Potential to Make Some Money - Ram Air Scoops

[Bob Denman]

It'll come right out the back...

[Dan McNally]

. . . the problem is getting air in so it flows around the areas that are cooking, now.

[Bob Denman]

That's what the idea of some fans are for...
Or some hoodscoops and additional ducting....

[frenchek]

There are other options out there... Somebody posted a picture of Lamont's GS with a set of scoops over those vents.
Unfortuantely; I don't remember where he got them from...

bob--the vents that lamonster used were marine cowl vents ,available at most marine supplies, cost is dependent on size.

[hackett43]

I have been reading about these heat issues that some of you are having and some are not. So here is my theory I
worked in Manufacturing for 20 years ( Aluminum forging ). The company i worked for made, automotive parts, Motorcycle
parts,BRP Seadoo parts etc.. So when i look at the ones that are having heat issues i think about, what area they live in ?
the components on there spyder what specification range they were made at ? upper or lower range ? The reason why i
am saying this in our process with certain parts we made, even though we made them to blue print, sometimes if parts are
produce closer to a higher tolerance would cause a problems when they were put on a vehicle. Also at times we had tooling problems
that caused variation in our process therefore you may have parts that's made on low specification and some high. In manufacturing
you can be making 1 bad part out of 4 and not catching it sending it straight to the customer .

[CyncySpyder]

It will flow right out the back over the CAT just as it does now. Isn't this part of the problem that we're discussing now? The heat is building up (in some more than others) and is not escaping like your saying, and therefore causing issues with some ryders (claiming) that they are getting burns on their thighs from the high heat temps coming from around the seat, especially at the front crouch area. Pulling the bottom plates is not a solution. Not a complete solution, and while your Opinion seems logical, Lamont did his and many of us followed his lead back in 2010 when the RTs first came to market & heat complaints started, especially with the right side blow torch effect. So, many of us have removed both under-pans for over 3 years now, and I know for one, I've NOT had any electrical/mechanical issues related to this procedure. Not saying something can't, but its also smart for an owner to take precautions when doing any mod, and if you think something is subjected adversely, then take appropriate measures to mittigate such adversity, like wrapping/protecting connections that could be indangered & periodically checking them to be sure they are still holding up well. IMHO they are already open at the rear of them and there is a lot of wiring that was not set up like an open bike that can get wet and create future problems. These bikes are more complicated electronically than most and some of that is adverse to moisture. Doesn't everyone think if it were that easy (pulling the panels) to cool these down BRP would be telling dealers to do that. Without testing over time, they'd be opening themselves up to all kinds of potential issues, if something were to go wrong, so it makes sense for the manufacturer to NOT tell their dealers to do this. Like it or NOT, we all have chosen to be pioneers of this product since there were none (commercially mass produced reverse trikes) before us. Not saying its right, but in a way, WE ARE BRPs R&D team. There is actually a low pressure area on the back of the bike when running down the road that sucks air out from under the Tupperware. The problem is BRP moved some components on the 2013 preventing areas from getting enough airflow going through. The 13's are a hybrid version (so to speak) with the new frame but the old components & sadly, these are the results many are having to deal with

[CyncySpyder]

One of the concerns I have for 2013 Spyders is that if we are able to get more air under the tupperware and around the engine, we are going to need a place for that air to exit and hopefully carry away some heat. An exit for the hot air is not something I have seen discussed but feel that this should be looked at because getting more air in with no place for it to go is not going to help the heat situation. Carl

Agreed, more air flow IN is needed, but also need to be expelled. We installed a smaller fan on the engine bay vent under the left side mirror to help with this very issue & it works well. Will be installing another on the other side to double the effect.

[cuznjohn]

could wrapping the cat converter with heat tape help at all. hot air rises and the cat does get pretty hot. this is in lieu of not removing it

[Jeriatric]

could wrapping the cat converter with heat tape help at all. hot air rises and the cat does get pretty hot. this is in lieu of not removing it

How to destroy a cat. Wrap it.

