Making the 2013 Spyder RT-S "Perfect"

[spacetiger]

Any early reports on the MPG with these changes?

Jerry

[stewartj239]

Any early reports on the MPG with these changes?

Jerry

I haven't been tracking it so far, but will starting with the next fill up. I am pretty sure the needle is moving quicker than before which is what I would expect. When I added the PCV to my VFR, I lost about 4 MPG.

[stewartj239]

Any early reports on the MPG with these changes?

Jerry

I'm getting 27 MPG, down from 30 MPG. That is about what I expected. The bike is running flawlessly.

[stewartj239]

Today I checked the trim tables for the second time and have posted the trims for each cylinder below. The AutoTune is still adjusting both cylinders independently and just like the last time I checked the trims, it is making more adjustments to the rear cylinder than the front. The AutoTune adjustments made have mainly leaned out the front cylinder and richened up the rear cylinder. I know that V-Twins have a reputation for the rear cylinder running hotter / leaner than front and I think that these trim tables help to support that theory.

Trim Table - Cylinder 1 - 2014.05.04.jpg Trim Table - Cylinder 2 - 2014.05.04.jpg

[stewartj239]

I decided to roll the dice and had the ECM update done today on my bike. I put about 35 miles on it tonight and luckily the bike is running just fine. Right now, I have the AutoTune set to adjust at +/- 20%, so I'm sure it was adjusting that whole time. After my ride to / from work tomorrow, that will put me at 100 miles, so I'll check the trim tables tomorrow night and see which way the AutoTune is adjusting the new ECM map. I'm hoping to tell if the new map has richer fuel settings over the original map.

[Magdave]

I decided to roll the dice and had the ECM update done today on my bike. I put about 35 miles on it tonight and luckily the bike is running just fine. Right now, I have the AutoTune set to adjust at +/- 20%, so I'm sure it was adjusting that whole time. After my ride to / from work tomorrow, that will put me at 100 miles, so I'll check the trim tables tomorrow night and see which way the AutoTune is adjusting the new ECM map. I'm hoping to tell if the new map has richer fuel settings over the original map.

That is what I wanted to know what did they do with the ECM update?

[stewartj239]

I checked the trim tables following the ECM update and honestly, the results weren't what I was expecting. Maybe I am looking at them wrong, but here is how the AutoTune tables work.


Below is the Target AFR table. Because the PCV for the Spyder comes with the O2 Optimizer module, the rows and columns in the upper left quadrant have a value of 0. This is because the O2 Optimizer controls the stock closed loop area. The rest of the cells have a target AFR of 13.2 and are controlled by the AutoTune.


AutoTune Target AFR Table.jpg


Here is the current fuel map for cylinder #1. The cells controlled by the O2 Optimizer have a hard coded value of 8 - which will richen things up by 8% and this works in conjunction with the O2 Optimizer. The rest of the cells show the trims that are made over the OEM map. Notice that at the higher RPM and throttle positions, the AutoTune leans out the map across the board.


New Fuel Table - Cylinder 1 - 2014.05.20.jpg


Now here are the two trim tables from both cylinders that I just pulled. This is how they looked after running for 100 miles following the ECM update.


Trim Table - Cylinder 1 - 2014.05.20.jpg Trim Table - Cylinder 2 - 2014.05.20.jpg


Assuming that the ECM update contained a new map to address the heat issues, I would expect the bike to have been running richer than the existing base map that my Spyder came with which my AutoTune has been adjusting to up to this point. Therefore, I expected the trim tables to show negative trims throughout to adjust down. There are actually more trims on the plus side, than the negative side.


To me, if the ECM update changed the map, I don't think it changed it much compared to the map that was already in my bike. Of course, there is the possibility that not all bikes came with the same map from the factory. Mine was a late 2013 production unit and I have never complained about heat issues, so it is possible that I already had an updated map before it left the factory. Any thoughts?

[Ramjet]

Stewart I am not sure what the new MAPS were but what I have noticed with the updates is worse performance this is the issues I am experiencing; More hesitation till optimum engine temp is reached and more popping during shifting some of that is probably because of the air box removal and increased awareness of the intake noise but that slight hiccup seems more pronounced now.

Now even with 82 degree ambient today the bike runs very cool one of the indicators is the temp of the fuel tank filler cap area 38% lower temps than prior to the huge money dump I did with updates.

