has the same updated chassis as the 2014 and I was not comfortable buying the 2014 which has the new, unproven engine. The V-Twin in the 2013 started life as a motorcycle engine and has been around for 10+ years. It is a proven design and very reliable. With those two points in mind, I personally feel that the 2013 is the platform to be on.
5. The HP / torque difference between the 2013 and 2014 is nominal. I honestly expected them to go to a larger motor like the competition - 1600cc or 1800cc. I figure that once I swap out the catalytic converter, silencer, open the air box and add the PCV, then I'll be darn close to the output of the 2014. In addition, the engine reviews that I have read are not very appealing. One even stated that the 2013 had more grunt down low. I think the 2014 motor would be more important to me if I was hauling a trailer. But still, I would be uncomfortable with it being an unproven design.
6. If you look at my list, everything on there is an enhancement for the Spyder, not a fix. I could live with it as it is, but with every bike that I have owned over the last 25+ years, I always modify it to make it as good as it can be. That is what I think I am doing here.
7. Yes, I am doing some things that do reduce heat (cat removal, ceramic coating), but these are more of a reactive measure because of the heat issues that others are having. Honestly, if there were no reported issues, I would at least remove the CAT anyway just to open up the engine to let it run the way it was meant to.
8. Lastly, I am definitely adding the PCV as a reactive measure. Hearing that some bikes are running hot and people are posting images of white spark plugs, that tells me that they are running lean - which could be the cause of their heat issues. If that is true, then the PCV will fix that problem. It makes me wonder if the fix is that simple.

Sorry for doing a complete brain dump here, but these were all of my justifications for doing these modifications. It does add up to a significant amount of money - over $5K. With that said, the two that I am excited most about is the ELKA suspension and ISCI front brake. Good luck with your purchasing decision and feel free to post back with questions or what you've decided.

[BigJohnP]

"PCV with AutoTune - To make sure I don't run too lean with the cat removal and Akrapovic, I'm adding the PCV - which I have past experience with. Also hearing that the rear cylinder can run leaner than the front, I'm adding the dual channel AutoTune so that each cylinder can be mapped independently."

Could you please explain just what this is for me. Not sure that I understand just what you are doing. I plan to do some mods to my as soon as I can get back in the shop. The removal of the CAT looks like it will make the list, so I would like understand this to the full.

Thanks for all the help your giving to us all. I love my and plan to keep my 2013 for a nice long time. So the better it runs the more I'll like it.

[stewartj239]

"PCV with AutoTune - To make sure I don't run too lean with the cat removal and Akrapovic, I'm adding the PCV - which I have past experience with. Also hearing that the rear cylinder can run leaner than the front, I'm adding the dual channel AutoTune so that each cylinder can be mapped independently."

Could you please explain just what this is for me. Not sure that I understand just what you are doing. I plan to do some mods to my as soon as I can get back in the shop. The removal of the CAT looks like it will make the list, so I would like understand this to the full.

Thanks for all the help your giving to us all. I love my and plan to keep my 2013 for a nice long time. So the better it runs the more I'll like it.

The stock FI module on the Spyder is programmed by BRP and from what I have found on previous motorcycles, is less than optimal because the bike must be tuned to meet strict emission requirements. Beyond that, the stock FI module can adjust to small changes, such as adding an exhaust, but beyond that, it gets sketchy and the result is typically an engine that runs lean, pops on deceleration, surges, has an erratic idle, etc.

The Power Commander V (PCV) is made by Dyno Jet and it is a fuel management system. You start by loading one of the default maps that Dyno Jet provides into the PCV. From there, using your computer, you have total control of the settings that you want to make that determine how the FI will be mapped. For example, you can force it to run richer if you're currently running lean - you can't do this with the stock FI module. Another option is to find a dyno center and have them put your Spyder on a dyno which will create a custom map that is specific to your bike. This map is then loaded into the PCV. At this point, the map is fixed and does not adjust as conditions change, but is still way better than stock. Also, changing the default map is purely optional. You can just load it and let it be.

