I have had enough "spyder loving" from non 2013 owners

[3 Wheel Addict]

As as some have stated, it's not really the engine running too hot, it's that the heat has nowhere to escape from under the plastic quick enough.

I'm not sure that's it either, the panels and design is the same on all of the RT's and ST's if it was a matter the heat just not getting out then they would all have the issue, and most don't. I personally think it is an engine issue as some generate more heat in the exhaust that others, could be a mapping issue with the ECM. I have never seen my temp gauge above the half way mark so my engine is not hotter from a cooling standpoint. But it could be lean or the timing could be advanced too far?? These high tech computer engines have all of us with technical knowledge at a disadvantage, we can no longer change jets to richen an engine or move around a timing sensor to adjust timing, everything is controlled by the ECM and we are helpless. I know wrapping my exhaust pipes helped but won't know how much till it get hot out again.

[flamingobabe]

what is Len's opinion of the hot 2013 bikes? what does Lamont think? what does Scotty think about it? why can't the computer be re-programed to richen the fuel mixture sufficiently on these bikes?

EPA......but BRP is working on new mapping......I'll let Len, Lamont and Scotty answer for themselves

[Bob Denman]

Question:
Did you also wrap your fuel tank? Or wasn't that as much of an issue?
Glad to hear of workable solutions being tried!
I honestly think that we just need to find "the next step" in the process.

[SNOOPY]

I'm not sure that's it either, the panels and design is the same on all of the RT's and ST's if it was a matter the heat just not getting out then they would all have the issue, and most don't. I personally think it is an engine issue as some generate more heat in the exhaust that others, could be a mapping issue with the ECM. I have never seen my temp gauge above the half way mark so my engine is not hotter from a cooling standpoint. But it could be lean or the timing could be advanced too far?? These high tech computer engines have all of us with technical knowledge at a disadvantage, we can no longer change jets to richen an engine or move around a timing sensor to adjust timing, everything is controlled by the ECM and we are helpless. I know wrapping my exhaust pipes helped but won't know how much till it get hot out again.

This sounds a little contradictory to me? If it was running lean wouldn't your temp gauge also run hotter? Or do you believe the cooling system works so well it handles the heat...but the heat still shows up higher in the exhaust?

[SNOOPY]

Question:
Did you also wrap your fuel tank? Or wasn't that as much of an issue?
Glad to hear of workable solutions being tried!
I honestly think that we just need to find "the next step" in the process.

It would seem to me that if you wrapped the pipes that heat would then be greatly reduced from getting to the gas tank.

[Bob Denman]

But it sure has generated lots of "frank discussions".
Forums are what they are made, by the folks who are doing the talking...
I've only seen ONE forum that never fell into a two-sided scrap over an issue at one time or another; it was for an ATV brand that I really enjoyed. When folks found a problem; they'd bring it up (LOUDLY; at times ), and the rest of the gang would roll up their shirtsleeves, and get to it.
The apparent complexity of this one, is getting folks even MORE fturstrated. IF we can remember that we're all on the same side; WE can find the answers. It'd be great if BRP decides to come along for the ride; but I'm betting on the collective gray matter that exists right in here...

(While I stand back; out of the way! )

[SilverSurfer]

I am the President of the Maryland Spyder Web (www.meetup.com/marylandspyderweb) and host a roster of over 100 ryders. Of those who participate in our rydes, we have a handful of '13 RT owners. ... RT and ST. The majority, including myself own model years '10-'12.

By 'more heat than light, I mean ... more heat (emotion) than light (information).

We've had one of our 13 owners develop heat problems, and indeed ... it caused him nightmares with failed components, including his parking break linkage/cable from heat. Tracking his problem, we have generally learned that **specific to the RT,** the 13 model year has some internal design features, architecture and components that were/are, believe it or not, pre-design for the '14s. I cannot get more specific to this, as I'm not a tech. I'm simply providing macro information. The point is, the differences between the '13s, and the '10s - 12's, respectively, are sufficient in terms of air flow, connections and heat resolution to cause the common problems noted by '13 owners. I cannot attribute why some of the 13 problems don't occur uniformly across the model year ... perhaps production run in the series ... dunno.

