VSS Fault and engine shutting off

[belowme29]

New to the forum, purchased a used '08 GS SM5 (originally 828 miles on it) in April. I now have over 6,000 miles on it.

Recently I have had a VSS Fault flash across my instrument panel and the engine shuts off. This is not while backing up. I had it while turning into a parking spot; about to turn left in front of a vehicle at a stop sign (this was a little un-nerving); while driving straight and coming to a stop light; backing up into my car port.

And these happen at different time intervals during a ride. Sometimes as soon as 10 minutes into a ride, and sometimes not for about 2 hours. There does not seem to be anything that is consistent, and A BRP dealer looked at it says that its a VCM issue - that I would need to get it replaced. I purchased an extended warranty - so this is not an issue, but I would like to point them in the right direction if there is a simpler solution.

Thanks for any help.

[coz]

you said you've had it to a dealer, some are way worse than others. are your battery cables clean and tight? are the jumpers under the seat tight? are all fuses good and seated tightly? are relays seated tight?is your battery strong ? is it original ?

i don't recall hearing this happen on a gs/rs, at least not lately. lot's of questions, right? just the things you check first when there is an electrical related problem . Scotty will chime in on this at some point, he's pretty busy building his house.

[Chupaca]

always a good place to start when thus happens. In many cases it is a glitch and useally caused by faulty electrical connections. Don,t just look, loosen and move then tighten back up don't loosen the negative bolt under the seat just don't. But do go to the battery and check...good luck..!

[Rick11Flor]

i took mine in to the dealer and had the recall, at that time i told them about the codes and the stalling. they apparently replaced the canister per BRP, looks like that somewhat took care of the issue. it has only stalled once since. and i think that is still not acceptable for the price we pay for these things

[belowme29]

you said you've had it to a dealer, some are way worse than others. are your battery cables clean and tight? are the jumpers under the seat tight? are all fuses good and seated tightly? are relays seated tight?is your battery strong ? is it original ?

i don't recall hearing this happen on a gs/rs, at least not lately. lot's of questions, right? just the things you check first when there is an electrical related problem . Scotty will chime in on this at some point, he's pretty busy building his house.

I had the battery out of the trike, to take off the back seat rest - cables are clean and connections are tight. I checked the fuses and all are good. I have not checked the relays (you are talking about the ones with the fuses - right?) so I will do that next. Jumper cables under the seat have not been checked, so another thing to check.

I do not know if the battery is original - do they have a manufacture date on them? I will use a volt meter to check on the voltage/amperage that it has before start, during start and during idle.

Thank you for answering back to my question so quickly. Second post and I am thrilled that I have joined this site.

[belowme29]

i took mine in to the dealer and had the recall, at that time i told them about the codes and the stalling. they apparently replaced the canister per BRP, looks like that somewhat took care of the issue. it has only stalled once since. and i think that is still not acceptable for the price we pay for these things

The dealer checked my S/N and said that all recalls were performed on the trike. I will check on connections, look over the fuses again and check out the relays. If I cannot find anything I will drop it off at a dealer to see what they can find.

[NancysToy]

If the dealer checked the faults codes, and said it needed a VCM, he is probably right. If you have the extended warranty, have them fix it. If it is something else, they will have to do it until they get it right.

[belowme29]

If the dealer checked the faults coes, and said it needed a VCM, he is probably right. If you have the extended warranty, have them fix it. If it is something else, they will have to do it until they get it right.

Well what they said is that the codes were telling him that it was either the VCM or the back tire sensor. They lifted the back end, rotated the tire and they could see it on the BUDS program - so they said that if it happened again that it would be the VCM. They said that its the brains of the bike, and that it costs around $1500.

The one thing is that they never checked fuses, relays, battery, cable connections or any other connections. So I will do this and try to take it for another ride, if its not too cold here on the weekend.

Thanks for answering - I love the quick response.

[MikeinGA]

Well what they said is that the codes were telling him that it was either the VCM or the back tire sensor. They lifted the back end, rotated the tire and they could see it on the BUDS program - so they said that if it happened again that it would be the VCM. They said that its the brains of the bike, and that it costs around $1500.

The one thing is that they never checked fuses, relays, battery, cable connections or any other connections. So I will do this and try to take it for another ride, if its not too cold here on the weekend.

Thanks for answering - I love the quick response.

I would get a Battery Tender Jr. and when the your Spyder is not in use, keep it on the battery tender. It's a good idea to install the quick disconnect to the battery. Get the battery tested (load test) to see is the battery in good shape (most auto parts stores do this for free). You can get a battery tender at Amazon.com (see the links below) and it's a good idea to get the extension cable. That's IMHO.

http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...xgy_auto_img_z
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...=pd_sim_auto_3

Mike

[belowme29]

So I looked at the battery. Good voltage and amperage before start up, better numbers once started and idling. I found that the positive connector to the battery had some corrosion on it, remove the connector, removed the corrosion and reconnected.

Went for a ride for 3 hours today - all was going well for 2.5 and I thought I had it beat. Took a ramp off of I-77 and just as I was getting to the stop the bike stalled and gave me the trike/squiggly line symbol and VSS Fault code. It seems like the stalling only occurs when the bike goes to an idle speed after some driving - does not matter what speed I have been driving it, just that the bike is idling when it stalls.

