initial oil consumption

[vnmous1]

(for those of you on other forums, sorry for the dual posting)
Checked the oil at 500 miles and was down a little over a half quart. Anyone else have similar usage at that point? My guess is that it is down that much based on the first 300 miles; Detroit to Chicago in about 6 hours. Lots of 55/65/75 mph varying and stops for 30 min or more about every 1.5 hours. Max rpm was about 5k for the first 200 miles, up to 6.5k after that to about 400 miles. Probably not enough pressure to seat the rings, but enough that there won't be any long term probs. After 500, some low load trips to 8k through the first couple of gears.

In any case, I topped it off and will have 1st maint done prior to 700.

Oh...one other quick thing...the Spyder is actually my wifes and I had her out for lessons tonight. She did great and felt confident. Her first time with a bike with gears. So, I decided to measure off the turning radius so she can talk with the license examiner and explain to him/her why hers is huge compared to the 2-wheeled 250s. I got 24 ft!!! Yowsah!

I was doing some full-lock acellerating turns and actually starved the thing. I was stunned that I could do that with injection but it was pulling more Gs than a conventional bike would. It wasn't the tank pickup as I had a half tank. Anyone else starved one??

Thanks

bj

[beerman]

Perhaps you were not starving it, I beleive it was the traction and stability control working. They do that when they sense rear tire slipage while turning. I a straight line you can melt the rear tire if you want but not while turning.

[BRPjunkie]

Probably not starving it out, but VSS kicking in.

[bjeffrey]

At 3200 miles I've been noticing my mpg decreasing so I pulled the Spyder 1/2 into the garage. Checked tire pressure..okay, pulled the side cover off and pulled the oil dipstick out...NOTHING. Wiped it off ..screwed it back in, pulled it out (okay cut with the jokes)....Nothing. Dealership was closed so I ran up to the local auto parts store and picked up some 10w40 synthetic cycle oil, they didn't have the 5w40. I had to add almost a full quart.

I was set to take a 2 hr highway trip on the bike up to Midland, Mi for a job interview the next day, if I hadn't checked the oil that could have been bad.

I'm still thinking I was shorted on the initial 600 mile oil change / checkup at the dealership. Am I wrong? could this be using that much oil?

[sabunim5]

bjeffrey, You could have burnt some oil in that many miles. You may also be losing some of the oil through the crankcase breather into the airbox. If so, it drains out of the airbox on the front right side. Pull your front right panels and see if there is oil that has dripped out of the right front of the airbox. It has been a common problem. I reported it to my dealer.
sabunim5

[bjeffrey]

Thanks sabunim5 I will check the airbox. I know now I need to check the oil level more often. My dealership is backed up a week for Spyder work (so they say) so I'll be changing the oil myself.

[NancysToy]

[quote=vnmous1;41468I was doing some full-lock acellerating turns and actually starved the thing. I was stunned that I could do that with injection but it was pulling more Gs than a conventional bike would. It wasn't the tank pickup as I had a half tank. Anyone else starved one??
[/quote]
Are you sure it just wasn't the VSS kicking in? Fuel injection shouldn't starve.
-Scotty

[SpyderMark]

At 3200 miles I've been noticing my mpg decreasing so I pulled the Spyder 1/2 into the garage. Checked tire pressure..okay, pulled the side cover off and pulled the oil dipstick out...NOTHING.

You didn't mention whether the engine was up to operating temp, or if you followed the FULL procedure for checking the oil. I know it may seem crazy, but there is a specific procedure for checking the oil that if not followed can result in inaccurate readings.

From page 82 of the Spyder Operator's Guide:

NOTICE:

To obtain a precise reading of the engine oil level, follow this procedure and make sure engine is at normal operating temperature.

1. Park the vehicle on a firm, level surface.
2. Start the engine and let it run at idle for at least 30 seconds.
3. Stop the engine.
4. Remove the left middle side panel.
5. Unscrew and remove oil dipstick.
6. Wipe the dipstick clean.
7. Reinstall and screw in the dipstick completely.
8. Again, unscrew and remove the dipstick.
9. Check the oil level on the dipstick. It should be near or equal to the upper mark.