I have decided to add the AutoTune so that the FI mapping can be adjusted on the fly for temperature, altitude, etc. There are 2 models offered. The AT-200 requires an O2 sensor to be welded to ONE of the header pipes so that it can make the adjustments that are applied to BOTH cylinders. The AT-300 requires an O2 sensor to be welded to EACH header so that it can provide a custom map for EACH cylinder. I am going with the AT-300 because it is common for the rear cylinder on a V-Twin to run leaner than the front. The AT-300 will map each cylinder for what each needs.

Hopefully you don't find this to be overwhelming. Adding just the PCV is simple enough. Adding the AutoTune requires a little more work, but is actually pretty straight forward.

[stewartj239]

While I have the Spyder torn apart, I decided to remove the evap canister to get rid of the gas odor that often filled the garage (and house) after it was parked. The link to the thread for doing this procedure is here:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...Canisterectomy

As described in the procedure, I went out and purchased a gas filter, some fuel line, a bolt and a few clamps. I think the total cost was about $12. This was incredibly easy to do. The canister in on the right side of the engine. Once I popped the line from the gas tank (center) and purge valve (left), the canister simply pulls up and out from the bracket that holds it. The line still attached on the right is the drain line.

EvapCanister-1.jpg

The next picture shows the fuel filter that was connected to the line from the gas tank (I have not yet attached the line to the other end of the filter). On the right is the bolt that was clamped that leads to the purge valve.

EvapCanister-2.jpg

Both lines were then zip tied back to the upper part of the bracket. The next picture shows all of the space that was opened up by removing it. The canister consumed all of the space between the bracket (in front of the cylinder) and the frame rail. Best of all is that this modification can easily be reversed if necessary or desired. Getting rid of it should eliminate the emitted gas fumes and allow for more air to flow around the engine.

EvapCanister-3.jpg

[stewartj239]

I did a quick comparison between the stock and Akrapovic silencers. The picture on the right really shows how much more compact the Akrapovic is. In addition, I put them both on the scale. The stock silencer weighs 20 lbs. The Akrapovic is just 10 lbs.

Exhaust-1.jpg Exhaust-2.jpg

[stewartj239]

While I was installing the new BajaRon spark plug wire set, I noticed that the OEM plugs that I've run for the last 4500 miles, did not look the same. The plug on the right is from the rear cylinder and it looks to be running a little rich. The plug on the left is from the front cylinder and I'd say that it is running perfect. The left plug looks lean, but I think that is only because the right plug makes you think that. This is one reason why I am adding the dual channel AutoTune - so that I can get a map specific for each cylinder. Any thoughts or comments?

Plugs.jpg

[stewartj239]

Another small enhancement that I have done is to apply reflective tape to the gas tank. I've stated before that I have never had boiling gas or even a hot gas cap, but I am all about preventive maintenance and this should definitely reduce the amount of heat absorbed by the gas tank.

ReflectiveTape-1.jpg ReflectiveTape-2.jpg ReflectiveTape-3.jpg

[MouthPiece]

While I was installing the new BajaRon spark plug wire set, I noticed that the OEM plugs that I've run for the last 4500 miles, did not look the same. The plug on the right is from the rear cylinder and it looks to be running a little rich. The plug on the left is from the front cylinder and I'd say that it is running perfect. The left plug looks lean, but I think that is only because the right plug makes you think that. This is one reason why I am adding the dual channel AutoTune - so that I can get a map specific for each cylinder. Any thoughts or comments?

Plugs.jpg

My comment is more of a question. When are you going to open up your own shop so that many of us can come use your services? <smiles>

​Chris

[stewartj239]

My comment is more of a question. When are you going to open up your own shop so that many of us can come use your services? <smiles>

​Chris

Well, I am a software engineer by day and just tinker with my bikes on my off time. If you lived closer or want to make the drive to NY, I'd be happy to help you with what I can. Until then, just ask questions as there are more than enough people here who can help you

[Magdave]

While I was installing the new BajaRon spark plug wire set, I noticed that the OEM plugs that I've run for the last 4500 miles, did not look the same. The plug on the right is from the rear cylinder and it looks to be running a little rich. The plug on the left is from the front cylinder and I'd say that it is running perfect. The left plug looks lean, but I think that is only because the right plug makes you think that. This is one reason why I am adding the dual channel AutoTune - so that I can get a map specific for each cylinder. Any thoughts or comments?