I will hold off on bringing it to the dealer until I can go over all connections and use dielectric gel to make sure that I have good connections everywhere. Plus I will get my battery tested to see if it needs to be replaced - it sure seems like a low voltage thing since it happens when the engine slows down.

[NancysToy]

So I looked at the battery. Good voltage and amperage before start up, better numbers once started and idling. I found that the positive connector to the battery had some corrosion on it, remove the connector, removed the corrosion and reconnected.

Went for a ride for 3 hours today - all was going well for 2.5 and I thought I had it beat. Took a ramp off of I-77 and just as I was getting to the stop the bike stalled and gave me the trike/squiggly line symbol and VSS Fault code. It seems like the stalling only occurs when the bike goes to an idle speed after some driving - does not matter what speed I have been driving it, just that the bike is idling when it stalls.

I will hold off on bringing it to the dealer until I can go over all connections and use dielectric gel to make sure that I have good connections everywhere. Plus I will get my battery tested to see if it needs to be replaced - it sure seems like a low voltage thing since it happens when the engine slows down.

The presence of the traction control icon indicates to me that there may be a problem with the ABS sensor(s). Check for cleanliness and missing teeth on the sensor disc(s). Probably in the rear, but it could be the front. Basically the Spyder is sensing that the front and rear speeds don't match. Also check the tire air pressures, and that the proper tire sizes are fitted. You should check the ABS harness electrical connectors, too, and check the wiring for abrasion damage near the wheels, as well as check for a loose sensor. Finally, have the dealer check the steering sensor calibration, with the steering properly centered. If the Spyder senses rear wheel slip and the handlebars turned at the same time, it will trigger the VSS and cut back the engine if necessary.

The problem could also lie in a corroded VSS connector, water in the VSS connector (or an ABS connector)...or less likely a bad VSS, but I suspect it may be closer to the sensors or a tire mismatch issue. Checking for active fault codes when it happens could help pin it down...or have the dealer tell you the exact faults recorded.

[wrbrown]

I had a similar experience with my 2009 GS. I had replaced my spark plug wires and everything seemed good until a few days later and it shut down going into a parking spot. It said "VSS FAULT CHECK DPS" this continued a number of times, I had it to the dealer and they could not find any problems. It might not happen for hundreds of miles and then it would do the same thing. Always at idle or a very slow speed. the dealer finally asked if I had changed anything. I said I had put on aftermarket wires. They told me to put the old ones back on and see if that helped. I did as they asked and have never had the problem return !! I don't know if this will help you or not or if it is even related to your problem but it is something to consider. Good luck.

[bobnaquin]

Along with everything everyone else said you may want to see if you are not pressing the brake while still having the throttle open. You indicate that in every case you are using the brake. If you are also holding open the throttle, it causes the nanny to be confused and you get the VSS and a limp mode. Just a thought.

[belowme29]

I had a similar experience with my 2009 GS. I had replaced my spark plug wires and everything seemed good until a few days later and it shut down going into a parking spot. It said "VSS FAULT CHECK DPS" this continued a number of times, I had it to the dealer and they could not find any problems. It might not happen for hundreds of miles and then it would do the same thing. Always at idle or a very slow speed. the dealer finally asked if I had changed anything. I said I had put on aftermarket wires. They told me to put the old ones back on and see if that helped. I did as they asked and have never had the problem return !! I don't know if this will help you or not or if it is even related to your problem but it is something to consider. Good luck.

Interesting - and thank you for sharing.

The mods that I have done to my Spyder were done after I started having the VSS Fault and engine shutdown. I added LED lights on the front of the bike and I added a brake LED. But nothing directly to the engine. And I know that there have been some issues with electronics causing the VSS Fault and engine shutdown.

This forum is great because everyone has had so many different experiences and everyone shares. Please continue, this is great.

[belowme29]

Along with everything everyone else said you may want to see if you are not pressing the brake while still having the throttle open. You indicate that in every case you are using the brake. If you are also holding open the throttle, it causes the nanny to be confused and you get the VSS and a limp mode. Just a thought.

I am pressing the brake, normally slowing down, changing to 1st gear, and give it a shot of gas. However, I have had the fault and engine shut down while I was coming to a stop off of a ramp. Not gas, just brake and gearing down. Never has the bile gone into limp mode.

Can you explain what you meant by then nanny? Or is that a nickname for the computer trying to outsmart the rider to keep him safe from himself?

Thanks for the information.

[belowme29]

I did breakdown and sent my toy to the repair shop. Told them what was happening and they started to look at it.

The figured out that my alignment was off (not sure this had something to do with it, but my tires were showing uneven wear) plus they said that the steering needed to be zeroed (which someone mentioned on here could be the problem).

The other thing that they mentioned is that the brake light (LED) that I added could be pulling too much power and the ECM (or computer) is throwing a code because it monitors how low or how high a current is being pulled from the brake light. I am not sure if I believe that pulling too much power is a problem (heard that if a light is out, it will throw a code), cause I have seen many mods that have added more brakes lights (LEDs) and they never mention having problems with having codes thrown.