My understanding is that BRP is working on the problem, diligently and with as much precision as possible, to re-deliver '13 owners the same surety as 10-12 owners have enjoyed, despite the demons that popped from their model years too ... all resolved either by BRP or after-market. Someone said BRP is a young company; they're not. The Spyder is a 12-year old concept, seven years in design and five years on the street. BRP goes back to 1942. The 998 v-twin was and continues to be used in other platforms, to include the Aprilla 1000RSV racing bike, a KTM model and in one of BRP's ATV models.

Our decision, as Spyder owners is whether or not we will commit to the product, which most of us have, some of us haven't and my sympathies to those who've had problems. Those who have 'had enough' are welcome to exercise their decision through the market; I certainly understand the frustration that builds when one looks out the window at a $30K plus investment that has problems ... But vitriol between owners of one model year vs. 13's or any other model or model year, just doesn't sound like a reality to me. We're all in it together and should be helping each other with information, let alone civil dialogue with the only resolution ... the manufacturer, its technicians and dealer support-maintenance chain.

Respectfully ...

Paul

[bscrive]

Earlier this year when my wife did her Spyder course for her license she wanted an STS really bad. She has a '09 GS. But, after hearing about the problems with the '13's she has decided that she will stick with her '09 for a few years until we hear that the heat issues are fixed. I know that most RT & ST owners are not having any problems but as we see it it is like playing Russian Roulette. There still is that chance of getting a bad one and I will not take the chance of spending 20k and getting a bad one. We just decided to make stuff for her Spyder so that she is more comfy on long rides. I really feel for those that have been having these problems with their bikes. If it was me I would probably be on the road in front of their head office protesting. I am only a couple of hours away from there. Hey maybe that would get their attention? All those that are having problems make a trip to their head office and protest. The media would be sure to show up.

[JKMSPYDER]

What is so weird about the '13 heat issues is that some owners have high heat issues like boiling gas, hot gas caps, and hot seats and legs while others, like me, don't have these issues. I did have the melting MC cap and heat issues on my left leg on my ST-S, but these have been fixed by the recall and exhaust wrap and heat tape. I am no engineer or computer geek, but it sounds to me like a software issue on Spyders that have the severe heat. Hopefully the computer geeks at BRP can come up with a software fix to cool the Spyders down.

[Bob Denman]

Perhaps an ECM re-flash (software), coupled with heat barriers, fans, and some more venting (Hardware) are what is needed...

[cuznjohn]

i am reading about mapping and ecu and epa, so aren't all bikes that come off the production line set up the same. you would figure that when in production motors are made the same way and when the ecu is mapped all of them have the same program installed, so why would one bike work fine with no heat issue and mine is so hot you can bake something in it. this is why i am confused. could it be that some ecu's have bad chips? all the body's are the same and all have the same amount of space for the motor. so that is why i think some people tolerate the heat better than others.

can someone with a bike that does not have a heat issue take temp readings of their bikes for us. i was running temps of 151 degrees at the gas cap and 170+ at the bottom vent on the right side with the bike warmed up and running with the fan on. so can someone with a good bike please take temp readings for us with problems

[Bob Denman]

Good idea!
We need osme numbers, for comparative purposes...

[3 Wheel Addict]

This sounds a little contradictory to me? If it was running lean wouldn't your temp gauge also run hotter? Or do you believe the cooling system works so well it handles the heat...but the heat still shows up higher in the exhaust?

Yes, I believe the cooling system has the capacity to handle the cooling of the engine very well. A lean burning or over advanced timing will promote hotter combustion temps and that will make the exhaust system hotter as well but the cooling system can handle the cylinder head temps but once the heat is in the pipes it can not be controlled anymore and relies on air movement over the pipes to control that extra heat. Air flow through the panels now may be ok for an ideal running motor but if that balance is tilted the airflow may not be enough.