Plugs.jpg

That is interesting. I would be sending that picture to both BRP and my dealer and asking why they look the way they do. It should be an interesting answer.

[stewartj239]

That is interesting. I would be sending that picture to both BRP and my dealer and asking why they look the way they do. It should be an interesting answer.

From what I know and from what I've researched, this is not uncommon for V-Twin engines. Especially for air cooled engines where the rear cylinder gets less air flow to it. With a liquid cooled V-Twin, I have seen where there are still other factors that can have the same effect, but are not as prominent due to the liquid cooling. I wonder if that is what is going on with mine. Either way, the AutoTune will fix it

[spacetiger]

While I was installing the new BajaRon spark plug wire set, I noticed that the OEM plugs that I've run for the last 4500 miles, did not look the same. The plug on the right is from the rear cylinder and it looks to be running a little rich. The plug on the left is from the front cylinder and I'd say that it is running perfect. The left plug looks lean, but I think that is only because the right plug makes you think that. This is one reason why I am adding the dual channel AutoTune - so that I can get a map specific for each cylinder. Any thoughts or comments?

Plugs.jpg

Actually I would be surprised if they both looked like the left plug; I was expecting both plugs to close to the one on the right. I say this because of the heat - I think the engine is set to run a bit rich to help keep things cooler.

The plugs, as shown in the pic, remind me of all air and water cooled V twins that are carburetored. When you look at the jets, the rear cylinder is always jetted with a bigger jet because it tends to run hotter.

I think the PC-V with auto tune will allow greater precision to maintaining an optimal F/A ratio for each cylinder whether tuned for max power, best MPG, or somewhere between. That said, to realize this potential, I think you have to get as much of the heat out of the engine within the tupperware so it doesn't affect parts like the vacuum hoses (so these areas do not adversely affect F/A).

Jerry
Edit: the power curve comparing the 2014 and 2013 engine shows just how much more stout the 2014 engine is across the entire RPM range (there is no substitution for cubic inches): http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/96773/...irst-Look.aspx

2 other thoughts:
- I applaud all efforts to improve the V-twin platform. It is still a very capable ride worth the investment and effort, just be mindful of the investment amount. At some point, the 2014 with more capable engine is the better "investment".
- I expect the triple to run cooler because of the routing of the exhaust pipes. The pipes exit the top cylinder front, go down and under the engine, and out the back. They do not route up under the bodywork, by the gas tank and out the back.

[Questions]

I am new to this. I just purchased MidLifeCrisis's 2010 RT-S SM5. He has done lots of mods, but I am extremely interested in the removal of the Cat and the addition of the PC-V.

[den1953]

Thanks for the informative reply. I'm spending this long cold Ohio winter straddling the fence between a heavily discounted 2013 which I could easily afford to do mods as neeeded or antying up full or nearly full MSRP for a 2014. Time will tell whether or not the new 1330cc motor and six speed tranny are reliable or not. I'm content to just wait things out for a few months or even to the 2015 models. At any rate the 2013s will seem like bargains compared to the new ones when the dealers up here start getting shipments of new 2014 RTs. How big of a discount will determine to me whether spending a few grand on modifications would be worth it or not. Thanks for your explanations and I'll keep on following your progress.

[stewartj239]

Edit: the power curve comparing the 2014 and 2013 engine shows just how much more stout the 2014 engine is across the entire RPM range (there is no substitution for cubic inches).

Coming from the MX world, graphs and charts don't always reflect what you feel on the track, or in this the case, the street. There is no doubt that the 2014 has more everything according to the numbers, but is it enough to dump a new bike when the seat of the pants differences might not be that huge? I say this because of two different reviews I have read about the 2014. Here is the link to one of them and some quotes that stood out in my mind:

http://www.ridermagazine.com/top-sto...de-review.htm/

"Can-Am says it makes 96 lb-ft of torque vs. 80 in the V-twin, and 115 horsepower vs. 100. Not exactly eyeball-flattening in a machine that weighs a claimed 1,012 pounds dry—about 60 pounds more than the 2013 RT—but the curve is such that the bike has about 40 percent more low-end torque than before, the better for cruising, climbing hills and carrying a passenger and gear as well as towing a trailer."