[Magdave]

Difference between Experience and Opinion- Opinion seems logical, but reality isn't Especially when you are quoting out of context. I have seen all your mods and they are well done and I may try some in the future but I and others have 5yr warranties to worry about and refuse to go much beyond where we have gone without BRPs approval and agreement it will not void the warranty. I also don't want to spend gobs of money redesigning the wheel. Your last sentence is what I have been saying all along it is what we are dealing with and I actually own one and have used your pics to compare the guts. The bottom plates you refer to are totally different in the 2013 than your year including the swoop. The aftermarket support for cooling the 2013 is slim and probably will not get much better since it really is a one off. There is some logic for you

[CyncySpyder]

Difference between Experience and Opinion- Opinion seems logical, but reality isn't Especially when you are quoting out of context. I have seen all your mods and they are well done and I may try some in the future but I and others have 5yr warranties to worry about and refuse to go much beyond where we have gone without BRPs approval and agreement it will not void the warranty. I also don't want to spend gobs of money redesigning the wheel. You last sentence is what I have been saying all along it is what we are dealing with and I actually own one and have used your pics to compare the guts. The bottom plates you refer to are totally different in the 2013 than your year including the swoop. The aftermarket support for cooling the 2013 is slim and probably will not get much better since it really is a one off. There is some logic for you

Sorry, I don't know what I took out of context as I copied your statement as you wrote it and only replied to what I had experience in dealing with that may help another. In no way am I trying to argue with you or anyone, I'm just trying to offer our experience in dealing with (I know, NOT THE SAME, but somewhat) similar issues (heat) and what's been tried and what has worked for us. I realize the 2013's & prior year RTs are different, but a $15 deflector panel being removed from the bottom is NOT that major of an undertaking (at least on the 10-12 models) for most of us & it did help in most of our situations with prior year RTs.

If no one tries it with a 13 then no one will know if it would help or not. And this mod is free, except a little of your time and work to do. If you don't like the result, or need to take the unit in for servicing, then just replace the panel before heading to the shop, and they'd be none the wiser.

Like most of you out there, I too still have a warranty until 2016 on our unit to consider with the same possible implications. But I chose to do (with help from many members on here providing their guidance along the way, just like what I'm trying to do here) what I've done to make our ryde better suited for us & not sitting around and waiting for BRP to act, and that was our choice just like it is yours. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING EVERYONE SHOULD DO OR TRY THIS, I'm NOT. I'm just trying to relay information & our personal experiences to those that are seeking it. To each their own, we all have alot of money tied up in our machines, and we each must do what we think is right for us.

2013 RT-SE5 #'s 464 & 474 are the deflectors in reference:





2011 RT-SE5 #'s 43 & 44 are the deflectors in reference:

[Magdave]

Sorry, I don't know what I took out of context as I copied your statement as you wrote it and only replied to what I had experience in dealing with that may help another. In no way am I trying to argue with you or anyone, I'm just trying to offer our experience in dealing with (I know, NOT THE SAME, but somewhat) similar issues (heat) and what's been tried and what has worked for us. I realize the 2013's & prior year RTs are different, but a $15 deflector panel being removed from the bottom is NOT that major of an undertaking (at least on the 10-12 models) for most of us & it did help in most of our situations with prior year RTs.

If no one tries it with a 13 then no one will know if it would help or not. And this mod is free, except a little of your time and work to do. If you don't like the result, or need to take the unit in for servicing, then just replace the panel before heading to the shop, and they'd be none the wiser.

Like most of you out there, I too still have a warranty until 2016 on our unit to consider with the same possible implications. But I chose to do (with help from many members on here providing their guidance along the way, just like what I'm trying to do here) what I've done to make our ryde better suited for us & not sitting around and waiting for BRP to act, and that was our choice just like it is yours. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING EVERYONE SHOULD DO OR TRY THIS, I'm NOT. I'm just trying to relay information & our personal experiences to those that are seeking it. To each their own, we all have alot of money tied up in our machines, and we each must do what we think is right for us.