Regards,

Mark

[bjt]

I'm curious, SpyderMark or anyone else, how much variance can there be if you check the oil on a level surface with the engine cold? Is it just a matter of a few mils on the dipstick or the difference between showing full and showing empty?

[vnmous1]

I think you guys are right...probably stability control. As I said...I've been taking up the rev range now (turned 600 tonight) so I'll see what usage looks like once I've had the service done and now that I've started to stand on it a bit.

b j

[SpyderMark]

I'm curious, SpyderMark or anyone else, how much variance can there be if you check the oil on a level surface with the engine cold? Is it just a matter of a few mils on the dipstick or the difference between showing full and showing empty?

That's a good question -- I've never checked! My assumption, based on all the hoopla in the manual and on the label, is BRP determined the difference to be significant.

I've been wondering if this might have anything to do with the problems some have seen with oil in the crankcase breather tube going to the airbox. The Lycoming O-320 installed in our AA-5 (it's an airplane) was very fussy about the oil level. The manual said between four and eight quarts, but if you put in anything over six she would just spit it out the crankcase vent... and all over the belly -- what a mess!

I'll check the wifey's Spyder when I get home from work tonight to see where it checks when cold (I know it checked full after our last ryde).

Regards,

Mark

[Way2Fast]

I'm curious, SpyderMark or anyone else, how much variance can there be if you check the oil on a level surface with the engine cold? Is it just a matter of a few mils on the dipstick or the difference between showing full and showing empty?

The reason BRP tells you to check the oil after running the engine is because the Spyder uses a dry sump lubrication system. When oil is allowed to sit in the storage tank for a length of time (as in a cold engine) there is a chance that the tank valve might leak and allow oil to drain out of the storage tank and go back into the engine. If this happens, the dipstick will show a false reading. Adding oil will overfill the system. To my knowledge the manufacturers of ALL dry sump engines instruct you to check oil soon after shutting the engine off to get the most accurate reading.

Richard

[SpyderMark]

I'm curious, SpyderMark or anyone else, how much variance can there be if you check the oil on a level surface with the engine cold? Is it just a matter of a few mils on the dipstick or the difference between showing full and showing empty?

OK, I usually check the oil in Wifey's Spyder after we get back from a ride. Last time I checked (last weekend) level was right at the full mark on the dipstick. BTW, her Spyder hasn't used ANY oil since I did the break in and initial oil change (2,000+ miles).

I checked Wifey's Spyder last night when I got home; it's been sitting for a couple of days. Oil level indicated right at the add line.

I'll check it again after our next ride just to be sure, but I'm confident, at least on Wifey's Spyder, the oil level will indicate low if the SOG procedure isn't followed.

Regards,

Mark

[NancysToy]

People have offered many suggestions as to improvements for the Spyder. Nobody has mentioned the ridiculous oil level checking procedure. They could easily weld a bung to the tank at the proper level, put a bullseye sight-glass in there, and put a small view hole in the cover. My Beemer has this, albeit for a wet sump system. It is a pain to get down on your knees to peer in the hole, but lots less trouble than removing the cover. Are you listening BRP?
-Scotty

[Putt-Putt]

DITTO

[bjeffrey]

When I checked my oil level I had just riden home from work on it. I checked it...added 1/2 a qt, let it sit for about an hr, went back out and ran it for 30 sec or so...checked it again and had to add almost another 1/2 qt to get it to the full line. I'm changing the oil myself this weekend and will keep a close eye on it after that.

Following "proper" procedures for checking oil level I still think I was shorted oil at the initial 600 mile checkup.

[trikester]

At about 400 miles my Spyder's oil level (checked as per instructions) is still right at the full mark. I checked it when I picked it up at the dealers (because of a previous horror story here on this forum) and it was at the full mark. So I have had no noticeable oil usage in about 400 miles.