[spyder3]

But it sure has generated lots of "frank discussions".
Forums are what they are made, by the folks who are doing the talking...
I've only seen ONE forum that never fell into a two-sided scrap over an issue at one time or another; it was for an ATV brand that I really enjoyed. When folks found a problem; they'd bring it up (LOUDLY; at times ), and the rest of the gang would roll up their shirtsleeves, and get to it.
The apparent complexity of this one, is getting folks even MORE fturstrated. IF we can remember that we're all on the same side; WE can find the answers. It'd be great if BRP decides to come along for the ride; but I'm betting on the collective gray matter that exists right in here...

(While I stand back; out of the way! )

Bob, the problem is we are not all on the same side. There are people with 2013 problems and those that support and are sympathetic to them. Then there are those that own a 2013 that have no issue, or claim to have no issues and can't understand why other 2013 owners are complaining. It's almost like they resent the accusation that the 2013 isn't a perfect bike and take it personal.

Then you have the ones who are tired of reading about the issues.

Well, heck thats an easy fix...STOP reading those threads and stop responding on them that your tired of reading about other peoples problems. Frankly, I'm tired of reading about how your tired of reading about other peoples real serious issues. Either stand behind these people and help get brp off there collective 's or leave them be. They have enough aggravation and money tied up in these machines and are getting no enjoyment out of them.


WE can find the answers. Really? I'll go with FB and hotglues collective experience along with other veterans who think differently. This is BRP's issue and collectively we are not all pulling together enough to make them do something about it. United we stand, divided we fall.

[Magdave]

Good idea!
We need osme numbers, for comparative purposes...

Bob you know I posted my numbers before and after the fixes I made. My problem is what is the end game? Sure I have lowered some of my temps but what will BRP allow us to do, what are they planning on doing without voiding the warranty? Is wrapping or ceramic coating the pipes allowable( my favorite solution) and will they pay for it? Dunno can't get a straight answer from BRP and my dealers tech is finishing Spyder school this week so how much can I trust them? As I said in a previous post at least BRP should let us talk to someone on their end that can talk nuts & bolts not case numbers and "see your dealer" answers. That is the most frustrating part to me. Some of us are pretty good wrenches and can do more and some already have. I am just sitting on my hands at this point because I do not want to do anything that might void the warranty if it causes something else to fail. There lies the frustration right at BRPs feet. I know (heard) they are working on a software solution but as mentioned by the Maryland Club this is more than that it is a test bed for the 14 hardware wise and software can only do so much. Where will we 2013 owners end up?

[cuznjohn]

Bob, the problem is we are not all on the same side. There are people with 2013 problems and those that support and are sympathetic to them. Then there are those that own a 2013 that have no issue, or claim to have no issues and can't understand why other 2013 owners are complaining. It's almost like they resent the accusation that the 2013 isn't a perfect bike and take it personal.

Then you have the ones who are tired of reading about the issues.

Well, heck thats an easy fix...STOP reading those threads and stop responding on them that your tired of reading about other peoples problems. Frankly, I'm tired of reading about how your tired of reading about other peoples real serious issues. Either stand behind these people and help get brp off there collective 's or leave them be. They have enough aggravation and money tied up in these machines and are getting no enjoyment out of them.


WE can find the answers. Really? I'll go with FB and hotglues collective experience along with other veterans who think differently. This is BRP's issue and collectively we are not all pulling together enough to make them do something about it. United we stand, divided we fall.

this is why i am asking all the people that say they don't have issues to take temp readings for us that do. warm the engine up and take the readings at and around the gas cap and the upper and lower right side vent with the engine running and the fan on and off

[Lamonster]

I guess it's time for me to jump in here. I too have a 2013 ST that runs hot, not motor hot but components hot. My right foot got so hot I couldn't keep it on the floor boards. Really surprised there has not been more complaints about that on the board. I've had to do a lot of work to mine to get it where I wanted to ride it. I've owned every make, model and year Spyder to date and the 2013 ST is the hottest of them all followed by my 2008. I really do feel bad for the folks that are having heat issues, I know if I couldn't work on my own bike I would be one of those people.