I will say I am seriously considering the Auto tune if I do not sell this machine first. That seems like the best way to further increase performance and fine tune the engine.

[stewartj239]

Stewart I am not sure what the new MAPS were but what I have noticed with the updates is worse performance this is the issues I am experiencing; More hesitation till optimum engine temp is reached and more popping during shifting some of that is probably because of the air box removal and increased awareness of the intake noise but that slight hiccup seems more pronounced now.

Now even with 82 degree ambient today the bike runs very cool one of the indicators is the temp of the fuel tank filler cap area 38% lower temps than prior to the huge money dump I did with updates.

I will say I am seriously considering the Auto tune if I do not sell this machine first. That seems like the best way to further increase performance and fine tune the engine.

My impression based on the AutoTune adjustments is that the map didn't change or it didn't change much. I took the chance with the ECM update because I knew that the AutoTune would adjust it back to where it should be and I wanted the other software updates that might have come along with the new map.

If you are thinking about adding the AutoTune to your bike, I can say that it works and it works well. As stated, my bike is running perfect from all perspectives and checking the trim tables confirms that the maps are being adjusted constantly.

[3 Wheel Addict]

I really thought the ECM update was going to be a huge help with the heat issues and as the outside temps started climbing the same old issues returned. I did feel the engine ran smoother but who cares if you can't ride it because of heat and fuel smells. Based on your findings with the maps it's hard to tell if it actually changed anything??

[stewartj239]

Based on your findings with the maps it's hard to tell if it actually changed anything??

My theory was this: I've been running the PCV and AutoTune for the last 2 months using the map that came in my Spyder and the assumption was that it causes the Spyder to run lean. The AutoTune has made adjustments on top of that original map and things have leveled off to where the AutoTune wants them, so things were then stable. After the ECM update was made and assuming it came with a new map that was richer, I would expect the AutoTune to then make changes to lean things down to get back to where it was with the original map. I did not see that happen.

[Ramjet]

Where did the idea that the ECM update was to richen the AF? I am just wondering if we speculated that BRP was going to do this?

Just wondering because my dealer has no idea because BRP keeps everything close to the vest and did not say.

As far as the "heat" issue that is no longer an issue for me the machine runs very cool with the mods I did Temps today again in the 83 deg F and I did a trip with the trailer on and 200 lbs of cargo on the return trip temps on the machine and me where real good the tank cap was cool to the touch as was the glove box.

the other thing I realized the machine likes to be warm to run the best as in operating temps cooler or warmup is where I see the hiccups. once warmed up things are just fine.

I almost am considering getting a AF gauge and putting it on the bike for while and see what's going on.

[stewartj239]

Where did the idea that the ECM update was to richen the AF? I am just wondering if we speculated that BRP was going to do this?

The was just pure speculation on my part. With some bikes running hot and even melting parts, a lean engine can cause such things to happen. The ECM update states that it addresses the heat issue, so my thinking was that it would include a richer map as I don't know what else they could have done to make that statement.

Just wondering because my dealer has no idea because BRP keeps everything close to the vest and did not say.

My dealer said the same thing. They have called in the past to ask what specific changes an update addresses and BRP will not divulge that information.

[stewartj239]

I can now say with confidence that I am pretty sure that the ECM update did indeed include a richer map. Even though my Spyder was running great, I decided to get the ECM update because I wanted all of the other software updates that are bundled with it. I figured that once it was done, I'd need to keep an eye on things.

About a week after the ECM update, the Spyder's check engine light came on and it threw a fault code of P0130 which indicated a problem with an O2 sensor. After pulling the O2 sensors, one of them had carbon build up on it which indicated that the engine was running too rich. This helped to support the belief that the ECM update did indeed install a richer base map on the Spyder. For the default map on the PCV, the blanket closed loop area is hardcoded to a value of 8%. Since the Spyder's map was now richer, the 8% was still being applied which now was causing the Spyder to run too rich.

After discussing the problem with Dyno Jet, they recommended reducing the value to as low as 0% and then increment it accordingly until the proper setting is achieved that does not trigger the check engine light. I ended up setting the value to 1% and after a few rides, the check engine cleared. I am now in the process of bumping that value to see where the threshold is.

