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  1. #26
    Active Member lwrydr's Avatar
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    Default Ceramic

    I'm very interested in how the ceramic turns out. Please keep us posted.

  2. #27
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwrydr View Post
    I'm very interested in how the ceramic turns out. Please keep us posted.
    I will. That is one of the first things I'm going to tackle. I probably won't be able to start tearing into the bike until the I'm off during the holidays, but my first priority is getting the entire exhaust system off. Before having the headers ceramic coated, I'll also need to make sure I know where I need to have the O2 bungs welded for the AutoTune. Also, from my initial talks with the shop that will do it, I think it will be less than $200 to have it done. I'll will post back when I have the details.

  3. #28
    Active Member Barlock's Avatar
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    Default Ceramic exhaust ...

    ... was discussed here in great details. You may want to read this thread first before you start doing it:

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...eramic+exhaust
    2012 RT-S SE5 with Web Boards, custom graphics and battery tender leads

  4. #29
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barlock View Post
    ... was discussed here in great details. You may want to read this thread first before you start doing it:

    http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...eramic+exhaust
    Thanks for the link. Just like the typical post on this forum, there is no agreement or general consensus on the issue. I did do my own research about ceramic coating and it clearly has advantages. Now whether those advantages will be realized on the Spyder is a different story, but while I have everything torn apart, I plan to do it and hope for the best. I am not doing the spray or the wrap. I'm having them professionally coated inside and out. Besides, I am not having any heat issues, so even if it does not reduce heat, then I'll never know. I'm doing it solely for peace of mind. For the cost of the bike, I'm not worried about flushing $200 down the toilet if there are no noticeable results.

  5. #30
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    The ISCI front brake came in this week. After inspecting the components, I can say that this is a very high quality and what should be, durable product. I want to thank ISCI because I ordered this just before they announced their holiday discount. I contacted them to see if I could be grandfathered in and they promptly refunded me the 15%. I thought that was pretty awesome. I was having trouble deciding to make this purchase due to the $1395 price tag, but now seeing the quality of the product in person and adding the discount to it, I have no regrets and am looking forward to getting it installed.

    ISCI Front Brake.jpg

  6. #31
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    The Spyder1Attitude cat bypass came in this week as well. It does have a high heat paint applied to it, but I am going to have it ceramic coated along with the header pipes. Getting rid of the cat will not only reduce the heat, but allow the engine to breath the way it should. Between this, the Akrapovic exhaust and the PCV with AutoTune, I imagine I will have a significant torque and HP increase.

    Cat Bypass.jpg

  7. #32
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    The last of the items have now showed up. The PCV was actually on backorder and they held off shipping me the AutoTune until it came in. I think I did real good as far as pricing goes. Retail on the PCV is $499 and I paid $364. Retail on the AutoTune is $400 and I paid $305. I hope to have time over the holidays to get the headers ripped off, have the O2 bungs welded in and get the headers and cat bypass ceramic coated.

    Spyder PCV.jpg Spyder AutoTune.jpg

  8. #33
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    This is what's keeping me from tearing into the Spyder. It's my 2012 CRF250R. My three sons and I all belong to an MX club and we ride every Saturday from April through October. I need to get it back together to get the table space for the Spyder. At this point, everything is cleaned, greased and just needs to be assembled.

    CRF250R-1.jpg CRF250R-2.jpg

  9. #34
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Now that I've got some time off over the holidays, I started to tear into the Spyder. The first thing I wanted to do was remove the entire exhaust system so that I could get the header pipes and cat bypass pipe dropped off to my local shop to have them ceramic coated. Once I had all of the tupperware pulled off, this is what I saw.

    This was the view from the right side of the engine:

    Spyder - Right Side - Before - 1.jpg

    This was the view from the left side of the engine:

    Spyder - Left Side - Before - 1.jpg

    It was then that I decided that the KewlMetal air filter kit was a MUST. The resonator on the left side pulled out fairly easily, but getting the gigantic air box out took much time and patience. I had to remove both left and right side frame rails as well. It was a total pain, but worth it in the end.

    Here is what the right side looks like now. You can easily get to the header pipe as well as the front cylinder spark plug and wire.

    Spyder - Right Side - After - 1.jpg Spyder - Right Side - After - 2.jpg

    Here is the left side - nothing but room to work now.

    Spyder - Left Side - After - 1.jpg

    The only thing that I don't like about the KewlMetal kit is that is uses air from within the tupperware and others who have measured this have stated that it runs 5-10 degrees higher than the air drawn by the stock air box. However, since I am adding a PCV with AutoTune, I do not see this as an issue.

    Lastly, after seeing how packed everything is under the tupperware, how on earth can you get any air circulating underneath there? I know I've seen numerous threads talking about how to get air moving in there, but I don't see how you can unless you remove the OEM air box and resonator. The entire top and front of the engine compartment is now wide open.

  10. #35
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    That sure looks like some bery serrious surgery! on getting through it!
    Are you going to wrap your pipes, after you have them coated? They sure run close tothe tank on the left, and pretty near everything on the right!

    Here's to wishing you continued success on your "journey"!
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  11. #36
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Great updates + pics.

    Keep up the work. We are all looking for the final product.

    Jerry

  12. #37
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Are you going to wrap your pipes, after you have them coated?
    That is a great question, but I think the answer is no. I don't like the idea of using the heat wrap because of the moisture retention issue. In addition, since I currently do not have any heat related issues with my 2013, I think that doing both is overkill.