2013 RT-SE5 #'s 464 & 474 are the deflectors in reference:





2011 RT-SE5 #'s 43 & 44 are the deflectors in reference:

I hear ya and appreciate your efforts you have done some good work but we do not have the under swoop plate that previous years do and I am hesitant to butcher it (swoop)up.I actually think some of the excess heat is due to the new swoop inducing heat into the engine area.I would take the bottom plate (if it were there ) off that in a second. The can fan does not fit a 13. The interior issues are something imho BRP should be trying to figure out. Some components have moved but not that much so I really believe it may be a programing or sensor issue. Why does the ambient temp always read higher than it actually is. The sensor on my truck is at the same height and shows the correct temp out side. BRP's shows 5+ degrees hotter which obviously affects the mapping. Maybe it needs moved to a cooler spot. I will continue to look at options but after looking at my frame and skid plate I am hesitant to expose the wires and engine to the damage those have received in 2k miles. I have the Green Manual so I see everything you showed. In all reality the ball is in BRPs court and all indication tell me the are trying to hit the ball, maybe not as soon as we like , but they are trying. Thanks for you insightful input.

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted by OldCowboy
In the vast majority of states, possibly all with the exception of California, motorcycles are not checked for EPA mandated pollution controls. This means these states could not care less if you remove the catalytic converter or add a Power Commander or Juice Box to richen your mixture. It would be very hard for BRP to argue that an overly rich mixture caused any type of engine damage.
So your solution is to ignore federal law and possibly void the warranty?

Absolutely. Federal laws on emission controls only apply to manufacturers and dealers, not to owners. The only way any emission control removal is a legal problem is if the state performs emission inspections. I seriously doubt that by enriching the mixture, BRP could void your warranty, since it is lean mixtures, rather than rich ones which damage a motor. But if you think that's a problem, don't do it.



There is no reliable poll that indicates '13 Spyders are having a significant heat problem. Spyderlovers is not a representative subgroup of all Spyder owners.
Is any poll 100% reliable no but they do represent the average most of the time

Polls are only reliable if the sampled group is representative of the population as a whole. As I noted previously, Spyderlovers is not a representative sample of all Spyder owners. Polls only represent the average if the sampled group represents the average. Ask Mitt Romney's campaign what happens when your sampled group doesn't represent the average.



At least one of the "bashers" appears to have solved the heat problems, yet continues to berate BRP and other '13 Spyder owners who don't have heat problems.
I suppose you mean me. I haven't "fixed" anything. I have controlled the symptoms of a deeper problem and may be causing others. Every action has a reaction

Yes, I absolutely meant you. We can argue over whether "...controlled the symptoms..." equals "fixed," but until your "solution" fails, you have no longer have heat problems. Every action has a reaction and in your case the reaction was to reduce under tupperware heat. Despite this, you continue to bash BRP and berate those of us who don't have problems. As someone else noted, you appear to be eaten up with anger over this to the point you're willing to verbally take a swing at anyone who disagrees with you.



I fully understand some owners have heat problems. But when the post's sole purpose is to bash BRP and all '13 Spyders and Spyder owners who don't have problems, it contributes to the problem rather than to the solution.
As I posted elsewhere if you really think your bike does not have a problem take the recall tinfoil off and prove it to us. That would actually be helpful to prove that some are actually perfect. Are you willing to do that?

I can absolutely think of no reason to do this. Least of all to make you happy.


Rather than berating each other, how about working together to find a resolution?
And your addition to that is...berating others?

I think it's pretty clear that you are not interested in working with others to find a solution. You are looking for a fix, to your specifications, at no cost to you, from BRP. Anything else is unacceptable to you. And as a result, you will continue to trash BRP and those who, like me, don't agree with you 100%. And that's unfortunate because you seem to have arrived at a solution that benefits all of us.

...

[Bob Denman]

Guys....
I'd much rather see us all attacking the problem...

[OldCowboy]

Guys....
I'd much rather see us all attacking the problem...

As would I.

[Bob Denman]

Has anybody given further thought to mounting a scoop under the belly of the bike? A low-profile hoodscoop wouldn't impact ground clearance too much,,, Since it'd be hidden; a simple piece of aluminum could be bent to whatever shape one wanted to try...