So for now I have not replaced the LED light that I added to the back, but I am wondering if anyone can let me know what their experience is with adding extra brake lights - even adding a plug to connect to a trailer when it is being hauled behind the Spyder (GS or RS - I'm sure that the RT's have a special harness to add in connections for a trailer).

Thanks for everyone who shared their information - I appreciate it.

[NancysToy]

You have Miss Nanny figured out...the computer, especially in regard to the vehicle stability, braking, steering, and traction control.

Changing an RS brake lights to LEDs can cause problems when the system senses too low an amp draw. Adding additional lights to any model should have no effect. Your dealer is guessing wildly. If they can't figure it out they need to contact BRP dealer tech support forr assistance. The steering calibration could have caused a VSS fault.

[belowme29]

Changing an RS brake lights to LEDs can cause problems when the system senses too low an amp draw. Adding additional lights to any model should have no effect. Your dealer is guessing wildly. If they can't figure it out they need to contact BRP dealer tech support forr assistance. The steering calibration could have caused a VSS fault.

Thanks for the quick response - I added a 3rd brake light. My licence plate light cover went missing so instead of paying $70 for the replacement, I upgraded to a licence plate light with an additional brake light. I read about the replacement LED lights for the original brake lights and where they had to add a resistor to trick the Nanny in thinking that it still had regular light bulbs. I assumed that having a little bit more draw on the brake light system would not trip it, and the dealer was not certain about extra load but wanted to keep it as an option. He mentioned that he was going to contact BRP regarding this, but had not done so when I picked up my Spyder. We were working against COLD weather coming in - and I just beat it.

Scotty - are you a bike mechanic? Just wondering how you know so much about Spyders.

[NancysToy]

Scotty - are you a bike mechanic? Just wondering how you know so much about Spyders.

While I have worked as motorcycle, automobile, and bicycle mechanics in my youth, and built race cars and race bikes much of my life, I am just a knowledgeable enthusiast with an engineer's mind and an early owner of Spyders. I have also been fortunate to learn a lot from my BRP contacts and some talented techs. Nonetheless, I am strictly an amateur.

[belowme29]

While I have worked as motorcycle, automobile, and bicycle mechanics in my youth, and built race cars and race bikes much of my life, I am just a knowledgeable enthusiast with an engineer's mind and an early owner of Spyders. I have also been fortunate to learn a lot from my BRP contacts and some talented techs. Nonetheless, I am strictly an amateur.

Well, I appreciate your knowledge and insight.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

[spyder3rdr]

I have an 08 RS , doing the same as yours...I slow down to stop at a stop sign or a traffic light and the bike shuts off...its shut down while upshifting into 3rd gear too! have you got yours fixed yet ? what was the problem ?

[Tx web rider]

I saw you put in brake leds

I did the same and started getting random vss and dps and limp

come to find out the computer was being fooled thinking that I had a bad tail light tripping the codes

took the dealer a while to find the issue

if you put the plug in led bulbs and not the resistors then that very well could be your issue

try placing the factory incandescent bulbs and see if your issue goes away

good luck

2009 gs se5

[sabunim5]

I have changed the brake light bulbs on my 08 to the LED bulbs from Pep Boys with the built in resistors and had no Nanny problems. I have also added 2 additional LED running/brake lights to my rear end with no problems. Something else that might cause your Spyder to throw the codes you describe is the foam in the lid of your fuse/relay cover. With time the foam develops permanent dents where the items are and doesn't hold the fuses and relays as tight. This can also cause the limp mode, VSS fault and check engine etc. warnings/condition. I added a second layer of foam in 2012 and it stopped the problem. I have been pulling a trailer with my 08 almost since it was new and this has never caused any problems. I wired my own 5 prong harness into the existing Spyder wiring and have never had any issues as a result of the trailer wiring. As others have said. If BRP wants to give you a new VCM, take it; but it may be something as simple as a little piece of deteriorated foam allowing your relays and and/or fuses to be loose. Good luck

[spyder3rdr]

I finally got a call from my dealership after letting it sit outside for 6 weeks; that they have finally took the time to actually look at my Spyder and found that the ECM has gone bad . they ordered a new 1 from BRP and I can pick it up next friday ... if all goes well ... i will not be taking it back to that dealership because of lack of good service . I took it to them and told them what it was doing ... so they fixed the brakes ?!!! charged me 700 dollars and said it was ready to go ... rode it home and it shut off on me again ( therefore it wasn't fixed ) I took it back to them and after another 6 weeks they took it in the shop and found that the ECM was bad . Im sure they plan on charging me again ( I think they are still earning the 700 they charged me ) at least i'll be ryding soon and hopefully no more issues

[jtpollock]

I had the same problem on my 2012 rss on the Highway at 95 mph not a very nice place to have that happen, the dealer said it had to do with the rear brake pads needing replaced but again that not the way to let you know anyway got the pads replaced with my 30,000 minw servise and all is good now. Hope you get your’ s figured out
good luck. jtpollock