    In the research that I've done, I have also seen that doing both could cause the O2 sensors to wear out quicker due to the excess heat that is being trapped in the headers. I don't know if it is true, but I just think that doing one or the other is sufficient.

  13. #38
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    Thanks! Those are VERY good points, that I had not considered...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  14. #39
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartj239 View Post
    That is a great question, but I think the answer is no. I don't like the idea of using the heat wrap because of the moisture retention issue. In addition, since I currently do not have any heat related issues with my 2013, I think that doing both is overkill.

    In the research that I've done, I have also seen that doing both could cause the O2 sensors to wear out quicker due to the excess heat that is being trapped in the headers. I don't know if it is true, but I just think that doing one or the other is sufficient.
    I don't think moisture would be a significant issue under the Tupperware and if you bike stays indoors it help keep water off the bike.

    For you, I think the wrap is still a good option to consider for 3 reasons:
    - noise reduction. Your exhaust will give you a good exhaust sound, the wrap eliminates the other engine noises.
    - reduce gas tank temp. The exhaust pipe runs next to the tank. Even though ceramic may help keep exhaust flow up/and some heat in it still allows heat to leake out.
    - you have the parts of and it is cheap to do so. It will never be easier.

    jerry

  15. #40
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacetiger View Post
    I don't think moisture would be a significant issue under the Tupperware and if you bike stays indoors it help keep water off the bike.

    For you, I think the wrap is still a good option to consider for 3 reasons:
    - noise reduction. Your exhaust will give you a good exhaust sound, the wrap eliminates the other engine noises.
    - reduce gas tank temp. The exhaust pipe runs next to the tank. Even though ceramic may help keep exhaust flow up/and some heat in it still allows heat to leake out.
    - you have the parts of and it is cheap to do so. It will never be easier.

    jerry
    I'm hoping to drop the pipes off tomorrow (if they're open) and I will ask and see what they say about wrapping the pipes in addition to the ceramic coating. The stuff I have read about doing both shys me away from wanting to do the wrapping. I'll let you know what they say. I am definitely going to put some heat tape on the gas tank as well while I'm in there.

  16. #41
    Very Active Member spacetiger's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention the heat affect on the other parts like rubber [vacuum] hoses and electrical lines. I really wish Can Am went with double walled exhaust pipes for those pieces under the bodywork.

    Jerry

  17. #42
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacetiger View Post
    Forgot to mention the heat affect on the other parts like rubber [vacuum] hoses and electrical lines. I really wish Can Am went with double walled exhaust pipes for those pieces under the bodywork.

    Jerry
    The good thing about the ceramic coating is that it coats the inside of the headers as well as the outside. Since there is no double walled pipe, this is probably as good as it's going to get. Everything I've read up to now says that the ceramic coating is far superior to the heat wrap, but I will ask for opinions when I drop them off and I'll report back.

  18. #43
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    Good Luck!
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  19. #44
    Registered Users BigJohnP's Avatar
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    Default Need an explanation

    Please. explain to me what you calling a CAT. Not at all sure what that is. I got everything else. Thanks

  20. #45
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    That would be the catalytic converter...
    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  21. #46
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    That would be the catalytic converter...
    Bob has it right. Spyder1Attitude makes a Y-pipe that allows you to eliminate the catalytic converter. Luckily I live in a state that does not do emission testing as part of the yearly inspection, so it can be removed.

  22. #47
    Registered Users BigJohnP's Avatar
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    Default Over heat

    And now I understand where the heating problem comes from. I'm sorry did not realize they had a Cat on a Syder. If you remove it does it void the warranty?

  23. #48
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Are you going to wrap your pipes, after you have them coated?
    I got the pipes dropped off yesterday and I asked them if there was any benefit to wrapping the headers after they have been coated and they said NO! They said that the heat wrap will actually destroy the ceramic over time and to not do it. When I got home, I did some of my own research on it and I did find some forums where people said that they did indeed ruin the ceramic coating due to adding the heat wrap to it. From what he was saying, and from what I understood, the heat wrap is actually abrasive and it expands at a different rate than the ceramic which can cause it to crack and flake.

    Also, he asked if I wanted the black or silver ceramic coating and I asked what the difference was. He said that black can withstand higher temps ~ 2000 degrees and the silver is good up to ~ 1400 degrees. However, the silver is more durable and requires little or no maintenance (cleaning / polishing). Since the Spyder is actually a motorcycle, he said to go with the silver as the header won't get anywhere near the 1400 degree mark.

    I won't have the pipes back for at least a week. I'll post pictures as soon as I get them.
    Last edited by stewartj239; 12-27-2013 at 03:12 PM.

  24. #49
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    2010 RT A&C, RT-L, RT-L , Orbital Blue, Cognac, Jet Black

  25. #50
    Very Active Member stewartj239's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJohnP View Post
    And now I understand where the heating problem comes from. I'm sorry did not realize they had a Cat on a Syder. If you remove it does it void the warranty?
    The CAT is no doubt a source of heat on the Spyder and it sits right underneath the gas tank. On top of that, especially at a stop, heat does rise into the tupperware. As far as the warranty goes, if the need ever arose, you could always put the cat back on.

    Another thing the shop told me is that ceramic coating the headers can reduce the emitted heat by over 50%. I'll let you guys know what the total cost was when they're done.

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