"While roll-on testing back-to-back with a 2013 RT V-twin at the 2014 launch last week in Florida showed the new RT triple is not appreciably quicker at lower speeds, BRP Project Leader Michael Tissier said the goal was to improve roll-on acceleration from 80-120 kph, or 50-75 mph, and there it does feel stronger and less busy than the revvier twin."

It's funny because the first quote by BRP and the second quote by the reviewer contradict themselves - this is what I am talking about. There was a second review that actually said the 2013 felt quicker out of the hole. If the changes are focused to be most noticed between 50-75 MPH, or towing a trailer, then that does not fit my riding. In addition, it is still a new and unproven engine which is why I decided to stick with the 2013.

I applaud all efforts to improve the V-twin platform. It is still a very capable ride worth the investment and effort, just be mindful of the investment amount. At some point, the 2014 with more capable engine is the better "investment".

Agreed. Any time you make changes to any bike, you are unlikely to ever get that money back out of it. I typically keep my bikes for a long time (5-10 years) so that is the justification I use for doing so. If I was looking to turn this over in a couple of years, then I would really be in the hole. At this point, I am not sure the 2014 is a better investment, again, it is unproven, and the engine size does not obsolete the V-Twin. If they had gone to maybe a 1600cc or 1800cc engine, then it would be different story. Based on the reviews I have read, and the modifications I am making, I think the V-Twin will be pretty close to a stock 1330 - and maybe better on the low-end / off the line department.

I expect the triple to run cooler because of the routing of the exhaust pipes. The pipes exit the top cylinder front, go down and under the engine, and out the back. They do not route up under the bodywork, by the gas tank and out the back.

Yes, I do too. For those with a 2010-2013, there are plenty of things that can be done to alleviate the heat and move it out of the tupperware. It all boils down to how committed people are to wanting to resolve issues that they perceive as real for themselves.

[stewartj239]

As a follow-up to the evap canister removal, a friend of mine on this forum called me out for using a plastic fuel filter as opposed to a steel one. When I bought the parts needed, I actually bought both and had decided to install the plastic one. Since there is more room in there than I had anticipated and to be as preventative as I can, I swapped out the plastic fuel filter for the steel one.

EvapCanister-4.jpg

Here is a great shot from the backside that again shows how much room has been opened up by removing the canister.

EvapCanister-5.jpg

[Bob Denman]

I'm REAL glad that you're only a touch over three hours away from me!!
( NOTE TO SELF: Get his address and phone number quickly!)

[stewartj239]

Since it has been below zero for the last few days, I decided to start spending my time indoors chipping away at what I could. I ended up getting the Spyderpops Bump Skid installed. I don't believe that it is required to remove the frunk, but I already had mine off for all of the other work that I'm doing. Besides, due to gravity, I'm sure it is much easier to install the bump skid with the frunk off rather than on. Here is what the stock front end looks like.

Bump Skid - 1.jpg

Once you flip over the frunk, you will need to remove the stock skid plate - if you can really call it that

Bump Skid - 2.jpg Bump Skid - 3.jpg

The next step was to remove the 4 plastic rivets at the top part of the wings - 2 on each side. You replace them with 4 of the provided threaded clips, and secure the bump skid with the 4 provided screws. By securing the bump skid using the 4 screws, it allows you to use the bump skid as a template to drill the 8 holes across the nose as seen below. Drill them out to 1/4" and then remove the bump skid. You then need to insert the 8 threaded clips.

Bump Skid - 4.jpg Bump Skid - 5.jpg

OK. I just realized that you can only upload 5 pictures per post, so I'll continue this in the next post .....

[stewartj239]

After the clips are in place, all you have to do is insert all 12 screws and tighten. Here is the finished product.

Bump Skid - 6.jpg Bump Skid - 7.jpg

This was an incredibly easy install and I am very happy with the quality of the material. It is very thick and is no doubt extremely durable. In addition, I think it enhances the look of the front end. It gives it some "attitude"

[taxmyzer]

After the clips are in place, all you have to do is insert all 12 screws and tighten. Here is the finished product.

Bump Skid - 6.jpg Bump Skid - 7.jpg

This was an incredibly easy install and I am very happy with the quality of the material. It is very thick and is no doubt extremely durable. In addition, I think it enhances the look of the front end. It gives it some "attitude"

Great job!