I will say that BRP does care and just because a fix has not happened soon enough for most of you that are having issues they are working on it. They are just as unhappy as you all, more so I would think seeing this has to have hurt the bottomline. At one time all we talked about here was the DPS and then it was the throttle bodies and now it's the heat. The DPS and the throttle body were real problems but are a thing of the past now. I'm sure we loss owners and members over those issues and we will most likely see some leave the product and the board over the heat issues. I hate that too but it is what it is and all I can do is to try and put it into perspective and hope for a good outcome. I'm confident there will be a resolve to these issues.

[anthony422]

I went through this thread... I have a headache....lol Just purchased my 2013 RT Limited in August and I'm the kind of person who doesn't believe what they hear and less than half of what I see, that being said, I Love my RT even with the fact that I broke down twice on a brand new machine and yes my evaporator canister was damaged due to heat AFTER THE FIX.... the right foot thing don't bother me and the seat does make me feel like I peed my pants I wont give up on it. Did speak to BRP felt I needed to let them know, but I, my dealer, and BRP are not on the same page. BRP clearly has no answer at this time, my dealer wont do a thing unless BRP tells them to, I'm sure its all about who pays me, I get that. So I take short rides but will not wander far because I don't trust the machine, this is based on MY experience only and for sharing purposes only. Yes When you put a power plant into an enclosed situation you need vent, In my situation when the bike is moving I'm good..... When the bike is not, I become bad, I guess BRP will come up with a fix and I believe it will be a combination of software and Mechanical, I always suggested to connect a bilge blower in parallel to the existing fan so when that kicks in it will also discharge hot air out of the cavity, wrapping the pipes I believe will help also only because there is heat generated from the pipes also, heat rises and that's why you really feel it on the very top (glove box, gas tank...ect ) software wise how about kicking the fan on a bit earlier and leaving it on longer.......Its not what you expect when you pay big bucks for a vehicle, and I certainly understand there are recalls on every car I've owned so that does happen, but we are talking about being able to travel with comfort and safety for 30k I expect that .... Funny thing I still love my Spyder

[spyder3]

Lamont, thanks for being honest about the heat issue. Your in a tough spot so i consider it a big deal for you to come forward.

[Magdave]

Well Dave, my friend, you have a real talent for authoring divisive threads,

Just looking for answers Roger where there are none to be had. Really though I am trying to get less division and people need to quit defending the 2013 or complaining about people who post bad things about it.It may seem counterintuitive but some people are getting it. I offended one guy in this thread who is gonna put me on ignore. How by telling the truth and insulting his 2013? I am beginning to feel like Jack Nicholson. Geeze we certainly can't hurt the resale value BRP already did that for us. I just wanna take 1 cross country trip and feel like it will be fun and reliable. I do not have that feeling now and am not sure I will ever unless BRP comes up with hardware solutions not tinfoil. I will not go quietly into that goodnight.....By the way thanks for the Code that is some good work

[Bob Denman]

"Lamont, thanks for being honest about the heat issue. Your in a tough spot so i consider it a big deal for you to come forward. "


Question(s): What would you suggest? Should folks try to make their own repairs (Hopefully getting some help from in here!)?
Do you think that BRP would void warranties if a person gets in under the Bodywork and makes changes?
(I realize that you don't speak for them; I'm just wondering what your experience with them would lead you to believe...)

[Magdave]

Lamont, thanks for being honest about the heat issue. Your in a tough spot so i consider it a big deal for you to come forward.

+1 Thanks for your report Lamont I knew we weren't imagining it

[MT Kevin]

105 degrees at fuel cap.
98 degrees at point of seat.(crotch area.)
169 degrees at radiator fan outlet.(air coming out on foot.)
this after 20 mile ride in 84 degree weather. The bike is still to hot for me but the customer does not mind it.

[anthony422]

My dealer also told me that out of all his vendors... BRP cares the most, if it helps just don't threaten them they will get a lawyer quicker than you finding your pen

[bluestratos]

It is good to hear that they are working on the 13's heat issue. To bad they would not take a good look a the other models, I have the block off plate, the cat guard and the lower splash removed and my right foot continues to get baked on a warm day. I am in the process right now off wrapping the pipes, getting the cat out and installing insulation/reflective blankets any where I can get them to try to reduce the "hot seat" and "thigh" roast.