[NancysToy]

I checked the oil at the dealer prior to delivery, too. Actually, they insisted, and showed me the procedure. Before the 625 mile checkup (at 850 miles) it was within tolerances. After they changed the oil, it was exactly correct. At 2,200 miles or so, it is still in the same place, and has been every time I checked. I always do the check after a reasonably long ride, shut down, take off my gear and the cover, start and run 30 seconds, then shut off and check. No observable oil usage.
-Scotty

[barb36jack31]

Just checked my oil after reading these posts. I checked it cold and the oil was in the middle of the dipstick. I then rode the machine until it was at operating temp. Pulled the panel off and checked the oil. The oil was very frothy on the dipstick, but was a bit higher on the stick than before. I still have no confidence that I am getting an accurate reading. Wish I just had a sight glass.

Jack H.

[smokster]

The reason BRP tells you to check the oil after running the engine is because the Spyder uses a dry sump lubrication system. When oil is allowed to sit in the storage tank for a length of time (as in a cold engine) there is a chance that the tank valve might leak and allow oil to drain out of the storage tank and go back into the engine. If this happens, the dipstick will show a false reading. Adding oil will overfill the system. To my knowledge the manufacturers of ALL dry sump engines instruct you to check oil soon after shutting the engine off to get the most accurate reading.

Richard

What happens if you over flow the system a bit?

[NancysToy]

What happens if you over flow the system a bit?

Oil level shouldn't really matter that much in a dry sump system, as long as there is sufficient oil to feed the pump, and not so much that the return overflows the tank when hot. BRPs tolerances seem to be low, though, judging from their exacting level checking procedure, and the narrow "safe" zone on the dipstick. Not sure of a reason. It does seem to be a small oil tank. Some folks have indicated oil level as the cause of excess blow-by into the air box, but I have seen nothing I would call proof of the theory. Not really that logical to me. Sure would like to hear a BRP engineer sound off on this topic for a while.
-Scotty

[Way2Fast]

I know it's a different engine, but the oil level is very critical in the Rotax 4-tec used in Sea-doo PWC. The engine runs best with the storage tank level only up to midway on the dipstick. Fill it to the upper level and the engine looses performance/rpm.

[SpyderMark]

When I checked my oil level I had just riden home from work on it. I checked it...added 1/2 a qt, let it sit for about an hr, went back out and ran it for 30 sec or so...checked it again and had to add almost another 1/2 qt to get it to the full line.

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

I'm sure part of the issue regarding BRP's exacting procedure to check the oil is expansion of the fluid (oil) when it gets hot. When a fluid gets hot it expands requiring more room to store the same volume. Try filling your fuel tank on a cold morning, then let it sit all day in the hot sun. I can almost guarantee the tank will overflow as the gas expands. For the oil to get hot, the engine must run for a period of time.

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Regards,

Mark

[NancysToy]

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Sounds like it may be "wet-sumping" a bit, with the check valve leaking by. Not a problem if it is not excessive, either filling the sump to the point of interference with the crank or overwhelming the scavenging pump, and not draining the oil tank too low.
-Scotty

[Way2Fast]

I wonder if a 30-second run after sitting for an hour was enough to get it to "normal operating tempurature." I know the SOG doesn't specify, but most report seeing three to four bars on the temp gage under normal circumstances. I would think that would be a good standard for "normal operating temperature."

I'm sure part of the issue regarding BRP's exacting procedure to check the oil is expansion of the fluid (oil) when it gets hot. When a fluid gets hot it expands requiring more room to store the same volume. Try filling your fuel tank on a cold morning, then let it sit all day in the hot sun. I can almost guarantee the tank will overflow as the gas expands. For the oil to get hot, the engine must run for a period of time.

Recently, I checked the oil at normal operating temp on our Spyder. The level on the dipstick indicated "full." Checked it again a few days later before starting and the level indicated "add."

Regards,

Mark

The 30 second "run" is not intended to get the oil to normal operating temperature, but rather to make sure the oil storage "dry sump" tank is filled. There might be a slight rise in oil level due to expansion when the engine is run longer, but it is not as significant as making sure the tank is at it's "operating level" when the dipstick is read.

Richard