For those who don't understand how the PCV works on the Spyder, the % of enrichment is fixed from 0-60% throttle and from 1250-7500 RPM. Everything above that is where the AutoTune takes over. Once I figure out what the new PCV value should be for new ECM update, I will post it.

[rarerockmusic]

I just got the power commander, replacing the juice Box Pro, was going to add the Autotune, but from reading all your information I'm gathering that if we normally are in the 0-7500 rpm range while driving, then installing the Autotune would be redundant? In thinking this, the best way to see how the bike is actually running in closed loop, and to adjust this area, a dyno test or tune would be the only option. If I'm understanding all this correctly.

[stewartj239]

I just got the power commander, replacing the juice Box Pro, was going to add the Autotune, but from reading all your information I'm gathering that if we normally are in the 0-7500 rpm range while driving, then installing the Autotune would be redundant? In thinking this, the best way to see how the bike is actually running in closed loop, and to adjust this area, a dyno test or tune would be the only option. If I'm understanding all this correctly.

I agree with your strategy if you ride mainly in that RPM range and below 60% throttle. I am a revver so I would say that most of my time is 60% throttle and above. In that throttle area and above the 7500 RPM range, the AutoTune is constantly adjusting. Now that I kind of skewed the PCV base map by doing the ECM update, I do hope to get a custom tune at some point. Until then, I am going to adjust the closed loop area manually until I get the check engine light to come again, then I will trim it back and leave it there until I can get the custom tune done.

[rarerockmusic]

So safe to say, for cruising, i should just save the cost of the autotune and just get a Dyno done. BTW nice job on your Spyder. Also the wiring had me confused, my spyder is a 2010, but i had to hook to the 2nd wire from left, Power Commander said a 0-5 volt analog wire, i had the juice Box on the 3rd wire, colors are difficult to see, but bike started hard after the change but seems smoother just revving it sitting still, no more fluctuations at any rpm, still have to road test but you see what i see out the window.

[rarerockmusic]

Also while reading your post, going back to the rear spark plug, I've always wondered and asked in other post, that the evap canister on the 2010's ran to the rear cylinder, i don't know if the 2013's are the same, but that extra fuel/fumes coming from the evap, wouldn't that also add to that cylinder running richer than the front?

[stewartj239]

So safe to say, for cruising, i should just save the cost of the autotune and just get a Dyno done.

I would say yes. Originally, that was my plan, but could not find a shop around here that would do a custom map for the Spyder. That is why I went with the AutoTune. Now that I have learned about the closed loop "fixed" setting AND after doing the ECM update, I would like to get a custom map done, so I might have to expand my search for a shop that will do it.

Also the wiring had me confused, my spyder is a 2010, but i had to hook to the 2nd wire from left, Power Commander said a 0-5 volt analog wire, i had the juice Box on the 3rd wire, colors are difficult to see

Others have had the same issue. The directions have thrown a number of people for a loop on the installation.

[stewartj239]

Also while reading your post, going back to the rear spark plug, I've always wondered and asked in other post, that the evap canister on the 2010's ran to the rear cylinder, i don't know if the 2013's are the same, but that extra fuel/fumes coming from the evap, wouldn't that also add to that cylinder running richer than the front?

That is a good question that I don't know the answer to. I would guess that the 2010 and 2013 routing would be the same. Either way, it is something that I never considered. The pictures of those plugs were from running 4500 miles with the evap cansiter in place.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for all of the valuable research!!
ANYBODY with an earlier RT can benefit from your efforts.

[rarerockmusic]

Maybe you can help, what wire on the TPS did you hook the power commander to?

[stewartj239]

Maybe you can help, what wire on the TPS did you hook the power commander to?

I don't remember off the top of my head. Did you check the earlier pages in this thread? I think I took a picture of it which shows which wire it was.

[rarerockmusic]

I don't remember off the top of my head. Did you check the earlier pages in this thread? I think I took a picture of it which shows which wire it was.

Found it thanks, only problem is mine shows 100% throttle in the software at any throttle position? More tech calls.

[rarerockmusic]

Found it thanks, only problem is mine shows 100% throttle in the software at any throttle position? More tech calls.

Ok after all this it's not the be/yl wire, it's 2nd from the right, i believe the be/gy and it's the 0.4 volt wire, now if tech support can figure out how to tell me why throttle % reads 0 at idle but won't go past 6% wide open the bike may start running right?