[OldCowboy]

Has anybody given further thought to mounting a scoop under the belly of the bike? A low-profile hoodscoop wouldn't impact ground clearance too much,,, Since it'd be hidden; a simple piece of aluminum could be bent to whatever shape one wanted to try...

I think any scoop under the bike would either be too small to be of much use or so low as to get ripped off at the first good bump. I know it's not unusual for me to scrape the bottom of the bumpskid about once a week, so anything that low or lower would probably be ripped off.

Actually, Magdave alleviated his perceived heat problems with judicious use of reflective tape and foam backed aluminum foil. He describes this in post #119 here. At one time there were some really good pictures, but they are no longer there.

[frenchek]

Has anybody given further thought to mounting a scoop under the belly of the bike? A low-profile hoodscoop wouldn't impact ground clearance too much,,, Since it'd be hidden; a simple piece of aluminum could be bent to whatever shape one wanted to try...

not that I want to get in this battle, but: any thought to putting the "scoops" over the existing vent holes under the mirrors and putting the fan or fans at the bottom rear of the machine to pull the air thru ? it would seem that if you put the fans in the vents under the mirrors and push the air out : your pulling the hot air from the motor and exhaust more toward the operator. just a thought--I am by no means a mechanic or engineer, just an old retired carpenter !!!

[Bob Denman]

That's where this thread started...

[ravseren]

I haven't figured out how to post a new post, so I'm trying tyhis. BRP had my dealer install the new scoops on my 2012 RT LTD on Saturday as an accommodation to me at no cost. I can't say enough GOOD things about BRP. They addressed my problem with no trouble, took care of me as well as any company could, and my problem is solved. I am a very happy camper.
Seth

[Illinois Boy]

Wow... this is an old thread you have dug-up.

Coming direct from the horse's mouth, you are correct in that BRP will provide any RT owner free scoops installed at no cost if they go to their dealer and request them due to heat issues.

Some believe they have to pay for the scoops; or have been told by dealers they have to buy them. This is not true. BRP pays for them, plus for the installation. If a dealer states you have to buy them, then move on to another dealer, unless you want to push the issue with them.

(This info is not related to 2013 models, which have had a recall to receive more than just the scoops.)

A final point... when re-reading through this thread there was much speculation as to whether scoops would help. I can attest, they do help.

They do not fully resolve the heat issue; but heat is decreased with the added air-flow to the engine when moving. They also provide an outlet for hot air to escape upwards when at a stop. They are definitely worth having put on.

[cyclelover63]

Wow... this is an old thread you have dug-up.

Coming direct from the horse's mouth, you are correct in that BRP will provide any RT owner free scoops installed at no cost if they go to their dealer and request them due to heat issues.

Some believe they have to pay for the scoops; or have been told by dealers they have to buy them. This is not true. BRP pays for them, plus for the installation. If a dealer states you have to buy them, then move on to another dealer, unless you want to push the issue with them.

(This info is not related to 2013 models, which have had a recall to receive more than just the scoops.)

A final point... when re-reading through this thread there was much speculation as to whether scoops would help. I can attest, they do help.

They do not fully resolve the heat issue; but heat is decreased with the added air-flow to the engine when moving. They also provide an outlet for hot air to escape upwards when at a stop. They are definitely worth having put on.

Is this in writing anywhere?..They will install scoops on a 2012 free of charge?

[Pandy]

When Pyder was down with additional limp mode problems, I mentioned to my dealer that I would like the Heat Management mod installed ( I offered to share cost) and BRP absorbed the entire cost as a warranty item. At least that is what appeared on the invoice. Oh, Pyder is a 2011 RTS with about 56K.
Patrick

[Illinois Boy]

Is this in writing anywhere?..They will install scoops on a 2012 free of charge?

I do not have it in writing; but it is true. Go to your dealer and tell them you want the air-scoops installed because of heat on your machine.

Do not let your dealer tell you otherwise. Force them to call on the issue. If they do not; then find another dealer. There are plenty that know about this program.

There may be a time limit on how long BRP will offer this, so do not wait long.

(On another note; were you at Potosi's Beer Festival a few weeks back? We stopped-by that day and ate at the brewery's pub.)